Preparing file for lawyer

[hemademesingle]

The wealth of information from this board is right on,

I sent the future x's lawyer an email pertaining to the marital home, that lite a fire, at first law firm denied he was a client, I only addressed issues concerning the house, then sent back a demand to know if he was indeed the lawyer listed in the court papers,that email got some attention and my lawyer was sent an email stating that future x was not allowed to communicate with me, yet he did

Future x got really mad, so he decided to not pay his child support, so I sent my lawyer a very firm,lets get on with this, he is not paying support, he has never paid the proper amount anyway, no section 7 expenses until this year, My lawyer received 20 pages of documents from future x's lawyer, most of which are going to be argued he has debt on credit for costco for this year we have lived apart since 2009, and OMG we have a pending date in front of a judge, I never would have sent my lawyer such a firm letter of this stops now, without reading this forum, nor would I have ever sent the future x's lawyer a letter,


I have a binder prepared for my lawyer, it includes copies of everything, any special order it should be in, financials, house it is being severed from the divorce, benefits, insurance, section 7, possessions, pension, RRSP, children.

Is there anything that I'm forgetting?

I have crazy emails saying he was going to sue me for the cat, yet he's never bought it a kibble or paid a vet bill, lots of threats, homelessness, not being able to feed my kids, should I include any of these

[caranna]

I have crazy emails saying he was going to sue me for the cat, yet he's never bought it a kibble or paid a vet bill, lots of threats, homelessness, not being able to feed my kids, should I include any of these

My soon to be ex listed unused kitty litter on his evaluation re: household items, (along with unused toilet paper). Sounds like our future x's would make a great pair.

As far as I know, pets are listed as household items for evaluation purposes.

[blinkandimgone]

As far as I know, pets are listed as household items for evaluation purposes.

Seriously? If that's true then I must be really wealthy. :-/

Unless they were some kind of prized animal, I would have thought they'd be listed as a liability...much like teenagers.

[caranna]

There seems to be a lot of variables and much left to the discretion of the judge involved, who hopefully would take into consideration of the amount of care accorded to the pet(s).

HomeCustody/AccessCustody of Fido - Is the Bark worth more than the Bite?
Custody of Fido - Is the Bark worth more than the Bite?
Posted by Katie Lloyd on October 18, 2010
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Many people consider pets to be members of their family. When discussing the break-down of a family unit we may comment on who should have “custody” of the pets. However, the Canadian judiciary is reluctant to engage in such discussions. In Canadian courts pets are treated as property; little different from the dishes or the dining room table.

In Ontario, when married spouses separate their property is divided by ownership, with the party having the greater net family property owing an equalization payment to the party with the lesser net family property. Technically the value of the dogs, cats, turtles, iguanas, etc. are to be assigned to the column of one spouse or the other. The property of unmarried spouses remains divided by ownership, such that if either party wishes to make a claim to the other’s property he or she will be required to do so by making ‘trust claims’. Should Fido be owned by the other party, a common law spouse may be required to bring a constructive or resulting trust to get an interest in him.

However, determining who “owns” the family pet can be tricky. Judges may consider who purchased the pet, if the pet was brought into the relationship by one party or the other, if the pet was gifted from one spouse to the other, or from a third party, who has possession of the pet following the breakdown of the relationship, if there were any agreements regarding the pet’s ownership, and so on.

There is an often acknowledged absurdity to treating pets strictly as property. You cannot divide a pet and it may not be at all appropriate to sell a pet and divide the proceeds.

Some judges will in fact consider which party has been more responsible for the care of the pet, or who is the more capable pet-parent. If the separating spouses have children the judge is likely to consider if it is in the children’s best interests for the pets to remain with them.

In recent years an increasing number of Applications are being made for custody or access to pets. Ontario courts are responding by refusing to take jurisdiction of the matter or otherwise dismissing such cases. In doing so they often reference scarce court resources and the need to keep parties’ costs proportionate to the merits of the case.

Should separating spouses decide to enter into their own Separation Agreement rather than proceed to court, they may treat the pets more creatively. The parties may determine who will have primary care of Fido, an access schedule, and perhaps even some form of financial support payment.

As long as the parties follow the terms of their Agreement no one will question treatment of the pet as more than property. The issue arises with regard to the enforcement of such agreements. Should one party or the other choose not to follow the Agreement, the aggrieved party can turn to the courts for redress on the basis of contract law. However, he or she will not be able to use some of the more useful ‘tools’ available to enforce terms related to custody and support of children. There is no Hague Convention on abduction of pets. There is no government agency who will assist in collecting and enforcement support for a pet.

Most people find the loss of a cherished pet through death, or after a separation, to be very difficult. Whether the law could ever fully recognize the importance and significance of your relationship with your pet may be worth some reflection the next time you are walking your dog, cleaning the cat litter, or feeding your ferret.

[OrleansLawyer]

I have a binder prepared for my lawyer, it includes copies of everything, any special order it should be in, financials, house it is being severed from the divorce, benefits, insurance, section 7, possessions, pension, RRSP, children.

Tabs. Please, use tabs, and a table of contents.

If you are going to make a list of household items (pots, pans, fridge, dog, china set, etc), anything you couldn't sell on ebay for more than $1,000 should, if included at all, be listed on a spreadsheet that has a highlighted sum at the bottom, and preferably a note included for your lawyer that says "ignore everything but this bottom amount".

For benefits, insurance - keep the paperwork together, put an abstract at the front with a brief summary (my benefits cover 75% of all dental and drugs for myself and children; my life insurance is worth $7,632 and pays $100k if I am hit by a bus) a note that your lawyer need not read it, but simply pass it on.

Save yourself legal fees. Keep things simple to avoid confusion. Too much information can be worse than not enough, particularly if it is not organized.

emails saying he was going to sue me for the cat

Untitled property belongs to whomever bought it or, if no one remembers, maintained it, or otherwise whoever has it in hand. Most pets have a negligible value on paper.

should I include any of these

Tell your lawyer that you will be keeping a folder at home of abusive e-mails. Do so. Be ready to produce them before a motion for when your lawyer drafts affidavits.

[hemademesingle]

Thank you so much

I had done tabs and table of contents, then thought that maybe that would look to much like a school project

My side is rock and roll ready, and he still hasn't provided his financials.

[hadenough]

I did not want to start a whole new thread. I have been to a Law Firm recently. A LARGE one. Twice I've asked via email, what the fee/hrly rate or retainer will be. I am not getting a reply to this particular question.

I've met w/the Firm twice in the last month: both times after 5pm. I know for a fact that the first visit was not being billed to me. I have been asked to send them information (Trial Briefs etc) but before I courier over 2 big binded books of materials, I'd like to know what I'm looking at. I definitely do not want any surprises. I find it odd that I've come out twice and inquired re: fees, with no response. I did deal w/them on one matter a few months ago and in that instance, I was told to bring a cheque (fee) for the particular legal service rendered. I did so and within a day, a receipt was emailed to me.

Any thoughts? Thank you.

[caranna]

My experiences and research...

Large firms are often concerned a LOT about billable hours and will often charge more than smaller firms. Beware of the lawyer who wants your documents before he/she can tell you want they can do for you. Let the lawyer know what you want done. The lawyer should be able to give you an idea of your legal situation and what can be done, with a ballpark figure for your case.

Have you talked to more than one lawyer? Did you want unbundled service?

[Tayken]

Tabs. Please, use tabs, and a table of contents.

VERY important to keep organized. Furthermore, you should scan in everything in the paper document and "tab" (index) it into the proper directory structure. Also, when you scan in your materials you should OCR it. When this is done and someone puts a desktop search engine like Googles on their system, the files can be indexed and found in seconds.

[QUOTE=OrleansLawyer;111275]If you are going to make a list of household items (pots, pans, fridge, dog, china set, etc), anything you couldn't sell on ebay for more than $1,000 should, if included at all, be listed on a spreadsheet that has a highlighted sum at the bottom, and preferably a note included for your lawyer that says "ignore everything but this bottom amount".[quote]

Generally household items are not worth the paper and time that these lists are printed on and the time a lawyer has to sort through them at 265-500 an hour. So, heed OrleansLawyer's advice... What you think your household items are "worth" probably are not worth that much and are rather disposable for small sums of money.

A two bedroom apartment isn't worth that much on eBay these days... Unless the items are incredibly valuable antiques or something...

For benefits, insurance - keep the paperwork together, put an abstract at the front with a brief summary (my benefits cover 75% of all dental and drugs for myself and children; my life insurance is worth $7,632 and pays $100k if I am hit by a bus) a note that your lawyer need not read it, but simply pass it on.

See the bold comment. If you are providing evidence you should always preface it and summarize it. Especially if it goes over a few pages in length. Spend the time to understand your evidence and demonstrate to the lawyer you do... It will go a long way.

Save yourself legal fees. Keep things simple to avoid confusion. Too much information can be worse than not enough, particularly if it is not organized.

OrleansLawyer posted a really good recommendation to how to write a factum. If you present the evidence and other materials in accordance with his recommendations as a "factum" to the lawyer... It can probably save money and time and keep focused on the "important" matters.

Tell your lawyer that you will be keeping a folder at home of abusive e-mails. Do so. Be ready to produce them before a motion for when your lawyer drafts affidavits.

Print them and scan them. When you do print them make sure the full header of the email identifying the originating source. You can also OCR these and make them searchable which makes it faster to access the evidence when needed and for the appropriate time.

Good Luck!
Tayken

[hadenough]

I wish I had scanned more of my documents from the start. Very good advice above. I'm still wondering though - why can't I get an answer?? I'm mtg w/2 lawyers. One is guiding, the other will be representing me (or so that's the "plan")

The snr lawyer is not charging (complicated situation) - but the Junior (very sharp) I expect, will BE (obviously). I do not want to send the briefs (they are tabbed and indexed as they were in trial) until I "know" what I'm looking at in the way of fees.

Tayken: what is OCR?

[mcdreamy]

I wish I had scanned more of my documents from the start. Very good advice above. I'm still wondering though - why can't I get an answer?? I'm mtg w/2 lawyers. One is guiding, the other will be representing me (or so that's the "plan")

The snr lawyer is not charging (complicated situation) - but the Junior (very sharp) I expect, will BE (obviously). I do not want to send the briefs (they are tabbed and indexed as they were in trial) until I "know" what I'm looking at in the way of fees.

Email him and ask him for a copy of his retainer agreement for review.
I'm surprised they haven't sent you one yet to sign. It should out the rate of fees to be charged.

[hadenough]

Thx McDreamy: I'm reluctant to ask a 3rd time but I have to do something. There's a court date coming up in a few weeks. It's not Family Court. I'm entwined in a very difficult situation which has been dragging on for a very long time. I'm so tired I will call the lawyer later and ask him (I haven't called him prior to today.) I need to get these documents out asap, there isn't a lot of time.

[firhill]

what is OCR?

Optical Character Reader/Recognition.

Scans and saves your document as a text file as opposed to say, scanning an image and saving as a JPEG file. You can then, if need be, edit the .txt file using a word processor.

[OrleansLawyer]

Twice I've asked via email, what the fee/hrly rate or retainer will be. I am not getting a reply to this particular question.

This should be a cause for concern.

I have been to a Law Firm recently. A LARGE one.

Noting that every generality has exceptions, large firms that include family law practitioners are often known for being very adversarial and very expensive. While your situation may merit an aggressive stance, depending on your family assets you may find it prudent to look around price wise.

I do not want to send the briefs (they are tabbed and indexed as they were in trial) until I "know" what I'm looking at in the way of fees.

Solicitor's lien against your file until legal fees paid. You are unlikely to hear what the final cost would be, but being aware of the hourly rates is prudent. No one likes receiving an $80,000 bill when they were expecting $8,000.

[hadenough]

Thank you Orleans Lawyer. The Firm (one of Canada's largest and most reputable) deals exclusively with Corporate Litigation, Corporate Restructuring, Bankruptcy and Class Action Law suits in Canada and the U.S.

My original reason for having been sent to them (by my Trustee) has to do w/my grim financial situation as a result of my ex's bankruptcy. He is undischarged. I am an opposing creditor (for whatever that's worth). So what I'm saying is, these solicitors are fully aware of my finances or better yet, lack thereof. The very circumstances (multi layered) that brought me to them in the first place are indicative of my inability to pay high/any legal bills.

Yes, it is quite the situation.. I'm pretty certain this isn't going to be pro bono.