Case conference update

[singledad99]

We had the case conference last week on number of issues including OCL appointment, support payments, corollary relief and access issues. The judge was overly sympathetic to the ex and said I was paying too little in support - no account was taken whatsoever for the child who lives with me. Because the judge was overly sympathetic to the ex, I ended up agreeing to pay more support than she was asking for.

On the custody issues, the judge clearly said that there was no need for OCL involvement. She also said that mom should not have overnights because of her poor health and living arrangments. This is the second case conference on this matter and both judges have favoured maintaining the status-quo. The ex is still pushing for a motion and she wants it as early as April.

I am confused! I don't understand why I get pushed each time around at the case conference while judge's recommendations seem to make no effect on the ex. I am trying to understand what is her real motive behind all of this legal harassment. She used all sorts of allegations to discredit me and was clearly lying about the facts. I had hard evidence to prove that she was lying but the judge was not even interested in listening to my side when I was called in. This is how it is when I have the custody. I can imagine how bad it would be if she had it.

[FL_Needs_To_Change]

This is exactly what happened to us.
The ex had all kinds of unfounded and unsubstantiated allegations, allegations we had ample documentation to disprove, yet the judge seemed to totally disregard us, and focused on the ex in our case conferance too.
I think because it is a case conference, it is less formal and the judge is not required to read all documentation.

She has the child in our case, and ultimately she won all her issues.
Long story short I hope you do not fall into our shoes, we have nothing.
Mom was permitted to moved more than 18 hours drive (one way) from us, was not ordered to contribute to travel/access costs, etc. We could no longer afford both our family expenses, maintain the high CS and still take time off to exercise access so far away.

Subsequently we were "advised" to take it to trial.
We couldn't get council to represent us, so we gave up on all legal proceedings.
Dad fought for 12 years for minimal access, and he was always willing to bend over back wards to accommodate the requests of the ex. For what ever reason, the courts never saw that part of Dad, only the allegations.

Now dad cannot emotionally or financially afford to keep up the fight. Child is under the control of ex, and believes dad does not put her above himself or his other children, and refuses to see him. And rightly so, we are not at this point allowed to show her anything court related.
We pray every day that this will change. That some day she will come looking for answers. Then we can once and for all show her how he fought, all the records of mom’s requests that he did without question, all the sessions he took to appease her mother, all the email and letter correspondence between mom and dad, mom demanding and dad agreeing, only ever asking to see his daughter. It may be too late by then as the daughter will have missed out on so much, a dad that loves her unconditionally, siblings that miss her terribly, not to mention extended family.

Don’t give up the fight, you have the child, mom will hopefully one day see the light too and realize who she is really hurting.
Keep the forum posted on your progress, as there are others that can offer their experances to help you in future proceedings. As I understand there should be a future court appearance either a trial or motion to finalize outstanding issues if there are any.

[About_Time]

I have my first case conference in a month and I'm worried. My ex has thrown around a lot of baseless accusations which I too can refute, but really it depends on whether the judge decides to actually listen. I had assumed that they - as judges - would be interested in what is provable, but if that's not the case I may need to prepare differently for the conference.

Is there some recourse for someone like singledad99 when a judge is basing decisions on claims in spite of evidence to the contrary? I would think that they have rules they have to stick to as well, even in a case conference.

[FL_Needs_To_Change]

As far as I am aware, there is no recourse, as this is a case conference, and it is informal, and the judge is not "required" to read all information/supporting documentation.

Judges tend to follow status quo in a case conference unless there is compelling arguments to the contrary, its basically a way to get issues on the table, and rarely are things dealt with or altered unless both parties are in agreement.

A Case Conference, according to the Family Law Rules, takes place before a judge and is designed to explore your and the other parties chances of settling/resolving the case. As such, the judge is likely to express his/her view of the likely outcome of the case in an effort to encourage settlement.

The judge also ensures that both parties exchange all relevant information needed to achieve a fair result by ordering disclosure to be made by a certain date, if required. At a Case Conference, a judge can make a temporary or final order (if notice has been given), give procedural directions, set a date for a motion, refer the parties to mediation, and so on.

Personally I wish there was. Live and learn

[FL_Needs_To_Change]

http://www.cle.bc.ca/Practice%20Poin...07-jccprep.pdf

This is a link to a BC page that explains how to use case conferences effectively.
Best of luck to you About_Time

[Alentia]

About Time,

Make sure you reply to all the accusations your ex put against you in form of affidavit. Serve it to ex and/or ex's counsel. Make replies to each paragraph. I think you need to file brief for case conference. Make sure no paragraph is unswered, otherwise court sees it as you have agreed to it. Make your point, whatever it is in terms of custody or SS.

After your ex's pleadings in form of affidavit or brief were served to you, you have (I think) 20 days to reply. Even if you are gonna be a bit late no worries, as long as you answered it before case conference, to be safe 7 business days before the hearing. Make sure you file everything before case conference. It's a war and you must be menace to your ex. State facts only, no emotions. She said, he said - doesn't work.

[FL_Needs_To_Change]

Good advice Alentia.
My understanding is that the reply must be filed 7 business days before the Case Conferance.

[Fair4All]

Affidavits

I seem to recall reading a case on the Canlii website citing where sections of affidavits that were deemed untrue by the judge were officially struck from the evidence. I couldn't find that case, but found this one (in Saskatchewan) that refers to the Queen's Bench Rules:

http://www.canlii.org/en/sk/skqb/doc...01skqb143.html
It may be a provincial thing, but would be interesting to know if such Rules exist in Ontario.

[FL_Needs_To_Change]

http://www.canlii.org/en/sk/skqb/doc...01skqb139.html
Gusikoski v. Gusikoski, 2001 SKQB 139 (CanLII)

http://www.canlii.org/en/sk/skqb/doc...02skqb497.html
Kwas v. Swaile, 2002 SKQB 497 (CanLII)

http://www.canlii.org/en/sk/skqb/doc...07skqb431.html
Murray v. Murray, 2007 SKQB 431 (CanLII)

The majority of affidavits that were maliciously entered and stricken from record occurred in Sask.
But there are numerous cases on the subject should any one want to search them.
If one feels that one party to a case is mis-using affidavits it's imperative that the behaviour be stopped and sighting other cases is a way to facilitate just that.

So if you are replying, make sure each paragraph is actually a reply.
One of the above cases, demonstrates a situation where a non-custodial parent replied and most of the replies (paragraphs) were stricken as they were not deemed replies at all.

[About_Time]

My lawyer and I drew up a response to the inital forms she filed, which included all of her crazy accusations. All the parts we didn't agree with (and there were many) were specifically addressed. Hopefully we didn't miss anything.

She's going to make things exceedingly difficult, so I'm pretty nervous about the whole thing. On the plus side, I respond well to stress and direct questioning, and she tends to go to pieces in spectacularly dramatic fashion. Hopefully that will work in my favour.

Thanks for the encouragement and, like singledad99, I'll keep you all posted.

[Alentia]

Case Closed!!!

After 5 years the case is closed by minutes of settlement.

Quick facts and chronology:

1. She applied for SS
2. Brought motion for immediate support
3. Support awarded around $600 per month
4. Brought new motion for bigger support, wanted $5000
5. I lost the motion, SS awarded at $2500 per month
6. Costs awarded at $20,000
7. I said F...k it all. I have 3 kids and wife to support, not paying a penny. Did not pay a cent.
8. Lost driver license
9. Lost passport
10. Declared bankruptcy
12. Default hearing: Judge threatened me with jail term. I said, please, sentence me, I do not care. He did not.
13. My application dismissed by 14B using false facts by her lawyer. Case lost, My application is stricken.
14. Motion by my new lawyer. Case re-instated
15. She appealed
16. Appeal dismissed
17. She is ready to settle (She already spent 100K in legal fees within last 4 years)
18. I was ready to settle from the start. Agreement to pay what I offered her at the beginning without times frames, now locked for 4 years. The amount just about the same as awarded at the first motion.
19. By the end of negotiations she refuses to sign, wants court date.
20. Her lawyer doesn't seem to like the idea of getting legal aid for preparation and 2 days in court.
21. She is desperately looking for new lawyer who will take case and legal aid at this stage. No one wants it.
22. My lawyer does not mind, just for the heck of it. The case is rather interesting.
23. Takes another four Conferences within 1 year time span. Judge considers case settled, even it is not signed. Orders to sign the settlement.
24. Settlement is signed. Case closed.

Aftermath:

We both lost about $100 she + $40 me in legal fees
We both lost 5 years of our health dealing with this BS
Kids were suffering emotionally
Little money left for kids university
My credit history is ruined, she has debt over $50K
She is going to get just little over $30K for the next 4 years

Who benefited:

Her lawyer, promising her quick victory and lifetime pension.

Who suffered and lost:

Kids
My wife
She
Me
Canadian Tax Payers
Canadian Banks