Disciplining a five year old or something worse?

[Nadia]

Blink, I am not suggesting that deaf children need to be treated with preferrential treatment because of their disability. To the contrary, like I said I have high expectations for our daughter. I don't want her to just finish school. I want her to excel and have a succesful experience. I was diagnosed with dyslexia when I was much older but managed to get through the education system and went on to graduate with a PhD. A disability should never be an excuse to hold anyone back.

The point that I was trying to make (unsuccesfully) it seems was that I have arranged for all sorts of additional supports for my daughter in school addressing all her weaknesses. (some related to the deafness others related to her academic delay) But there is no point in having the extra one-to-one learning or even a small classroom size, if the kid is arriving at school exhausted from a late night or weekend and unable to participate in the curriculum.

I'm glad to hear that you did well in school.

[blinkandimgone]

Any child will do poorly in school if they are ALWAYS exhausted, deaf or not. My point - apparently unsuccessfully made as well - is that some things are related to a child's special needs and some are related to just being a child in general.

Just about every kid I know goes to school tired every once in a while, it happens and isn't the end of the world. Yes, it is beneficial for ALL children, deaf or not, to have a regular routine but it is unrealistic to expect that the routine will never change or be broken every now and then. Everyone has bad days sometimes and it's OK, it's how we teach children to deal with those bad days that is important.

It's also OK for kids, deaf or not, to learn there are consequences for acting out, regardless of the reasons why they did. Your child is going into grade one and you're concerned that she won't get into university because she doesn't currently get an afternoon nap with Dad on the weekends. Her nap time WILL end in a month when she goes to school full days, it may be in her best interest to get used to not having naps now before school starts otherwise you're going to go through this all over again when school starts. Will you blame the school at that point for not allowing her to sleep away the afternoon while the other children are learning?

There could be a hundred other reasons why she chose to act out, aside from not having her usual naps. Who knows, kids are kids, deaf or not and unless you hear it straight from the horses mouth when it happens you'll never truly know the reason why so you could be antirely barking up the wrong tree to begin with.

[Mess]

The point that I was trying to make (unsuccesfully) it seems was that I have arranged for all sorts of additional supports for my daughter in school addressing all her weaknesses. (some related to the deafness others related to her academic delay) But there is no point in having the extra one-to-one learning or even a small classroom size, if the kid is arriving at school exhausted from a late night or weekend and unable to participate in the curriculum.

Nadia this statement is absurd. Because she is arriving at school "exhausted" on Monday morning, there is no point in trying anymore? There is no point to these extra "supports"? This is an obvious fallacy, what you are doing is practicing a guilt trip on us. We aren't the ones keeping her up late. Obviously you have to say this to her father. And what you are saying is hyperbole. She can't possibly succeed in life if she doesn't get her naps now, and then why should we even bother trying? All of these supports are set up at great effort and cost, and they are now worthless due to dad's obstinance.

These kind of statements are far too extreme, and this is going to push the average person into disbelieving and dismissing them. You shoot yourself in the foot by trying to oversell your point.

She's tired, she's not getting enough sleep, she'll do better with a bit earlier bedtime. By the way, how was the wedding, I bet everyone was happy to see her! This will get you more results, I think.

[dadtotheend]

These kind of statements are far too extreme, and this is going to push the average person into disbelieving and dismissing them. You shoot yourself in the foot by trying to oversell your point.

She appears more concerned with the negative than the positive.

[Nadia]

What I was trying to say again very unsuccesfuly, is that if the child is burning the candle both ends, that is waking up early and going to sleep really late, she benefits from an afternoon nap.

Together with all the research conducted on communication fatigue this makes even more sense for children who are hearing impaired.

If she doesn't get her regular nap, then she should go to sleep at a reasonable time, so that she can get up at a reasonable time.

Guys, I am not talking about an occasional late night here. I am talking about staying up late every other weekend and every Tuesday night and every Thursday night. She has kind of managed up until now because she was taking a nap at her daycare in the afternoon.So no big deal.

This past week, dad had her for vacation, and she was up late every night. (Its a week long wedding with parties every night). She arrives back exhausted. No big deal if it is a one off o ever so often. But this happens regularly.

The point about the supports that I have worked very hard to put into place is this: If the kid is too exhausted to focus on learning and can't concentrate then how is the additional supports going to help. In the past, when she has been too exhausted because of a late night we have had to walk out of the session and cancel the appointment with her speech pathologist altogether.

How is that supposed to help her?

Blink, I realise children act out because of many other reasons that are not related to their disability. But I was trying to say, was this, in my experience I have found that our daughter is more likely to act up if she is exhausted. If I was having the same trouble with her that my ex was having then I would welcome any support/advice that he could share with me.

Nadia

[Nadia]

Mess, I think everyone was very excited to see her at the wedding. She said she enjoyed the wedding until day four, by day seven she had had enough and told me does not want to attend another wedding for a while. Well, she has another wedding to attend come this weekend. So, we will have to make sure she is in best shape for that.

I know drawing the link between "well, if jenny does not take an afternoon nap now, she won't make it to University," sounds plain silly.

I would have served myself better to re-frame it with "if Jenny is burning the candles both ends and arriving at school physically exhuasted on a frequent basis she will not be able to utilize the services/supports that have been put in place for her to access the curriculum at the school."

She is already behind her peers academically (not related to the deafness), that together with her deafness means that there needs to parental involvement from both parents. I've got her into the best school I can afford, have worked hard with school to put the supports in place and am paying extra for all the additional one-to-one work with no help from ex with any of this.

I teach at a University, and see students who have fallen between the cracks all the time. They arrive at University unable to write in complete sentences or with awful spelling. Skills that begin at the elementary years. I still support these students, meeting them where they are. But it is a crying shame they were unable to get the help earlier.

I want to give our daughter every possible chance I can to make sure she achieves the best she can. SHe might not make it to University or simply choose not to attend in the end, but it will not be because of any lack of parental support.

[standing on the sidelines]

a seven day wedding???

[Nadia]

Um, sorry to say but yes, weddings in our community are about seven days long.

Beginning at 6.00am on Monday morning, when all the guests have to arrive punctually at the brides house to do some "rite of passage" stuff with her before she can take her shower. Then the day is filled with all sorts of other festivities that run late into the night.

Day two bride's mother's side arrive bearing gifts etc. So another long day and late night party. Day three, groom's family (not the parents or groom) arrive bearing gifts for the bride. And yes more festivities and parties. Day three singing and dancng in the evenings and some other rituals.

Day five the BIG pre-wedding party that runs late into the night. Day six guests have to arrive by 7.00am at the latest before everyone heads to the place of worship. Morning reception beginning at 9.ooam. Weddng ceremony around noon followed by lunch. A short break between ceremony and evening reception that begins at 6pm through to midnight and beyond. Day seven, all guests have to return to greet the bride. She returns with her husband and family. And yes, one more party to seal the deal.

I had to go through the same when I was married. Hugely expensive and very stressful.

[blinkandimgone]

Blink, I realise children act out because of many other reasons that are not related to their disability. But I was trying to say, was this, in my experience I have found that our daughter is more likely to act up if she is exhausted. If I was having the same trouble with her that my ex was having then I would welcome any support/advice that he could share with me.

Nadia

So perhaps that is not his experience. Did he ask your advice or or you just volunteering it to him?

[Nadia]

I shared my experience with him because he asked for it.

[blinkandimgone]

It is a difficult situation to neghotiate. I was thinking about sharing with ex, 1) all the research I have found in respect to communication fatigue and deaf children, 2) how I have found certainly in my experience with our daughter that there is a direct correlation between bad behavior and physical exhaustion and finally, 3) how I have found that ensuring that she has regular breaks, a nap in the afternoon if possible and a reasonable bed time routine really helps.

What do you think? Does this sound reasonable? Of course he may just ignore what I share with him? In which case, our daughter will need to have to figure out a way to advocate for herself. But she is only five years old.

I guess I must have gotten the wrong impression from what you said in your previous post ^^ when you were asking whether or not you should.

[Nadia]

At the time I told him a nap might help. He didn't want to hear that. Didn't go into anything about all the research or my own experience in any detail.

However, when I spoke to him later that afternoon, he did inform me that HE had taken a nap. And was now feeling and coping better. So maybe, I need to be encouraging dad to take regular naps.

[Rioe]

Honestly, wouldn't regular naps help ALL of us?! I know I sure could use some.

Maybe you can just set aside the deafness and the school issues and stuff, and show him some simple medical facts about how much sleep the average six year old needs to function and grow properly, and how much they benefit from regular bedtime. And then maybe work together with him to establish a good bedtime and rising time for her that works for her no matter where she is that night.

How many people are left in her family to get married anyways? Is an end in sight?

[Mess]

We're all parents here on this thread, and all our kids are on summer vacation and we all know what happens to their sleep schedules. Personally I think you are expecting things to be more controlled than is really possible.

[Nadia]

Mess, We are not talking just about staying up late and waking up early during the summer. If that was the case, not an issue. I'm talking about all year round.

Rioe, thanks for the constructive advice. I think you make some good points.

Ex, is a very popular guy socially and very important figure in the community, so there are always weddings/parties/festivities and events to attend. So no end in sight.

I don't have a problem with weddings/parties per se. If that's how he wants to spend time with his kids when he has them, that is fine. I only have problems with her burning the candle both ends without any rest and turning up exhausted at school the next morning (on a regular basis) and during mid-week (on a regular basis).