Divorce Law are a Joke and Dads are the Punch Line

[leafsrule]

CISTEAD:

I have one quick question. My husband has a Settlement Conference this Monday, to settle Section 7 expenses. He needs to pay his share of Orthodontic that have already been paid for in full. He is looking for proportionate to income, as the payee makes 3x what he does. We are happy to pay our portion, and we stated in our Settlement Conference Brief that we wish the order to be filed with the FRO, as these Section 7 expenses will constitute arrears, and are eligible to be enforced by the FRO. We would prefer that to be honest, and we would like to make a voluntary arrears payment agreement. Is there anything you could recommend as far as the wording of the court order, etc?

For special expenses for things like medical, dental or even special needs, make sure the special expenses are divided by proportion share of incomes (if your husband makes less, this should be reflective in the agreement) and make sure it's agreed upon to a certain percentage like 50/50 or 60/40. Some lawyers try to get too fancy with their wording but simple is best. If medical bills are to be split according to incomes, make sure they take out "proportionate share" and replace with a percentage for the payor and recipient. For sure, special expenses have to be claimed by the recipient, so they can be paid back in a voluntary arrears payment plan. As well, make sure you agree that ALL bills have to be discussed before being authorized to be done. You'd be surprised how many times people just go and get something done without consulting the other person and then a nice $3000 bill shows up on their balance. Make sure the wording is something like "all future medical, dental and other special expenses are discussed and agreed upon by both the payor and recipient before proceeding" or something to that effect.

[leafsrule]

LostFather:

There are hundred's of thousands of fathers out there either engaged with some form or custody issues, even if there are for the sake of argument 10% that are getting screwed by either FRO, the justice system or their ex's, that would equal 10,000 fathers out there that are fighting for their rights, too see their children and are getting raped by FRO

FRO doesn't screw anyone over. We don't make up the court order or change/modify it, we only enforce it. That would be the courts you should be mad at, not FRO. As far being "raped" by FRO, I don't even know what to say about that statement. I sense a lot of hostility from you, perhaps you should really educate yourself and instead of complaining, maybe you should try to help out your own case. No offense but there are tons of payors who are perfectly fine with their support and going through FRO, so you're wrong there.

no way is the money for the children, nor are the children getting said monies! This is a punitive measure only.

Again, I sense a lot of hostility with this statement. I'm wondering why you choose to say such a thing. Do children not cost money to raise? Your responsibility is to provide for them, so this is why the court decided on the amount you are to pay, end of story.

[leafsrule]

FYI: If your stats are right (which I doubt but I won't argue it with you) that 10,000 fathers are getting screwed over by the courts, that would make approx. 1 in 20 fathers who are upset with the courts or FRO (or both). That means 19 fathers are fine with their agreement or are at least man enough to accept what it takes to take care of their family and ex-partner.

My question to you: Does this mean you aren't man enough to take care of your family or you just don't like being told what to do?

[LostFather]

injusticeman:



I work with FRO, so believe me when I say I see and hear more in one week than you'll experience in a lifetime of courtrooms. When I mentioned about getting a good lawyer, I stand by that claim. A good lawyer doesn't always mean $500 an hour either. You can have a high-priced lawyer who steers you wrong too, I see it everyday too. A good lawyer who's familiar with FRO, that's a good start but even better is to find one who's caring and sensitive to payors and recipients, those are much more rare to find. You don't need to break the bank, you need to do your homework in finding one.

If you are denied access to your kids, that's not the court's fault or even FRO's, that's a legal issue which you need to address back in court. Is there a reason you are being denied access to your children if you are paying support on time?

Instead of suffering in silence, why not pay a visit to your local MPP to see if they can help or even talk to the police and, of course, the court. Talk to the support recipient and mend the fences for the sake of the children. No offense but I've yet to see someone denied visitation or access to their children unless they were either late or didn't pay their support or they violated a court order like drinking, taking drugs or violence.

You state:

"Is there a reason you are being denied access to your children if you are paying support on time?"

Whether support is paid on time or not....one has nothing to do with the other! This is a common mistake, that appears even FRO's representative seem to mix up!

This is not pay per view Mr FRO! And is somewhat insulting and shows only ignorance to suggest otherwise. This is something that fathers deal with on a daily basis, for whatever reason there maybe for not paying or payment didn't get where it was supposed to go, heck maybe FRO didn't get the money where it is supposed to go or on time, which I believe is something you've even admitted to.

I'm sure you do a good job at what you do, and something even tells me you might even care, but until you get into the court system, as a father that has to fight tooth and nail for every little thing, all your experience in your office, will never come close to a father's experience in a system that is bias and unjust. This is of course just my opinion.

[leafsrule]

FRO can't, doesn't or won't enforce custody issues or access denied to children, it's not within our jurisdiction to do so. This is strictly a legal matter, therefore, FRO doesn't mix it up, we direct people to the help they can use to solve this.

Speaking of help, you can always visit your local MPP or MP, police or go back to court for access being denied or custody issues. Clearly if you are paying and not allowed to see your children during your scheduled time, this is violating the court order and therefore needs an agency that can deal with legal issued (such as the ones l mentioned above).

Perception is reality and if you think the court system is biased, then you are right in your own opinion.

[dadtotheend]

I'm sorry...what's the money for????

When paying 1/2 to 1/3 it's for some arrears.

[LostFather]

FYI: If your stats are right (which I doubt but I won't argue it with you) that 10,000 fathers are getting screwed over by the courts, that would make approx. 1 in 20 fathers who are upset with the courts or FRO (or both). That means 19 fathers are fine with their agreement or are at least man enough to accept what it takes to take care of their family and ex-partner.

My question to you: Does this mean you aren't man enough to take care of your family or you just don't like being told what to do?

Now, who's really hostile here Mr FRO? Interesting how you take my concernes or disagreements as hostile, this is the very thinnking that you and others like you in the courts or at FRO that decent fathers have to fight with on a daily basis. I beleive, and again, this is just my opinion, your head is in the clouds!

It amazes me to no end the attitiude towards fathers because they dare to buck the unjust and bias sytems that surrounds them, so what if I'm angry, if I am maybe it's with good reason, who are you to deny that MR FRO, and your lackadaisical attitude towards those men, and thoughts that somehow because there is only a few of us there must've been something we've done or didn't so, that we some how deserve what we get.

Here is a quote, that rings so true, and you've only vaildatd this with your post.

"A woman anger is something to be feared,
Whereas a man's anger is chastised"

Wish I knew the author to give him/her credit.

Funny how when a father is "angry", the hostile angry, disgruntle father routine aways surfaces!

Oh, BTW leafs suck

[dadtotheend]

Speaking of help, you can always visit your local MPP or MP, police or go back to court for access being denied or custody issues.

You are posting some good stuff for people leaf. Thanks for showing up.

You know yourself though that MPP, MP, police and court have virtually no access teeth.

Unfortunately, and wrongly, dads are getting screwed big time for access and at the same time paying through the teeth in CS often through the FRO.

Yep, the FRO has nothing to do with the order to pay, just enforecement. But y'all the front man for injustice to those screwed over Dads that have a legitimate axe to grind.

Guys like LostFather have a right to be pissed. Too bad the FRO, rightly or wrongly, gets to be the face of injustice.

Not fair, but true.

[LostFather]

When paying 1/2 to 1/3 it's for some arrears.

Is this for 1, 2 or 3 children that you come to this conclusion?

Th numbers are figured before deductions, not take home, also there is child care. Not sure about your experience, mine equals to almost 43-45% of my take home.

[leafsrule]

Hey, I'm not hostile at all, I'm calling it the way I see it. You're the one who's posting anger quotes on here, not me.

Again, I deal with hundreds of cases per month where the men are just fine with the system and FRO. And I see angry ones too who hate us and the courts. Now, are they getting unjust court orders or are they just mature enough to accept it and try to be the best possible parent for their kids? I have a client who still brings dinner to his ex and the kids when he comes to pick them up... 16 years later. If you are disgruntled and angry, you won't be around long enough for your children at this rate because you'll either be dead from stress or your children will hate you for being so difficult. I see it every day and, again, you have to take things like a man and just accept the court order and know it's going to support your family.

[dadtotheend]

Is this for 1, 2 or 3 children that you come to this conclusion?

Th numbers are figured before deductions, not take home, also there is child care. Not sure about your experience, mine equals to almost 43-45% of my take home.

Doesn't matter how many kids. The percentage reflects that.

I'm getting CS, although she's in arrears one month in, but that's another story.

When paying 50% to 67%, that's greater than 43-45%.

Arrears.

[LostFather]

Hey, I'm not hostile at all, I'm calling it the way I see it. You're the one who's posting anger quotes on here, not me.

Again, I deal with hundreds of cases per month where the men are just fine with the system and FRO. And I see angry ones too who hate us and the courts. Now, are they getting unjust court orders or are they just mature enough to accept it and try to be the best possible parent for their kids? I have a client who still brings dinner to his ex and the kids when he comes to pick them up... 16 years later. If you are disgruntled and angry, you won't be around long enough for your children at this rate because you'll either be dead from stress or your children will hate you for being so difficult. I see it every day and, again, you have to take things like a man and just accept the court order and know it's going to support your family.

Sorry, again, you see things from you little cubical and you do not have a note of the reality of what happens in the courts. As far as taking your advice on stress, if I were to listen to your advice to lay down and take what's given to me, I wouldn't have the access to my children that I enjoy today, thats a fact, plain and simple. If I hadn't had the strength and willing to take on that stress and the system, I would only be one of those dads that see their children 4 days a month or even less, you have no idea, with your examples of roses and dinners, hey that's great, but there are many dads out there that do not enjoy this with there ex and it is not because of anything they've done but try and see, and have input in their children's lives. Sorry but you're really losing all credibility with me, maybe others will fall with what your selling, fortunately, I have not followed many of your preachings.

[LostFather]

Doesn't matter how many kids. The percentage reflects that.

I'm getting CS, although she's in arrears one month in, but that's another story.

When paying 50% to 67%, that's greater than 43-45%.

Arrears.

Not sure what you're saying about the 50-67%

[leafsrule]

Again, you can choose the way you see things around you, no one else can change that accept for you.

If you think the courts, FRO and everyone else is wrong, you are right then.

The system is designed to help the 90% of people who want to either work with it or who accept it for being less than perfect but still pretty good. The other 10% I believe wouldn't be happy even if things went exactly how they wanted them too.

If a legal system helps the majority of people, then it's working the way democracy intended it to work. If it doesn't suit you, either you need to change or continue to try to change it yourself but I'll tell you right now you won't change it yourself and you'll lose valuable time and memories with your kids in attempting to do it.

[leafsrule]

If you are paying over 50% of your net income for support, that's against the law, it can't be over 50% for anything, whether you are paying on your own, deducted from your work or even a government source.