50/50 Equal Parenting: The Debate

[LovingFather32]

Your situation is extremely unique... firstly, less than 1% of the population make that kind of money and even less thank that have the brain power to be a specialized physician and have the drive to be the head of a department where they can do greater good.

Focusing on the majority of dad's out there who aren't as remarkably gifted.


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For instance, when her ex left, he left a note for S&T. Unfortunately, the child found the note. S&T brought the child to the Dr and somehow the Dr, (was not a certified child psychologist) recommended to deny access to the father claiming the child now had PTSD.

When I read her thread I became confused as she seemed to put it all on the Dr's shoulders, like she had nothing to do with anything. But she did however make a post that read:

I don't know if a call to CAS is needed as he didn't intentionally try to hurt the kids. She was terribly affected by the letter but I don't know if that could be characterised as abuse.
http://www.ottawadivorce.com/forum/f...itation-13399/

I'm certainly not mentioning this to ruffle S&T's tailfeathers .. but she did state that she was confused whether "finding a letter" was dad being abusive or not and was curious about calling CAS....then took her child to the Dr.

I know it might not have been a 50/50 situation, but just imagine coming home and you and your child finding a letter and all belongings gone. My point is that emotions were surely running high and the terms "abuse" and "CAS" were thrown about in her threads....but there was none.

This is the type of stuff that needs to stop during separations. It's why many don't end up achieving 50/50 in "different situations" (in S&T's I understand he didn't want it).

[trinton]

So what? Why take it so personally that you have to post over and over again the same thing? Why do you care what her reasons are?

I wonder what is more common, parents who try to keep the children so they can keep C/S or parents who don't see their children often or enough, demonstrating very little commitment to the day to day needs of raising a child?

My vote is for the parents who are quite content to be a weekend parent. I see far more of that.

This is a debate. I already know what her true reasons are. Her decision to ignore simple questions are alarming. I don't need answers to conclude my opinion. I have taken a few minutes and painted a pretty picture here. Have a look. Her posts are self explanatory.

I feel this is all fuelled by his desire to save money rather than actuallly see his kids more. My huge concern is that he is now fabricating events and writing them down in emails to me because he doesn't have anything against me and is a desperate man.

He has been manipulating the kids to think less of me (attempting to by again making up stories). He cheated on me … Now he wants them when he is due to pay more? I have a hard time just saying here have your kids 50/50 after what he's been doing to me.
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I am just wondering how much weight a judge will put on the fact that there is a new half sibling relationship to consider when deciding custody arrangements (I remarried and had a baby with new husband). In my case, the status quo is 65-35 custody which ex wants increased to 50-50 now after 8 years.

You don't think the motivation could possibly be money? So let's review then.....
…You don't think a judge will see this??

His "proposed" agreement is literally all about saving himself money. Money is the motivation, not being the best dad to his kids. The judge will also have to hear all of his fabricated crap about me and likely won't think highly about some of his actions the past few years.

Looking for information on how the legal system determines exactly what percentages of custody time each parent has. Is it calculated using only overnights? Is there a formula commonly used?

I think they're too young to hear the adult stuff.

I could tell you stories of things I've had to explain to the kids about his words and behaviours. He isn't abusing them. He isn't hurting them per se. I do think he loves them. I just don't want to lose the arrangement I have. He has been set up in his own house for five years so why come for them now? Because they are older and easier? Because he wants to save money? How is that right?

Guess what? I have a documented journal full of many examples of bad parenting calls. I have an organized binder as well where I keep all the emails and have written my notes attached to them

I recorded my children so that I had proof that his allegations are false.

I HAVE considered a reduction in custody

As a side note, I DO believe 50/50 can be awesome and should be the starting point at time of separation. It's not like I think it can never be the way! If my husband and I were to split right now (without any major issues that would warrant a reduction in custody), this is what we would agree on most likely

The kids love their dad

True story™

[SadAndTired]

Your situation is extremely unique... firstly, less than 1% of the population make that kind of money and even less thank that have the brain power to be a specialized physician and have the drive to be the head of a department where they can do greater good.

Focusing on the majority of dad's out there who aren't as remarkably gifted.


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Fair enough Len. Point well taken. I was just responding to your assumption that I must not have chosen well.

But sadly I do know of many fathers who don't pursue 50:50. A friend of mine in particular is an excellent involved father on the weekends and extra days here and there that he has them. I tried to encourage 50:50 to no avail. I don't really understand it myself.

I know two men who have majority of time and full custody. Neither pursued CS as they saw it as fundamentally unmanly. I know two women who are same. Never pursued CS. Too proud, I guess.

My point is that one can't always assume it is simply a CS based when one parent has more time. Every single person's situation is different.

[SadAndTired]

This is a debate. I already know what her true reasons are. Her decision to ignore simple questions are alarming. I don't need answers to conclude my opinion. I have taken a few minutes and painted a pretty picture here. Have a look. Her posts are self explanatory.

Yes. I, like most everyone else, have read her posts the first time she posted them. I am not a child and do not need them cut and paste for me over and over in hopes that more people here will finally agree with your opinions.

I think it is difficult to not view things through the glasses fogged with the bias of your personal experiences. I simply do not see Ange as the horrible Mother you portray her to be and do not think she has to justify her choices to you.

I don't see her ignoring your questions as "alarming". A bit dramatic, don't you think?

I think her ignoring you and LF's badgering and "questioning" is a mature, non confrontational response to adult bullying.

[LovingFather32]

50:50 should be a starting point with teeth to prevent one parent from pulling stunts to get what they want. Parents who unable physically and emotionally at the time of divorce should also be provided with a reprieve to get help and then a custody review following that. If my partner had the ability to get help and not be faced with bs from people in the community, he would have been able to get 50:50 and not have to kill himself to get there.

You got it Rock. Your story always touches my heart.

I'm not sure if many remember Mr.Toronto. His mother hid him as a child from his father at a cottage. His father searched and searched for him and unfortunately passed away before he could find him. It's in his past posts.
I'm not sure that Mr.Toronto ever forgave his mother for that. SO sad. So if any of you are ever wondering why Mr.Toronto was so vocal and emotionally invested..that's why. If you'r reading Mr. T...I miss ya. Come chat for a while buddy.

Just so many antics by parents after separation, and as Rock points out..too many folks in the community who muddy the waters even more.

[SadAndTired]

Yes yes LF. Please go ahead on my story next. Way to focus on the 50:50 debate in a constructive manner!

As I have stated before, I took my daughter to our family doctor for a STOMACH complaint. It was the doctor who said it was stress related. I didn't mention CAS or abuse at all in my original thread LF. Blink asked me directly if CAS was called and I said I didn't think it was warranted. Post the whole thing or nothing. Selective quoting is stupid and easily refuted.

I came here looking for advice so I didn't overreact at the time. As you are in a helping profession, it is amazing to me that you would ridicule someone/anyone for reaching out for advice.

I am sure no one is interested but please go read my posts if you need further information. LF's paraphrasing and summary of my situation is as inappropriate as him bringing up Mr. Toronto's private life/childhood.

[Ange71727]

This is a debate. I already know what her true reasons are. Her decision to ignore simple questions are alarming. I don't need answers to conclude my opinion. I have taken a few minutes and painted a pretty picture here. Have a look. Her posts are self explanatory.

I asked you to stop talking about me in this thread. Please take your misguided anger elsewhere. You are to be debating the issues in general not speculating about a poster.


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[LovingFather32]

I asked you to stop talking about me in this thread. Please take your misguided anger elsewhere. You are to be debating the issues in general not speculating about a poster.


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Ange .. let me explain something to you.

You came to these forums (the world wide web) and aired out your story to the world about how you're denying 50/50 relationship. You've done and said some questionable things. Nobody here is attacking you. We're saying things that a judge may say also.

We're not all angry fathers here. A load of mom's came here disagreeing with you as well such as Len. Are mothers like her biased, angry and misguided also? No.

You're on a political forum now. It's a debate and we're debating examples (including yours) of 50/50 denials. You just happened to post a 50/50 situation on an open forum.

Instead of ignoring all of our q's perhaps you should take a stab at answering some to practice for court.

I started this thread about 50/50 relationships. YOU posted your case on the internet to discuss, so we're discussing it. Nobody's attacking you. There's no abusive language, name calling, etc... just going over your facts.

If you don't want to discuss it then:

a) you shouldn't have posted your personal life ;
b) you shouldn't keep coming back to this thread to plead your case (but without answering q's).

Ignore my thread if you don't like it.

Word of advice .. if you don't want public discussing things about your case...don't put it on the world wide web.

[stripes]

Ange .. let me explain something to you.

You came to these forums (the world wide web) and aired out your story to the world about how you're denying 50/50 relationship. You've done and said some questionable things. Nobody here is attacking you. We're saying things that a judge may say also.

I started this thread about 50/50 relationships. YOU posted your case on the internet to discuss, so we're discussing it. Nobody's attacking you. There's no abusive language, name calling, etc... just going over your facts.

Ignore my thread if you don't like it.

Word of advice .. if you don't want public discussing things about your case...don't put it on the world wide web.

Yikes, my mansplaining detector just went to red alert. LF, let me give you a couplw of challenges. Can you go for an entire day, starting now, without explaining Ange's situation to her, telling her how she feels, and revealing her true motives, all in the guise of "answering her questions"? Can you attempt to not psychologize, trip up, or otherwise discredit Ange, for just one day? Can you read this post without writing back sadly about how you're really only trying to help and insinuating that I'm in league with S&T and/or a militant feminist?

Just one day. I challenge you.

[LovingFather32]

Yikes, my mansplaining detector just went to red alert

Kind of belligerent, sexist thing to blurt out wouldn't you say?

"Man"splaining? Please try not to insult me suing my gender. I find it offensive. How feminist of you to come up with such a colorful term. I notice Stripes that you have a tendancy to always bring gender up in threads.

Can you go for an entire day, starting now, without explaining Ange's situation to her, telling her how she feels, and revealing her true motives, all in the guise of "answering her questions"

I recall being ripped apart in my threads by you & S&T. I was told I was lying, that my ex was probably right, etc. Pot calling the tea kettle black? I'm male though so I guess rules change.
Ange's explaining her situation to "us", providing very few details and not answering any q's ... then she want no speculations. lol

She won't be able to hide from a judge, calling him an angry father who's speculative. Judge won't go for that.

Perhaps you can "girl"splain to me: (since you want to make this about gender)

Why did she keep 6 binders of bad parenting over 8 years, complaining of psychological harm to her kids, etc. She didn't contact any authorities nor try to reduce any access.

You going to throw that under the rug too? Hmm.

Yet she still allowed (almost an equal relationship) for all that time. Only when dad wants a bit more time does his monstrosities and mysterious binders full of notes come up. Perhaps I'll ask you then Stripes. You know why? Does it make sense to you? Is that responsible parenting if the kids are in such an unhealthy environment?

If it was a father on here doing/saying all this you'd have a different opinion on the matter, he'd be in shit for the recording, the 6 binders over 8 years, etc. For me...it's genderless.

Can you read this post without writing back sadly about how you're really only trying to help and insinuating that I'm in league with S&T and/or a militant feminist?

Never been about gender for me. I don't use words like "Mansplaining" .. I'm guessing it means men cant explain things as good as women? Wow...lol ... me caveman!:

BTW .. I've tried to switch topics several times. She keeps coming back. Have you told her to ignore the thread yet? Because I won't be ignoring my own thread on a debate I'm very interested in....sorry.

If she wants to discuss things she can keep coming back. If she decides to stop contributing to this thread, we can stop discussing her case.

[trinton]

LF32, just ignore everything else they say. The feminists are unraveling. Allow them. I love to hear what else they have to say.

[trinton]

Ange .. let me explain something to you.

You came to these forums (the world wide web) and aired out your story to the world about how you're denying 50/50 relationship. You've done and said some questionable things. Nobody here is attacking you. We're saying things that a judge may say also.

We're not all angry fathers here. A load of mom's came here disagreeing with you as well such as Len. Are mothers like her biased, angry and misguided also? No.

You're on a political forum now. It's a debate and we're debating examples (including yours) of 50/50 denials. You just happened to post a 50/50 situation on an open forum.

Instead of ignoring all of our q's perhaps you should take a stab at answering some to practice for court.

I started this thread about 50/50 relationships. YOU posted your case on the internet to discuss, so we're discussing it. Nobody's attacking you. There's no abusive language, name calling, etc... just going over your facts.

If you don't want to discuss it then:

a) you shouldn't have posted your personal life ;
b) you shouldn't keep coming back to this thread to plead your case (but without answering q's).

Ignore my thread if you don't like it.

Word of advice .. if you don't want public discussing things about your case...don't put it on the world wide web.

Very well explained. Thank you.

[LovingFather32]

Very well explained. Thank you.

I thought so. When I first found these forums Stripes, S&T and the whole lot of them pretty much told me the same stuff. I could pull posts quite easily with all their speculations about me. (Your story doesn't add up, you must be lying, sounds too perfect, etc.)

They speculated the hell out of me to the point where they derailed 5-6 pages at a time "Telling me" what my situation was.

Funny how the tide changes.

Anyhow, I'd like to get back on topic.

So far we've learned that if a parent is almost at 50%, there's no abuse, kids are thriving .. that the other parent "shouldn't" give them an equal relationship...instead go in for a big, expensive court battle (over a day or 2 increase..over "speculations" that he's doing it for money). yuck

Very informative ladies .. thank you.

[PeacefulMoments]

Why did she keep 6 binders of bad parenting over 8 years, complaining of psychological harm to her kids, etc. She didn't contact any authorities nor try to reduce any access.

Yet she still allowed (almost an equal relationship) for all that time. Only when dad wants a bit more time does his monstrosities and mysterious binders full of notes come up. Perhaps I'll ask you then Stripes. You know why? Does it make sense to you? Is that responsible parenting if the kids are in such an unhealthy environment?

It is possible to make lots of bad parenting choices that don't rise to the level of an abuse conviction. While I still believe 50/50 is usually the best choice, and yes, many parents will rise up to the occasion, I have to say that if I truly felt the other parent made enough poor parenting choices I would probably want the majority of time also for the kids to have the more positive influence and stable and healthy environment the majority of the time.

While of course we cannot know in this particular case the true details it is certainly possible that the kids might be best served by the mother retaining the majority of time. The problem still remains of having some kind of objective evaluation of the situation when the parents don't agree on the time split.

[LovingFather32]

It is possible to make lots of bad parenting choices that don't rise to the level of an abuse conviction. While I still believe 50/50 is usually the best choice, and yes, many parents will rise up to the occasion, I have to say that if I truly felt the other parent made enough poor parenting choices I would probably want the majority of time also for the kids to have the more positive influence and stable and healthy environment the majority of the time.

While of course we cannot know in this particular case the true details it is certainly possible that the kids might be best served by the mother retaining the majority of time. The problem still remains of having some kind of objective evaluation of the situation when the parents don't agree on the time split.

Depends on who's evaluating the bad parenting choices. Warring spouses or ex's rarely are. Also ... no parent is perfect. It should take quite a bit of terrible stuff to deny a 50/50 equal relationship with your biological children.

Do you agree?