Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

LEGAL AID gone wild

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • LEGAL AID gone wild

    The good thing LEGAL AID ONTARIO helps low income people defend themselves in Court.

    The bad is when Legal Aid Ontario goes overboard:

    In 2011 ONSC 7476 (CanLII)<SUP id=cite_ref-6 class=reference>[6]</SUP> the Honourable Mr. Justice Pazaratz issued a 74 paragraph cost award of $11,500 against a mother whom was funded by Legal Aid Ontario. In the case the Honourable Mr. Justice Pazaratz identified a common pattern of behaviour unaddressed by the Ontario Ombudsman and Legal Aid Ontario:
    58. The dynamics on this file are all too common, and cry out for judicial awareness. In a troubled economy we are seeing more self-represented parties in Family Court, and certainly more people with limited finances. Inevitably, these ingredients create greater strains on the administration of justice. Combined with limited judicial resources, the need to encourage settlement and discourage inappropriate behaviour by litigants has never been more pressing.
    59. But combining a “free lawyer” with a perceived immunity from costs is a dangerous mix. Dangerous for opposing litigants. Dangerous for children, whose lives are needlessly disrupted by bitter and unnecessary litigation. And dangerous for a Family Court system whose resources are already strained.
    60. In the case at bar, the Applicant conducted herself as if her Legal Aid certificate amounted to a blank cheque – unlimited resources which most unrepresented Respondents would be hard-pressed to match. A scheduled 3-4 day trial turned into 17 days, largely because the Applicant fought every issue and pursued every dubious allegation, to the bitter end. She appeared to make up evidence and allegations as she went along. She defied court orders directly impacting on the child, even while the trial was underway. There have to be consequences. Either we sanction this irresponsible and destructive behaviour, or we invite more of the same.


    NOW

    Legal Aid is taking any person that claims "domestic abuse " and represents them before there is even a Court Action.

    In effect a taxpayer funded agency with unlimited litigation funding will win against some poor sod who just wants to see the kid(s).

    The poor sod will have to pay the Legal Aid Ontario Court Costs when the sod eventually loses

    There is nothing in the "LEGAL AID ACT" about getting separating couples to deal with matters themselves to avoid Court as in Family Law. Legal Aid Ontario has a scorched earth policy in Family Matters

    Although LEGAL AID ONTARIO has free mediators for there clients to use and patting themselves on the back for their latest initiative below

    Tell us what you think about our conflict management program for family law

    Monday, April 28, 2014

    In reality Legal Aid Ontario doesn't practise what is preachers

    I want opinions and strategy's for how to deal with this steamroller of an Public Funded Organization and any experience stories would be nice






    <SUP id=cite_ref-7 class=reference></SUP>




    Last edited by MrToronto; 04-28-2014, 06:39 PM.

  • #2
    I believe the case you are quoting from is from that of one of our own members, WD. His ex is a classic case of cray cray.

    I'm content to leave Legal Aid to represent those who currently qualify, with my tax dollars.
    Start a discussion, not a fire. Post with kindness.

    Comment


    • #3
      There will always be ''wierdo cases'' abusing the system. All in all legal aid is an essential service to those who can't afford representation. Though I do agree that there must be consequences to wasting the court's time.
      Mediation should be Legal Aid's primary objective.

      Comment


      • #4
        It often belies the organization's "intake" policies IMO. Probably need some better screening as long as it doesn't make it harder for those who truly are in need of legal assistance.

        Comment


        • #5
          Better screening and more monitoring. Negotiations and settlement options should in the very least be "explored" in the beginning, middle and end. Not a cold hard settlement per se but "explore" options. Mediation is preached in all angles of family law. It's time LA lawyers stop trying to run up bills, prolonging unnecessary cases which promote high conflict and at least "explore" these programs put in place with their clients. I've offered mediation/negotiation in every single correspondence for 3 months, all ignored. It's not what's in the best interest of the LA lawyer's personal agenda. Its what's in the best interest of the child.
          Last edited by LovingFather32; 04-30-2014, 01:57 AM.

          Comment


          • #6
            I think LA should to be determined on a case by case basis wherein the complexity of the case should be taken in to account, not just one's general income or lack thereof; after which, any accepted persons should then have their litigation monitored on a 30-60 day interval just as it is with many other forms of social assistance.

            May people need this service to protect themselves from the legal methods of exploitation and abuse however LA should never be used to abuse others.

            Comment


            • #7
              Well I think one of the criteria to taking on a client to represent is...does the other side have a lawyer.

              IF the other party is SELF REPRESENTED then where's the fairness. At this point a LEGAL AID lawyer should only offer to mediate for both parties to resolve matters

              I prefer that to being fair and paying my tax dollars into

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by MrToronto View Post
                Well I think one of the criteria to taking on a client to represent is...does the other side have a lawyer.

                IF the other party is SELF REPRESENTED then where's the fairness. At this point a LEGAL AID lawyer should only offer to mediate for both parties to resolve matters

                I prefer that to being fair and paying my tax dollars into
                That is a silly criteria... if one party decides not to hire a lawyer, that is their prerogative but that shouldn't force the other party to not have a lawyer. If you are going to say that, it should be the same for non legal aid lawyers, no self rep should have to go up against a lawyer if that is your criteria.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Sure and if the SELF REPRESENTED is just over being broke and doesn't qualify for LEGAL AID and can't afford a lawyer. Then what?

                  Your last sentence on a private lawyer shouldn't having to face a self rep in Court I was talking about publicly funded lawyers that help low income clients. The private lawyer has the choice of squashing the self rep or not
                  Last edited by MrToronto; 05-03-2014, 09:08 PM.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by MrToronto View Post
                    Sure and if the SELF REPRESENTED is just over being broke and doesn't qualify for LEGAL AID and can't afford a lawyer. Then what?

                    Your last sentence on a private lawyer shouldn't having to face a self rep in Court I was talking about publicly funded lawyers that help low income clients. The private lawyer has the choice of squashing the self rep or not
                    So you are saying that if someone who makes $300,000 a year decides not to hire a lawyer, their ex spouse, who makes say $15000 shouldn't be allowed to hire a legal aide lawyer because their rich ex decides not too?

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      I suggested only suggested a publicly funded lawyer should consider sending parties to there Free mediation service

                      the example you gave is perfect....maybe the 300k person wants to resolve things without lawyers.....but your saying lawyer up?

                      As a taxpayer I'm not sure I like that everybody has the chance to lawyer up I'd rather people resolve things without going to Court in the first place

                      Nothing wrong with a legal aid lawyer going over the 300k parents stuff but to actively get involved up to Trials, I think a legal aid mediator can work for both parties and have a fair outcome


                      There was a guy that transferred millions in assets to his mother became broke and got legal aid and the legal aid bill was huge and the guy won but was found out later

                      Is there games out there and legal aid is duped or gets too caught up in the fights. There's paths to resolution and agreements (cheapest) if it escalates fine lawyer up but pity the person that's hasn't got a government lawyer with endless money even your 300k example will go broke

                      and if you read the case I posted above the Trial went 17 DAYS so too bad for 300k people
                      Last edited by MrToronto; 05-03-2014, 10:25 PM.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        To tag in on your conversation...

                        Would be nice to see the members of the bar give back to the community by way of donating xxx of hours/year. Maybe they could donate these hours by providing mediation services?

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Members of the Bar only want money and after 8 years to become a Lawyer there's nothing like a client with deep pockets. There's some statistic's on there too many lawyers now getting pumped out of schools in a society that is overcrowded with lawyers, it doesn't matter they ain't listening they want a grub stake.
                          Legal Aid is one of the places they get there feet wet and turned loose on a unsuspecting public...to need more lawyers....it is out of control just like dentists they are everywhere and none of them do dentistry...they send you to specialists and periodontitis...and so on...
                          Last edited by MrToronto; 05-04-2014, 12:38 AM.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            and I'll add even with the high demands of my profession I found the time to research what a lawyer does and blew the doors off them even the established ones. The Law Society is now a joke with it's ambulance chasers and legal aid wannabe lawyers...to bad for them

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Okay so what happens if the $300k party wants to settle without court or lawyers because they know if lawyers are involved they will have to pay what's fair? If they don't have a lawyer, which means the other party can't have a lawyer, the $300k has the upper had because they could be withholding CS or settlement funds that the $20k party needs to survive. So essentially the $300k party could get away with paying 1/8 of what they legally should be only because the $20k party needed something to survive on and couldn't go any longer without access to those funds.

                              There are always going to be people who abuse the system, it doesn't matter what the system is, people will abuse it, but I would say the majority of people don't. The reason you see it mentioned so much on here is because the people that are able to settle, even with legal aide lawyers have no reason to be here. Some way you see many people here going to court when statistics show a very small percentage actually go to trial.

                              Personally, if the majority of the tax dollars are going to people that actually need it and don't abuse the system I am happy with that, can't let a few bad apples ruin it for everyone.

                              Comment

                              Our Divorce Forums
                              Forums dedicated to helping people all across Canada get through the separation and divorce process, with discussions about legal issues, parenting issues, financial issues and more.
                              Working...
                              X