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  • Had Our Case Conference Today

    First off, I arrived way too early (an hour an a half) as I was immediately told that duty council would have lunch and talk to me once finished lunch at 2:00. Which was when our case conference was scheduled for. Duty council didn't really say much to me at all.

    I met with the respondents lawyer and she briefly told me that they were willing to work on an a agreement. I told her that supervised access was far fetched and that I didn't find it necessary as I am not a threat to the child. I told the lawyer that I would like to hear the judges advice.

    The judge basically said that we are two young parents who can't agree. He did say that it is important for the child to spend time with BOTH parents. He explained to me that I would be granted permission to file a motion for access but suggested that I accept the 1 month of supervised access at a centre. He basically implied that it was peanuts to do and to just get it over with.

    I was very hesitant making a deal with the respondents lawyer as I am only self representing and am just learning the court process.

    The order I agreed to is as follows

    a) twice weekly for two hours supervised at a access centre
    b)Upon four consecutive week of successful supervised access visits the access shall occur twice weekly, two hour unsupervised visits for two weeks. After the two weeks the applicant shall have unsupervised visits every wednesday from 9:00 a.m.-12:00 a.m. and alternating weekends on saturday and sunday from 10 a.m. - 3:00 p.m.

    b)The applicant shall provide the respondent with 24 hours notice should he have to cancel an access visit

    4) the parents shall communicate only by email for the purpose of discussing access. In the even of an emergency the parties shall be permitted to contact each other by telephone.

    5) neither parties shall speak disparagingly towards one another. particularly in front of the child.

    Also, child support was settled even though I will be paying FRO as the respondent is on assistance.

    Settlement conference booked for Dec. 21.

    The way I look at it is that I am at least getting some visitation as I have barely had any in this 8 month year olds life. I understand that the judge would want me to ease my way into our daughters life.

    Do you think I did the right thing in this situation? I had a spur of the moment decision where I didn't want to wait another 2 months while a motion was in process to spend time with my daughter.

    Thank you!

  • #2
    Tayken, I know that you stressed that I don't accept supervised access but the judge really urged me to just do it. Do you think I did the right thing here?

    Comment


    • #3
      supervised access

      I have been in your shoes and can appreciate the stress and emotion you are under, but i dont think you made this best decision at that moment.

      from my experience-exactly-the court will not listen to a motion when there is a SC date set, i had to deal with this a few times and the court would not hear it.

      on the other hand you have several months to prove yourself with documentation and ask for increased unsupervised access with overnights at the SC., try to get a date for overnights to occur to avoid the stress and cost
      of a further court date.

      take care, the raven

      Comment


      • #4
        Thanks raven, now that it's settled in I think you're right. The way I was looking at it was that I was going to play the game as honest as I could. Any access is better than what I've received to date. As you mentioned I will document every single visit in depth.

        It's hard not being a lawyer and dealing with a lawyer just based on internet research and free legal advice.

        Comment


        • #5
          supervised access

          no problem, i was in your shoes, and less than a year later i was granted all access we wish for. besides having good access in your supervised center i would recommend taking some inexpensive courses like,first aid for children,fathers parenting(if you are the father), they will show how committed you are this december to the court, and possibly the other parnet.

          best of luck, raven

          Comment


          • #6
            Just actually completed my refresher for my first aid/cpr for work so that might be good to state. Also I was recommended a good "Dad's" program. Hopefully the more that I do the easier it will be for the judge to rule a final result.

            I appreciate the advice and recommendations!

            Comment


            • #7
              the dads program will look excellent for you, and also you will meet and learn from others, if your child is an infant or very young the childrens first aid is great to have., i am glad to have the experiences and the certificates help seal the deal when the law was involved, raven

              Comment


              • #8
                my advice...do everything the judge asked....and maybe go above and beyond like the others have said....you said you ex had a lawyer that could be a bad thing if your ex has lots of money...or a good thing if the ex is under pressure financially to settle...(the ex's lawyer knows how far this can be taken) everybody get's 50-50..keep going for that, make a parenting plan....don't do anything to delay matters or look unreasonable or you may wind up paying court costs.....it's all forms and patience...goodluck(not spelchecked)

                Comment


                • #9
                  my ex is getting legal aid so she can disagree to anything any the lawyer won't care because she's getting paid. I will go the extra mile to please the courts. thanks!

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by eightythree View Post
                    my ex is getting legal aid so she can disagree to anything any the lawyer won't care because she's getting paid. I will go the extra mile to please the courts. thanks!
                    Well, lawyer may be do not care to some extent but your ex should
                    http://www.hamiltonlaw.on.ca/Libraries/Family_Law_HLA_Articles/FLApril2012.sflb.ashx

                    Is that order what you consent to has Without Prejudice in it?

                    WD

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by WorkingDAD View Post
                      Well, lawyer may be do not care to some extent but your ex should
                      http://www.hamiltonlaw.on.ca/Libraries/Family_Law_HLA_Articles/FLApril2012.sflb.ashx

                      Is that order what you consent to has Without Prejudice in it?

                      WD
                      Yes it is without prejudice.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by eightythree View Post
                        First off, I arrived way too early (an hour an a half) as I was immediately told that duty council would have lunch and talk to me once finished lunch at 2:00. Which was when our case conference was scheduled for. Duty council didn't really say much to me at all.
                        Government services at their best and unfortunate that they didn't have any other staff to assist you with your questions. You didn't arrive "way too early" in my opinion and if you were relying on talking to duty counsel probably should have pre-booked (if you can) or showed up first thing in the morning to insure you were able to get the assistance you required.

                        Originally posted by eightythree View Post
                        I met with the respondents lawyer and she briefly told me that they were willing to work on an a agreement. I told her that supervised access was far fetched and that I didn't find it necessary as I am not a threat to the child. I told the lawyer that I would like to hear the judges advice.
                        As you were going into a mediated case conference this is a good position to take as that is the purpose of the case conference.

                        Originally posted by eightythree View Post
                        The judge basically said that we are two young parents who can't agree.
                        This is echoed throughout court houses across our country on a daily basis by justices. Don't just "listen" to what the judge was saying but, understand what the judge was "telling" the both of you.

                        Originally posted by eightythree View Post
                        He did say that it is important for the child to spend time with BOTH parents. He explained to me that I would be granted permission to file a motion for access but suggested that I accept the 1 month of supervised access at a centre. He basically implied that it was peanuts to do and to just get it over with.
                        Any agreement made at the Conference should not be marked "FINAL" and should be temporary. Double check the paperwork to make sure it is not a "FINAL" agreement.

                        Now, to break down what the judge was "telling" you and not just "saying" littered with my personal opinion:

                        1. Recommendation to take the 1 month supervised access and "peanuts".

                        The judge is absolutly right that it is "peanuts". What the judge probably didn't tell you is that during your supervised access visits for that one month a professional will be observing your interactions with the child. This is cogent and relevant to your parental conduct from an independent third party. So, if you manage the access visits properly and the third party at the access centre has nothing but good things to say about you... Any irrelivant and over anxious arguments about you being a danger or harmful to the child in question is thrown out with the bath water.

                        The judge didn't "say" this but, was politely to the best of their ability to not look "biased" that if you manage your time appropriately, conduct yourself on best behaviour and focus on your child's best interests and demonstrate that you can parent you will walk away with notes and reports stating this. It pretty much demolishes and hearsay arguments about your "parenting".

                        Originally posted by eightythree View Post
                        I was very hesitant making a deal with the respondents lawyer as I am only self representing and am just learning the court process.
                        So long as the agreement is not made "final" and you have another appearance (conference) scheduled then, you really have nothing to worry about. Many parents fear the dreaded "status quo" but, one cannot establish "status quo" on a temporary agreement made on consent. So, don't worry about it being a good or bad deal but, an excellent opportunity to demonstrate to a third party that you are a competent and capable parent.

                        Originally posted by eightythree View Post
                        The order I agreed to is as follows

                        a) twice weekly for two hours supervised at a access centre

                        b) Upon four consecutive week of successful supervised access visits the access shall occur twice weekly, two hour unsupervised visits for two weeks. After the two weeks the applicant shall have unsupervised visits every wednesday from 9:00 a.m.-12:00 a.m. and alternating weekends on saturday and sunday from 10 a.m. - 3:00 p.m.
                        Gradual integration of your presence in the child in question's life. Also, it is quite well structured depending on the age of the child in question. If you had a lawyer you might have gotten better but, not much better and as a self represented litigant it is actually a well structured arrangement in my opinion.

                        Again, so long as the agreement isn't final and "temporary" it just works in your favour. The process before the court that you have found yourself is a long process and frustrating but, if you are patient and do things correctly you will (my opinion) find yourself with full joint custody and equal access (50-50) of the child in question. It does suck that you have to jump through these hoops but, don't look at them as "punishment" but, the "peanuts" and shell and eat each "peanut" and you will be in an excellent position. The judges will see this and it will make any case against you harder to put forward by the other party to the litigation.

                        Originally posted by eightythree View Post
                        b)The applicant shall provide the respondent with 24 hours notice should he have to cancel an access visit.
                        Although this is listed in the agreement I STRONGLY RECOMMEND that you miss none unless you are in the hospital getting emergency medical treatment. There is no reason that over that short period of time that you should cancel any access visit for any reason.

                        Originally posted by eightythree View Post
                        4) the parents shall communicate only by email for the purpose of discussing access. In the even of an emergency the parties shall be permitted to contact each other by telephone.
                        B.I.F.F.

                        Brief
                        Informative
                        Factual
                        Friendly

                        Follow this pattern and you will do ok. I am personally not a fan of "email" and WorkingDad will probably eventually outline in detail why "email" can be a problem in a highly conflicted divorce. I would have recommended it be done through "Our Family Wizard" or a similar third party parenting planning system that has accountability to BOTH parents and children.

                        I wouldn't be anxious about email but, be forewarned that should you have to rely upon email "evidence" for a serious matter before the court it can be an ugly pain for any represented litigant let alone a self represented litigant.

                        Originally posted by eightythree View Post
                        5) neither parties shall speak disparagingly towards one another. particularly in front of the child.
                        Follow this COMMON SENSE. No "you said" hearsay crapola. B.I.F.F. In fact, my recommendation is to write the response, save it as a draft, wait a while and have a trusted third party read it before sending it to insure it is B.I.F.F. and not an emotional explosion.

                        Originally posted by eightythree View Post
                        Also, child support was settled even though I will be paying FRO as the respondent is on assistance.
                        Still need an agreement and/or order stating the child support amounts etc for FRO to actually be able to do anything.

                        Originally posted by eightythree View Post
                        Settlement conference booked for Dec. 21.
                        Although it may feel "far away" potentially, time moves quickly in these matters so use your time wisely, focus on being a parent, demonstrating you are a good parent and that you can parent. Let your relationship with the child in question, reasonableness and other things be your evidence.

                        Originally posted by eightythree View Post
                        The way I look at it is that I am at least getting some visitation as I have barely had any in this 8 month year olds life. I understand that the judge would want me to ease my way into our daughters life.
                        At 12 months of age and a clean slate with the supervised access centre and following the order there is no reason that a 2-2-3 50-50 access schedule can't be put in place for the child in question. Just play your cards right and BE A LOVING PARENT and demonstrate this and your intent do be just that and it will be hard for a judge not to twist the other parent's arm off at the SC in December to move forward at least with a plan to get to 2-2-3 50-50 access.

                        Originally posted by eightythree View Post
                        Do you think I did the right thing in this situation? I had a spur of the moment decision where I didn't want to wait another 2 months while a motion was in process to spend time with my daughter.
                        Honestly, in my opinion, you did well considering the circumstances and lack of experience... Really well. Other parents often go in shooting off their mouths in a conference and get no where, end up before a judge on a motion with hundreds of irrelevant affidavit materials and still no access to their children. It just makes matters even more complex and judges even more angry as the ultimate expectation is that parents... PARENT THEIR CHILDREN and not hurl allegations before the court.

                        Calm, cool and collected...

                        Good Luck!
                        Tayken

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Thanks for taking the time to break everything down. You have no idea how much I appreciate your advice.

                          I received a call from the supervised access center this week and visits commence on September 9th. As you say, I just need to show motivation, a willingness to learn and love and I should receive positive feedback from the workers. It was getting frustrating waiting for the call to get things going but things are moving forward. I'm nervous that my daughter will make strange but that's out of my hands and if she does, I'll work with it.

                          Again, thank you very much for taking your time to help me out!

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            You also now have the ability to file a motion over the subject.

                            I suggest you start working on it immediately.

                            You were able to get SOME access on a consensual basis, which is great. And yes it is peanuts.

                            Go to the supervised access, and close to the end of the month's time, file a motion for unsupervised access. Assuming all goes well under supervision - it should be a slam dunk. Plus, your ex will incur costs over the motion for being a bone-head and not agreeing in the first place.

                            The point is you got SOMETHING for now, which is probably all she would have agreed to, right? So essentially, look at it as a win for yourself.

                            Comment

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