trying to avoid court..failing

[janedoe99]

This week my lawyer sent me a copy of the custody/ access form that they filled out for review. I realized that once my ex recieves it..all hell will break loose. In order to avoid that..I thought I'd call him and try and see if we can come to an agreement one last time. Well...that was a FAIL.

Ex has a past of neglecting parenting responsibilities, heavy drinking and safety issues with his temper with the baby. I haven't seen him enough lately to know if he has these issues under control so I can only go on what I've known of him.

I cannot afford a lawyer without going into debt...he doesn't have to pay for his lawyer so he isn't worried about that. I called him and he refused to work with me..he said that what he does is non of my business and he trusts his lawyer. I tried to reason with him asking if he can produce some drug and alcohol testing for a couple months...(not proving sobreity but proving that he doesn't drink in excess) then we could go on to a permanent non-supervised agreement. He refused.

He says that I will owe him court costs..so I decided to read some of the form about costs. (that it said because he was unreasonable..and I kept attempting blah blah). Is this bad that I read him stuff from the form that hasn't been sent? I just wanted him to really know what it meant to start these proceedings..and that I am trying to work with him and that all I ask is 1 thing. Proven help for his drinking/drugs.

The application is for joint custody after he completes drug and alcohol testing and satisfy drug/alcohol counselling. It also states spousal, full costs, and a bunch of other stuff which I have never until now been seeking. Would my lawyer be going for all of this if they thought that the judge would deny it. Does it mean my lawyer thinks there is enough evidence to support what they are asking for?


I do trust my lawyer...but then again..he trusts his too. So does this mean one of the lawyers is giving wrong advice?

[billm]

...Would my lawyer be going for all of this if they thought that the judge would deny it. Does it mean my lawyer thinks there is enough evidence to support what they are asking for?

YOU are going for all of this, not your lawyer.

You need to understand what your lawyer is doing and why, and understand the evidence to support it. There is no other way to retain control of your case.

I do trust my lawyer...but then again..he trusts his too. So does this mean one of the lawyers is giving wrong advice?

Probably both lawyers

[janedoe99]

I gave my lawyer the facts...and some evidence to support the facts (affidavits). I told my lawyer that I just want to ensure my child is safe and to do whatever is needed. Some other stuff on the application I never asked for (spousal etc) but I wonder if that is just to help reach agreement.

I am just really confused and scared to submit this application. I'm not an expert in this. I don't know if you ask for a more and expect to meet in the middle...if you ask for only what you feel necessary..or if you ask for only what a judge will likely agree to.

[FaithandMorals]

It is NOT reasonable to ask for drug and/or alcohol testing unless he has a proven record of such things. By this I mean police or employment cautions.
Lawyers often ask for everything and anything they can even remotely or possibly epect to get. This is called a scatter gun approach. If they throw enough mud, they hope something will stick. What you really want to ask yourself is what you want for your child(ren) and how you want the following years you have to deal with the OP to be until your child is no longer a minor. If you think it will be easier to go for a little and move forward then maybe you should think about this. If you are asking for something more than 50/50 I suspect you will have a fight on your hands and may want to listen to your lawyer to achieve what you want. Caution ; this may cost your life savings.
A friend of mine that used to practice family law almost always advised mothers to let dad have 50/50 if they truly thought the Dad was crap. That way, they would know for sure if he was a dad or a deadbeat and if things went wrong the courts would not fault them for erring on the side of the child(ren). I say to you ask yourself what you want first.

[FaithandMorals]

If he does not have any documented issues (police or employment) with drugs and alcohol, you are the one being unreasonable by insisting on it before you will allow him to parent.

[Mess]

If the roles were reversed would you be more or less likely to settle if you received such a letter?

I recognize that he isn't willing to negotiate but being halfway through the court process and hearing something over the phone are two different things.

By asking for the moon you are pushing him up against the wall. Even if he gives in it will only fuel his resentment.

You know him better than we do, will he be equally resentful no matter what?

If you are asking for things you don't want, then you are escalating and prolonging conflict. There is no way around that. You lawyer has absolutely no objection to escalating and prolonging conflict, that is how they make their living. You have to decide what is reasonable for YOU, not for your lawyer, not for your ex. Just because there is a possibility you can achieve something in court doesn't mean you have to.

That said, you also have a duty to assert yourself, both for your child and for you. You don't help anyone by being a doormat. It is a fine line to have to walk, not easy for anyone.

[FightingForFamily]

When I saw my lawyer's application, I stopped her and took out a pile of crap. She told she wanted it to be aggressive to force the other side to negotiate out of court out of terror of being ordered to lose a lot more than they were willing to.

The advice I got on this forum is repeated here. Keep control of your own case. Be honest with what you want, support your position with real evidence, and do not let lawyers manipulate the case.

In the end, my scaled back application which reflected my true wishes, with reasonable requests, resulted in a liveable out of court settlement.

[torontonian]

I also toned down my lawyer's brief, HOWEVER - my lawyer insisted to ask for things I wasn't really going for, because "if you don't ask for them, the judge will not be able to grant them later on", and believe me, things do change and you WILL WANT some of the stuff that generously or naively you were ready to forego at the start. Just wait until a new girl/boyfriend comes into the picture in the ex' life... (just an example).

[janedoe99]

fighting for family- yea that was kind of what I was thinking. I got the form and it makes me appear like I am unreasonable...which I am not. I only really have one issue (child's safety). However, the fact that the ex is being unreasonable and I am going to go in debt makes the costs sound appealing..but at the same time I don't want it to look like I'm trying to take.

Torontonian- What do you mean if the ex gets a new partner? I'm over our relationship issues. I guess it would only matter if it were someone that gets too involved in our co-parenting.

[torontonian]

The new partner is another person in the equation, your ex may pay more attention to her wishes than what you wish for... I understand it's about parenting, and yes, a new person may want to participate more (or maybe less) in raising your daughter. There's also some ego, he's got to show his power to the new woman.... Lawyers have seen it before, and they seem to be able to predict future reactions - hence the aggressive touch. I was under shock a few times at my lawyer's tone, but it did get some movement in my case... and won the approval of the Judge on CC and SC...