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now's she's on the guilt trip to pay more...

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  • now's she's on the guilt trip to pay more...

    So, I think she knows she'll lose in court as she wants me to keep paying for my 19 y/o who's out of high school.

    She's tossing out the guilt trip thing "I'm not going to force him (my 19yo) to work when he doesn't want to yet.. and even if he gets a job, he needs to save for school. It wouldn't be fair to make him pay room & board. And when he sees mom in a financial 'hardship' due to lack of CS for him, he'll know it's all your fault (meaning me). How can you call yourself a 'father' when you're planning to treat your son this way ('force him to work'), etc."


    I'm sure some of you have dealt with this before... any suggestions?
    I have court coming up later this year to on all this and s7 issues for a younger child (she thinks 'all' extracurricular activities qualify as s7 expenses) and this court trip is going to cost me a $1300 plane ticket, and 3 days of missed wages. She's really trying to hit me with the guilt trip now and I'm starting to side with her -- but I also know she's extremely greedy and hiding her own income to say she's in a financial hardship to try for sympathy. My 19 y/o has opportunity to work - full time at a really good wage too (he's uncertain as to if he'd like the work though).

    What would you do? And any other suggestions? Essentially if I don't keep paying, she'll find a way to bring that between my sons and me and turn me into the 'deadbeat' dad who's as good as dead to the kids.

    (as an fyi, she quit her well paying job to become self employed and show a business loss each and every month since the start of the year. she claims she's a 'full time student' again too - already has over $150k in student loan debt).

  • #2
    Are you in Ontario? (Why $1300 plane ticket?)
    You say she is showing a business loss. When is the last time you shared full income disclosure?

    Comment


    • #3
      Every parent has a financial responsibility to provide for their children. With saying that, Section 7 expenses have to be reasonable. For example, you have to come across in your response showing that you are willing to negotiate and your childrens well being is of paramount importance but you are concerned of comments made to your children having a negative impact. You can also request a home study to be done before the court date.

      My ex from my first marriage had an ex wife that was trying to take him for every penny. She refused to work, volunteered her time and would the daughter in daycare, signed her up for horseback riding lessons to make him pay for it, etc. In the end, I had suggested for each parent to be able to sign the child up for one thing per year but that it had to be receive prior approval from the other parent. We signed her up for things like swimming, soccor but paid 100% of the cost. The obligation was him pay 80%, she had to pay 20%. School supplies are factored into the child support payments as well so she can't come after you for that. As well, child support is supposed to cover the cost of food for the child so if she tried getting more money to pay for school lunches, that is to be paid out of the child support.

      Now, if you live farther away and incur a cost for seeing your kids, why can't you ask to have the cost of flights/travel each year deducted from any section 7 expenses? Or in turn, you are not seeking renumeration from her towards the cost of flights for your kids to see you but she covers the section 7 expenses, otherwise, the cost of travel for the kids to see you each year gets deducted from the section 7 expenses and she probably still wouldn't get extra.

      Another point, you are concerned about the psychological impact on your children from your ex saying negative things about you and request for an impartial person, ie home study to report on that impact

      Comment


      • #4
        By the way, if your oldest is 19 and not in school or have any intention of registering, child support ceases at 18. The financial obligation ends as they are considered an adult

        Comment


        • #5
          I'd state that I am not forcing the child to anything they don't want to do. That you are just abiding by the laws and guidelines provide as you too must also survive.

          And that if she has any financial issues, maybe she should revisit some the decisions she's recently made that have impacted her income and that you should not be responsible for her poor planning.

          She's made her bed, let her lie in it.

          Comment


          • #6
            Well, hold on.... Mcr - How do YOU feel about supporting the 19 year old? We aren't talking about supporting X, we are talking about supporting your son, aren't we?

            Does your SON need supporting while he saves for post-secondary? Is there a way to support HIM directly? Or do you feel he should be getting a job and supporting himself, and if his mother decides to let him live at her house, it's on her?

            Comment


            • #7
              While child support is for the child, it is really for the parent to afford the child. The law says what needs to be paid and for how long. MCR has done that. The other parent has benefited from it all along, enough so to give up her paying career and become self employed taking a loss.

              MCR can still give money directly to his son as need be, but he has no obligation to pay the other parent anymore.

              You don't keep paying cs longer than need be because you want to support your son.

              Comment


              • #8
                No longer a child of the marriage. No brainer. If/when the child decides to go to school full time, the issue can be revisited at that point in time.

                Though I would put some pretty strict conditions on it myself

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by mcr View Post
                  She's tossing out the guilt trip thing "I'm not going to force him (my 19yo) to work when he doesn't want to yet.. and even if he gets a job, he needs to save for school. It wouldn't be fair to make him pay room & board. And when he sees mom in a financial 'hardship' due to lack of CS for him, he'll know it's all your fault (meaning me). How can you call yourself a 'father' when you're planning to treat your son this way ('force him to work'), etc."
                  MCR, a great book that you may want to consider getting to help you deal with this kind clear projection of blame is:

                  "It's All Your Fault"
                  By William Eddy

                  It's All Your Fault!: 12 Tips For Managing People Who Blame Others For Everything: Bill Eddy: 9780981509037: Amazon.com: Books

                  Considering the fact you provided what is alledgedly a quote from the other parent and it contains the statement "It's All Your Fault" you may want to read up on how to deal with this kind of high-conflict behaviour.

                  An article written by Mr. Eddy that in summary covers the major elements of the book:

                  Bill Eddy

                  Good Luck!
                  Tayken

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Qrious: I would help support my 19 year old if I needed too. I'm in a financial position where I could, so this isn't about my financial struggles anymore. However, sending $$$$ o the X "for him as CS" is to give her an extra paycheck which she wants. She's greedy. My son has opportunity for full time work at a VERY good rate of pay. He's not taking it though. I don't want to be the ass, but he is 19 and out of school. I don't see a reason why he shouldn't be more self sufficient and independent. He could work FT and save quite a bit for school. I know. I'd pay him to support him IF he needed the help. However, he is going to continue to live with the X and that is where the problem is. She wont charge him room & board. She'll continue to 'support him' and expects me to do the same, otherwise I'm the no-good parent who's abandoning his 19yo son in this 'time of need'. As far as plane ticket, I came to Alberta to work in oil industry, but have permanent residence in Ontario. I haven't thought of offsetting s7 costs vs my trips back to see the kids - not worried about that. It's the gouging the X is doing(trying) now that I make more $.

                    All others: great replies again... you folks are such a great help. I can certainly present the facts and don't see not having a 'win' at court - it's what happens with this guilt routine she's pulling and what effect (if she makes it known) it'll have on the kids when she words it as I'm "abandoning" them as soon as I can (based on law).

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Your son is 19... Time to be an adult.

                      IMO it's school or work and if he chooses school I would support him. If he doesn't that's an ADULT decision and he needs to face ADULT consequences.

                      Stop paying mom. If he needs help you can certainly help him out not your ex.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by mcr View Post
                        Qrious: I would help support my 19 year old if I needed too. I'm in a financial position where I could, so this isn't about my financial struggles anymore. However, sending $$$$ o the X "for him as CS" is to give her an extra paycheck which she wants. She's greedy. My son has opportunity for full time work at a VERY good rate of pay. He's not taking it though. I don't want to be the ass, but he is 19 and out of school. I don't see a reason why he shouldn't be more self sufficient and independent. He could work FT and save quite a bit for school. I know. I'd pay him to support him IF he needed the help. However, he is going to continue to live with the X and that is where the problem is. She wont charge him room & board. She'll continue to 'support him' and expects me to do the same, otherwise I'm the no-good parent who's abandoning his 19yo son in this 'time of need'. As far as plane ticket, I came to Alberta to work in oil industry, but have permanent residence in Ontario. I haven't thought of offsetting s7 costs vs my trips back to see the kids - not worried about that. It's the gouging the X is doing(trying) now that I make more $.
                        Well then... I say kick the boy in the bottom and tell him to get a job, and let X know that if SHE chooses to support him until he attends post-secondary (or not) then that's ON HER. I would also let son know that you're there for him when he needs it.... But right now, he can get a j-o-b.

                        Thanks for the rest of the story. I see your point now.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Your CS obligation to the ex ends when the kid is 18 and not enrolled in school. After that, he is considered an adult who is capable of supporting himself. His choice to not work and your ex's choice to let him continue to live with her are their own adult choices and nothing to do with you. If you want to continue to support him, you could send an amount of money directly to him. Then your ex can choose if she wants him to contribute to her household with it by charging him rent or something.

                          Or you can offer that he come live with you. You wouldn't get CS either, but maybe you could be a better influence on him than she has been and convince him to start working or going to school again.

                          Just stay in touch with your son, let him know you are there for him, and that now that he is an adult, he might have to work at jobs he doesn't like because he has to eat. He doesn't want to work because he might not like it? That's a stupid reason. How about he tries it first to find out? Even if he doesn't like it, he may find that the good income is enough to make him overlook that. As long as you have ongoing contact with him, you can help him understand the situation.

                          Comment

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