Where does she find these suckers?!?

[Pursuinghappiness]

Anyone with any sense doesn't take a divorced person's account of their marriage as the gospel truth. We're all looking back through the filters of the present day and we're all trying to construct a narrative to explain how we ended up where we are now, which is somewhere no one ever intends to end up. I certainly wouldn't expect anyone to take my own account of my divorce as the unquestioned truth (which is one reason I don't share it widely). Heck, even I still don't entirely understand why it all went down so badly.

I absolutely believe everything my partner says about his divorce.

However, I know that its his perspective.

In marriage, perspective is often truth.

His ex-wife's perspective on the marriage is much different.

In general, you can always ask two people about a past event and will often get two different versions. It doesn't necessarily mean that someone is being deceptive.

[stripes]

I "traded up" too, to a partner who is kind, smart, self-aware and affectionate, although not flawless. Part of the reason I was able to trade up is because I did a lot of self-examination after my marriage ended and tried to identify what role my own actions or inactions might have played. As a result, I've come closer to being the kind of person who can be in the kind of relationship I want.

I know my partner played a part in the demise of his own marriage, and he owns it too. But I do believe that he tried to do the right thing throughout, even if he didn't always succeed (And yes, I've seen his own psych reports!). (I've also had enough exposure to his ex that I can arrive at the independent conclusion that she's just a bit "special"; I don't have to take his word for it).

I think I've become a better person as a result of the divorce, which is not to say it wasn't horrifically awful to live through. And I still don't like my ex at all, and I don't think I ever will, which is unfortunate because at one point I hoped we could someday be friends, before the ugliness of the divorce really got under way.

But he's just background noise now. Sometimes it's louder than other times, but it doesn't mean that much any more.

[Pursuinghappiness]

I "traded up" too, to a partner who is kind, smart, self-aware and affectionate, although not flawless. Part of the reason I was able to trade up is because I did a lot of self-examination after my marriage ended and tried to identify what role my own actions or inactions might have played. As a result, I've come closer to being the kind of person who can be in the kind of relationship I want.

I know my partner played a part in the demise of his own marriage, and he owns it too. But I do believe that he tried to do the right thing throughout, even if he didn't always succeed (And yes, I've seen his own psych reports!). (I've also had enough exposure to his ex that I can arrive at the independent conclusion that she's just a bit "special"; I don't have to take his word for it).

I think I've become a better person as a result of the divorce, which is not to say it wasn't horrifically awful to live through. And I still don't like my ex at all, and I don't think I ever will, which is unfortunate because at one point I hoped we could someday be friends, before the ugliness of the divorce really got under way.

But he's just background noise now. Sometimes it's louder than other times, but it doesn't mean that much any more.

Well said and its pretty much the same for me too.

To the OP, it may take some time but I hope you get to this place too. I know its a lot tougher when you're unfairly financially indebted to an ex...so I understand your frustration and venting. Sorry for hijacking your thread the last few posts.

[Straittohell]

"Moving forward, its important to own your mistakes...to figure out how try to avoid them in the future...and to stop blaming everyone else for the choices you decided to make."

That's so funny. When I confronted my ex about the affair and asked her what I had done to provoke it, she sobbed, and said, (I'm not kidding) "Nothing. You have been a model husband and father. I don't know why I did this to you." To this day, neither one of us, or anybody that we know, can think of anything that I did. I was attentive, put her first, carried more than my fair share of the parenting and the chores, and doted on her. The bottom line is that she got bored with our family life, and became entitled and selfish. My only "mistake" was not catching the affair sooner, because I was too busy trusting her.

I find that phrase "own your own mistakes" when it comes to divorce to be extraordinarily disingenuous. You know what? Sometimes, it IS somebody else's fault, and it IS okay to be bitter and angry that you did everything right, and still got fucked over. That doesn't make someone petty, that doesn't make someone short-sighted, and it doesn't automatically meant that they could have made 'better choices' to somehow prevent their marriage from decaying, it just makes them.... human.

Remember the very point and start of this thread? It was a rant thread, and the original poster ranted, and a bunch of us are ranting with him. If some of us want to make generalizations based on anecdotal experiences, that's our choice. We don't need snide, sanctimonious commentary directed at us that basically says "better luck next time, just find a better person and don't let them do terrible things to you". As I said before, no one in their right mind would say that a woman deserves to be raped for dressing sexy, so why do we feel the need to say asinine things like that to people who have been wronged by their exes?

[arabian]

Yeah I was too busy financially bailing our company out, having a hysterectomy, entertaining my ex's large extended family (26 minimum people over for dinner) and I missed the employee's wife (who is now my ex's g/f) helping my ex hide assets ...

I'm sure I wasn't a very nice person at the time when I kicked my husband's ass to the curb. Oh yes, I have learned from my mistakes and take ownership in the demise of my marriage - I should have booted the fuck-head out a decade earlier.

[Pursuinghappiness]

"Moving forward, its important to own your mistakes...to figure out how try to avoid them in the future...and to stop blaming everyone else for the choices you decided to make."

That's so funny. When I confronted my ex about the affair and asked her what I had done to provoke it, she sobbed, and said, (I'm not kidding) "Nothing. You have been a model husband and father. I don't know why I did this to you." To this day, neither one of us, or anybody that we know, can think of anything that I did. I was attentive, put her first, carried more than my fair share of the parenting and the chores, and doted on her. The bottom line is that she got bored with our family life, and became entitled and selfish. My only "mistake" was not catching the affair sooner, because I was too busy trusting her.

I find that phrase "own your own mistakes" when it comes to divorce to be extraordinarily disingenuous. You know what? Sometimes, it IS somebody else's fault, and it IS okay to be bitter and angry that you did everything right, and still got fucked over. That doesn't make someone petty, that doesn't make someone short-sighted, and it doesn't automatically meant that they could have made 'better choices' to somehow prevent their marriage from decaying, it just makes them.... human.

Remember the very point and start of this thread? It was a rant thread, and the original poster ranted, and a bunch of us are ranting with him. If some of us want to make generalizations based on anecdotal experiences, that's our choice. We don't need snide, sanctimonious commentary directed at us that basically says "better luck next time, just find a better person and don't let them do terrible things to you". As I said before, no one in their right mind would say that a woman deserves to be raped for dressing sexy, so why do we feel the need to say asinine things like that to people who have been wronged by their exes?

Sorry, I didn't realize you were the only person in the world who never made a mistake in marriage. My apologies.

I myself made lots of mistakes. The most major one was marrying the person that I did. The second being that I stayed for too long once I realized we never had a chance. We had very few long-term compatibility factors and he was driven by things I still don't understand and wasn't interested in being in a relationship which involved personal sacrifice or compromise.

By the way, my ex husband would tell you that he was the perfect husband and was/is the perfect father. Seriously, he chants it like a mantra whenever he's confronted by anyone who would tell him differently. To this day, despite the fact I asked for a divorce for 3 years...he tells anyone that will listen that I blindsided him with wanting a divorce.

As I said, the truth about one's experience in marriage is a matter of perception.

[Links17]

My partner isn't at my home to answer the question but he absolutely trusted my version of events. I was as self-deprecating in my assessment of the things I had done wrong during marriage as I was critical of my ex. I'm under zero illusion that my divorce was all my ex's fault.

That's what he tells you for sex.... if you think he is gonna tell you he believe you 100% one of you is stupid or lying (stripes said as much)

He also has read every single court document that I have. So he's well aware of every affidavit that my ex put out accusing me of everything under the sun. He also read my psychological assessment that was done for my custody evaluation and my financial statements. So he's aware of my mental and financial state.

Do I think he looked at me skeptically...quite the opposite.

Umm... after the full evaluation I am sure there was nothing else to know...

In reverse, I watched him go through his divorce. He's very much like me in that the first thing he did when he started having major marital issues was to look in the mirror to figure out what he was doing wrong.

Meh, your anecdotes

Again, I noticed (although you tried to cover your misogynistic tracks in this post) you directed your original comment at women. You didn't say that women always look at divorced men with a skeptical eye and the reason for that is the same reason for most of the things you say.

The thread was rant of a guy about his wife, because I am honest when I posted my clarification I realized women will be skeptical to but generally men have more reason to be skeptical because they get burned harder in divorce.

I find it very interesting that during my absence from this site, you haven't changed one iota in your constant misogynist comments. Does it ever cross your mind that maybe you should re-evaluate your bitter mindset?

Well the world doesn't revolve around you....

I'm actually really not bitter - I am literally smiling while type this with how deluded you are about your new spouse and your new relationship - I find it completely psycho that you think rainbows come out of this butt and this time is gonna be so much better. I am sure however many years ago you were saying this type of stuff about your ex.

I would agree that I traded up. I found a guy who is kind, a good father and who I'm actually compatible with. I did a very poor job of that the first time. My trading up has zero to do with money. I have my own and pay for at least half of everything in my relationship. I don't need a man for money...never have...never will.

Maybe you don't - but statistically many women are poor when they aren't married and their best chance at a non-poverty life is getting remarried. Also when I said you traded up I was specifically referring to the monetary aspect because that is all you mentioned - now you backtracked you materialistic ways... I see what you did there..

My partner is a FAIR guy all the time. He feels as though his ex DESERVES the money he pays her. They didn't go to court. They mediated the divorce because he admitted that was he able to excel at his career because she did most of the child rearing activities. She also helped to keep the household running smoothly. Something that's very difficult to do when you're working and travelling for work. Personally, I believe all adult people in a marriage should be self-supporting or at least be able to go back to a career...but that's me. His choice with his ex-wife was to allow her to stay home while he worked and after divorce, he owned the consequences of that choice. A lot of men do the same.

Exactly, he left her and took responsibility. In a a lot of the cases mentioned here wives do crazy ass things and then go to court demanding to be paid for it.... the ethical back flips we've done as a society to enable them is a detriment to our civility.

lol. What magazine were these articles published in "Misogynists Monthly"? Again, your comments do not apply to me. There were certain times in my marriage where I made more than my spouse. I wasn't resentful of him...nor was I resentful of having to support my family. My divorce had zero to do with money...it was about the lack of an affectionate, respectful relationship with my ex-spouse.

Maybe not in YOUR case - however here are links to the cases in point.
Higher-Paid Women Less-Married, More-Divorced - Bloomberg

There others...

Maybe dudes like you say it to each other. I've never heard that expression.

What's Mine Is Mine and What's Yours Is Ours|Christie Russell

Redirect Notice

Redirect Notice



there are others..

[arabian]

Last Fall, on a rare occasion when I spoke briefly with my ex, he made a statement which caught me by surprise. He said "so where did we go wrong." I seriously was quite shocked by the question and all I could think of was to say "well we both erred in many ways but the icing on the cake was the "skank" that you took up with." I'm sure that my ex has his own rendition of our 30 yrs together. We couldn't agree on things when we were together and we certainly won't agree on anything now.

I do know that I was married to a very negative, sarcastic man. He wasn't that way when I married him but he slowly developed quite an arrogant manner. Shortly after we separated I was surprised to hear of all the stories he had made up about himself and our marriage to people who barely knew us. He was quite the braggart - particularly when it came to our business. He actually went around telling people that I was dying of cancer the last year we were married - this was the reason I lost my marbles and divorced him. Nice eh?

We'll I'm still alive and well and fortunately did not have a brush with cancer (that I'm aware of LOL).

I do know that people change. Marriages evolved one way or another. How does one measure the success of a marriage anyhow? Years together? Number of children? Finances?

I think if you can still look at the person you are with, many years later, and really truly respect that person then you have both done something right.

[Straittohell]

"Sorry, I didn't realize you were the only person in the world who never made a mistake in marriage. My apologies. I myself made lots of mistakes. The most major one was marrying the person that I did. The second being that I stayed for too long once I realized we never had a chance. We had very few long-term compatibility factors and he was driven by things I still don't understand and wasn't interested in being in a relationship which involved personal sacrifice or compromise.

By the way, my ex husband would tell you that he was the perfect husband and was/is the perfect father. Seriously, he chants it like a mantra whenever he's confronted by anyone who would tell him differently. To this day, despite the fact I asked for a divorce for 3 years...he tells anyone that will listen that I blindsided him with wanting a divorce."


------------------------------

I'm sure I made mistakes, but none that warranted her doing what she did. Funny that you made a snide comment about mistakes to imply that I believe myself blameless, and then list your own major mistake as simply having picked the wrong guy. Pot calling kettle once again...

I didn't have to claim that I was a perfect husband and father, my ex pretty much did, and continued to bemoan the fact that she had critically injured our marriage for quite some time afterwards. That's not ego, it's just plain truth.

Bottom line is that this is a rant thread, people are ranting, and you're trying to minimize their rant by claiming they must have made some choice that inflicted their misfortune on them. Sad.

[arabian]

BTW - many men and women do just fine financially until before get married. They pool their respective resources and start the "nesting" process. This process takes alot of money (houses, kids, vans) and often one or the other have to make sacrifices. For some that is giving up a job to stay home with kids. For others the sacrifice is not taking the promotions which come along with lots of out-of-town travel. Others have to become quasi-gigolo's or exotic dancers to entertain their spouses business clients. Everyone, at some point in time, makes a sacrifice. The question becomes how long did they sacrifice and how lasting is the effect of their sacrifice on their ability to get along in the future after divorce? It's not an exact science but at least there is a legal system in place which attempts to address inequities (perceived or real).

[Rioe]

"Moving forward, its important to own your mistakes...to figure out how try to avoid them in the future...and to stop blaming everyone else for the choices you decided to make."

That's so funny. When I confronted my ex about the affair and asked her what I had done to provoke it, she sobbed, and said, (I'm not kidding) "Nothing. You have been a model husband and father. I don't know why I did this to you." To this day, neither one of us, or anybody that we know, can think of anything that I did. I was attentive, put her first, carried more than my fair share of the parenting and the chores, and doted on her. The bottom line is that she got bored with our family life, and became entitled and selfish. My only "mistake" was not catching the affair sooner, because I was too busy trusting her.

I find that phrase "own your own mistakes" when it comes to divorce to be extraordinarily disingenuous. You know what? Sometimes, it IS somebody else's fault, and it IS okay to be bitter and angry that you did everything right, and still got fucked over. That doesn't make someone petty, that doesn't make someone short-sighted, and it doesn't automatically meant that they could have made 'better choices' to somehow prevent their marriage from decaying, it just makes them.... human.

Remember the very point and start of this thread? It was a rant thread, and the original poster ranted, and a bunch of us are ranting with him. If some of us want to make generalizations based on anecdotal experiences, that's our choice. We don't need snide, sanctimonious commentary directed at us that basically says "better luck next time, just find a better person and don't let them do terrible things to you". As I said before, no one in their right mind would say that a woman deserves to be raped for dressing sexy, so why do we feel the need to say asinine things like that to people who have been wronged by their exes?

Yep, that was my mistake too! Too busy trusting my ex to realize he was lying to me. I completely own my honesty, my trustworthiness, my innocence, my naivety and my faith in humanity. The way I was deceived and manipulated throughout pretty much my whole marriage was all on me. I own it. I am sure I would have been better at communicating with him if I had been able to recognize that nearly everything he told me was a lie. Our marriage would have been so much better if I had understood that he was the only important person in it, the only one whose needs mattered.

I'm still trying to find a balance point between becoming bitter and cynical about relationships, and repeating the same mistakes.

[arabian]

Had I stayed with my ex I'd likely be cleaning the kitchen up right now after having made him a beautiful gourmet dinner. Sure I would have gotten a round of golf in at the private golf course and I would have been fretting over the fall cleanup of our beautiful home.

Today I took simple pleasure in spending some of the money I received in SS this month in purchasing a few hundred dollars of energy-saving light bulbs. I can sit here on the computer with a glass or two of wine, bed unmade, place a disorganised mess and listen to whatever I want, as loud as I want, on the stereo.

Had I stayed with my ex I would be continuing to live the life of servitude to which I had become oh so accustomed to for 30 fucking years.

So he has his skank and I do wish him well. I hope he stays healthy for at least another 10 years.

[Janibel]

I find it somewhat depressing that here in a divorce forum of all places, there should exist such a lack of empathy to the plight of others. The OP clearly stating that this is a RANT. Lately I've noticed an ever increasing lack of common courtesy amongst ODF members.

Why do some posters feel the need to critique a person's honest feelings - they're not debatable, this is not case law to be argued over. A prevailing better-than-thou attitude keeps coming across over and over again, WTH?

I was married for over 28 years. Am I bitter over how things ended? Yes! of course I am and I don't feel the need to justify that. Do I blame the Ex, yes I do, he was a violent alcoholic and made my life a living hell! I have trouble accepting this whole NO FAULT system, many of us (male or female) have been seriously taken advantage of by our Ex's, lied to, cheated on and financially swindled! Don't bother suggesting that I need therapy, I'm not the one who's crazy. My problem was trusting a person who was not deserving of my trust.

To the original poster, I understand your frustration, it can be soul crushing at times ... you're better off without a person like that. To those who feel that you are bitter and lacking 'their zenish wisdom' in all things divorce related ... meh.

[Pursuinghappiness]

Meh, your anecdotes

My ancedotes simply are to contradict your idiotic, misogynist generalizations. Your women-bashing spew doesn't apply to me or a lot of women.

And your man-bashing spew about how all men think the same way about women and their ex-spouses doesn't apply either.

That's what he tells you for sex.... if you think he is gonna tell you he believe you 100% one of you is stupid or lying (stripes said as much)

a) I don't put conditions on sex and b) my partner certainly doesn't need me for sex. He's an attractive, brilliant, successful guy. If he wanted to get laid, lying to me is not required. Another typical hate-filled comment.

I'm actually really not bitter - I am literally smiling while type this with how deluded you are about your new spouse and your new relationship - I find it completely psycho that you think rainbows come out of this butt and this time is gonna be so much better. I am sure however many years ago you were saying this type of stuff about your ex.

I have zero illusions about the uniqueness of my fiancé. My relationship and feelings towards my ex were another mistake I made. I didn't feel the way I should have about him when I married him.

You saying you're not bitter has me laughing...lol, rrrreally?

Also when I said you traded up I was specifically referring to the monetary aspect because that is all you mentioned - now you backtracked you materialistic ways... I see what you did there..

You mentioned that trading up indicated success...and although that is true of my new partner, his material success isn't the reason that I'd consider myself trading up. I see what you did there.

Basically your whole modus operandi is to find anything that supports your warped view of reality based on the bad marital experience specific to you and apply that reality to all women. Well your misogynistic rants don't apply to me...and they don't apply to a lot of women that work hard for their families and aren't on the planet to financially rape an ex spouse during a marital breakdown.

What I really find amusing about you is how you won't even own the misogynistic nonsense you say. You say something insulting and degrading to women then immediately turn tail when confronted. That is seriously cowardly in my opinion.

[standing on the sidelines]

What I really find amusing about you is how you won't even own the misogynistic nonsense you say. You say something insulting and degrading to women then immediately turn tail when confronted. That is seriously cowardly in my opinion.

he just does what typical bullies do. When someone stands up to them they don't know what to do and, like you said, turn tail and run.