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  • #61
    Originally posted by Tayken View Post
    And this decision has become sighted CASE LAW already and used in other decisions. I don't see any of the highly conflicted members providing their decisions from their trials here... Or the ones coming to say they "won" at court. Family law is not about winning or losing... It is about FAMILIES.

    When the court, OCL and other professionals demonstrate a bias... Then it is responsibility of the parent to stand up in front of the court or give up. Vast majority give up.



    His decision is based on CASE LAW. Not sure if you are familiar with the whole concept of CASE LAW. WorkingDad's result is not an a one shot deal. It is based on other similar cases with similar results. (I.e. VS v TK, etc...)



    I have a different perspective... Access to information... What has changed significantly in the family law arena and why we are seeing more "WorkingDad" decisions and the others reflexed against his case... Parents more than ever have access to a vast amount of information. How a parent leverages the "good advice" and "bad advice" they can find quickly and easily on the internet is a key factor to these evolving decisions. In a matter of moments and through Google you can find a lot of answers that in the past you had to pay a solicitor for.

    Furthermore, more than anything you mentioned... WorkingDad's result is driven by his desire to be an active and involved father in his child's life. Intelligence could be a factor but, parental drive and being a responsible parent is more of a factor in the matter.



    Why? Because all fathers can't use Google and access the same information WorkingDad did?



    I strongly disagree. If you reflex the decision and see what the judge relied upon... His situation isn't a "Results not typical" situation anymore.



    They have it now... Google



    I think it is fair to identify that the information necessary to learn what these other parents (not just fathers by the way) have... We live in the information age... It is amazing to see how many people can come to this site, get an account and post a message but don't put their question into Google before asking their question.

    The answers are out there in the public domain for anyone to find. Everything from the psychology of parents after divorce, children's "best interests" right to the case law that Judges rely upon when making decisions. Hell, 90% of the problems fathers face in "general" issues before the court are addressed in the book "Tug of War".

    I have heard all too many judges tell litigants these days that had they simply read a book prior to all the stupidity none of this would have happened. Judges are not accepting the excuse of the "I didn't know what else to do" anymore.

    The door swings both ways too on the genders on this one too. Mothers can't play the "waif" role anymore before the court. Too many have and too much case law has evolved around the common "truisms"... So much so they are sighted in case law.

    Good Luck!
    Tayken
    It's not just about having the information, (although that is a significant part of it and only a recent development.) If that were all it took, everyone might just as well get rid of their lawyers. I think we both know though that the DIY approach is not for everyone, or for every case. You're dealing with individuals, with personal histories and ways of dealing with conflict that don't necessarily lend themselves to the very assertive approach that you advocate. WorkingDad, Mess, Hammerdad, NBdad - this approach works for them. For others not so inclined, the "system" is unforgiving.

    I don't dispute that there are whiners of both genders that want to blame everyone and everything for their own messes. My point is simply that it isn't always the case that when a father either gives up or has his right to be an equal parent taken away from him, it's because he's lazy or could care less. That's harsh and insensitive to the dads (some mom's, but mostly dad's) who in some cases are completely wrecked by the fact that they will probably never see their children again.

    Comment


    • #62
      Originally posted by plky View Post
      It's not just about having the information, (although that is a significant part of it and only a recent development.) If that were all it took, everyone might just as well get rid of their lawyers.
      There are methods to separate and divorce without having to have lawyers always involved. The challenge is it takes two very mature people to accomplish this. The good news is that in the majority of many cases this does indeed happen.

      Originally posted by plky View Post
      I think we both know though that the DIY approach is not for everyone, or for every case.
      I would agree that the DIY approach prior to "going to court" is actually for everyone. The challenge is that not everyone wants to take that path nor can everyone take that path. More cases are settled out of court or through much more collaborative dispute resolution services than in court.

      Originally posted by plky View Post
      You're dealing with individuals, with personal histories and ways of dealing with conflict that don't necessarily lend themselves to the very assertive approach that you advocate.
      Just to point out... What I am complaining about the very agressive and "assertive" (possibly narcissistic individuals) who come to this site crying fowl about the systemic problems. They present large complaints, statistics and other "information" that demonstrates that they are intelligent potentially... They are high conflict and possibly have some form of mental illness (BPD, NPD, etc... Cluster B) or disorder (adjustment).

      These are grueling, argumentative parents (fathers and mothers) who will argue their "case" till "the cows come home" on any little irrelevant "fact" that they make up. Their arguments are mostly based on "emotional reasoning" and not facts.

      So, before we start comparing all "men" in the same category... Not all people are equal and this thread is a demonstration of a parent who is complaining they are a victim of the system in an attempt to blame something other than themselves. They come with "facts" and arguments... They are not the "waif" or under educated father who could be a victim not of the system but a negative advocate solicitor.

      Originally posted by plky View Post
      WorkingDad, Mess, Hammerdad, NBdad - this approach works for them. For others not so inclined, the "system" is unforgiving.
      The system is not forgiving for any party in the litigation. I doubt there are any parents who walk away from any court experience "happy" or feeling "good" about the experience at all.

      Originally posted by plky View Post
      I don't dispute that there are whiners of both genders that want to blame everyone and everything for their own messes. My point is simply that it isn't always the case that when a father either gives up or has his right to be an equal parent taken away from him, it's because he's lazy or could care less.
      How about I frame it a different way... When a highly conflicted parent comes to the sight projecting blame, complaining and making negative comments about women maybe... Just maybe... They may have given up on what is most important... Their children. Maybe if they took a child centered approach to their litigation, stopped trying to blast the system for being gender biased and demonstrated (prior to the court proceeding and during the court proceedings) that they are an equal parent they wouldn't have any problems.

      Maybe... Just maybe... They cared too much about the system and not their children with their immature attack of the legal system, the mother of their children and society being "anti-dad". I have seen more than enough litigants show up to court facing horrible allegations and walking away with equal shared custody.

      Now, I wouldn't disagree that the CLRA and Divorce Act need to explicitly integrate into the "best interests" better wording about "equal and shared parenting" some how. There is too easy of a mechanism in court to run in alleging piles of crap but, judges are a lot smarter than people let them on to be.

      I have seen a judge tell a litigant to fire their lawyer and that this is not how family law is conducted. (Now, this litigant had sworn statements that the other party was a satanic ritual abuser. It is a rather extreme allegation to bring to family court...)

      Originally posted by plky View Post
      That's harsh and insensitive to the dads (some mom's, but mostly dad's) who in some cases are completely wrecked by the fact that they will probably never see their children again.
      Then rather than ranting about the system being their enemy... Why not setup a men's shelter? Work with legislators on fixing the systemic problems. Researching alternative dispute methods for family situations? Hurling useless statistics grounded in no facts and trying to emotionally rile up a pile of disgruntled Dads is not the way to do it. Negative advocacy never got anyone anywhere.

      The courts just don't take children away from fathers these days without reason. (or mothers)

      Good Luck!
      Tayken

      Comment


      • #63
        Originally posted by Tayken View Post
        There are methods to separate and divorce without having to have lawyers always involved. The challenge is it takes two very mature people to accomplish this. The good news is that in the majority of many cases this does indeed happen.



        I would agree that the DIY approach prior to "going to court" is actually for everyone. The challenge is that not everyone wants to take that path nor can everyone take that path. More cases are settled out of court or through much more collaborative dispute resolution services than in court.



        Just to point out... What I am complaining about the very agressive and "assertive" (possibly narcissistic individuals) who come to this site crying fowl about the systemic problems. They present large complaints, statistics and other "information" that demonstrates that they are intelligent potentially... They are high conflict and possibly have some form of mental illness (BPD, NPD, etc... Cluster B) or disorder (adjustment).

        These are grueling, argumentative parents (fathers and mothers) who will argue their "case" till "the cows come home" on any little irrelevant "fact" that they make up. Their arguments are mostly based on "emotional reasoning" and not facts.

        So, before we start comparing all "men" in the same category... Not all people are equal and this thread is a demonstration of a parent who is complaining they are a victim of the system in an attempt to blame something other than themselves. They come with "facts" and arguments... They are not the "waif" or under educated father who could be a victim not of the system but a negative advocate solicitor.



        The system is not forgiving for any party in the litigation. I doubt there are any parents who walk away from any court experience "happy" or feeling "good" about the experience at all.



        How about I frame it a different way... When a highly conflicted parent comes to the sight projecting blame, complaining and making negative comments about women maybe... Just maybe... They may have given up on what is most important... Their children. Maybe if they took a child centered approach to their litigation, stopped trying to blast the system for being gender biased and demonstrated (prior to the court proceeding and during the court proceedings) that they are an equal parent they wouldn't have any problems.

        Maybe... Just maybe... They cared too much about the system and not their children with their immature attack of the legal system, the mother of their children and society being "anti-dad". I have seen more than enough litigants show up to court facing horrible allegations and walking away with equal shared custody.

        Now, I wouldn't disagree that the CLRA and Divorce Act need to explicitly integrate into the "best interests" better wording about "equal and shared parenting" some how. There is too easy of a mechanism in court to run in alleging piles of crap but, judges are a lot smarter than people let them on to be.

        I have seen a judge tell a litigant to fire their lawyer and that this is not how family law is conducted. (Now, this litigant had sworn statements that the other party was a satanic ritual abuser. It is a rather extreme allegation to bring to family court...)



        Then rather than ranting about the system being their enemy... Why not setup a men's shelter? Work with legislators on fixing the systemic problems. Researching alternative dispute methods for family situations? Hurling useless statistics grounded in no facts and trying to emotionally rile up a pile of disgruntled Dads is not the way to do it. Negative advocacy never got anyone anywhere.

        The courts just don't take children away from fathers these days without reason. (or mothers)

        Good Luck!
        Tayken
        I agree you and I are focusing on two different sets of people. I'm talking about the ones who are good, loving dads who have the misfortune (stupidity?!) to marry someone of the type you're talking about, and lose shared custody and then contact with their kids as a result of this high-conflict person's behaviour. Your post was directed at someone who belongs to the latter category; my objection was that you appeared to include people in the former.

        The sort of people I'm talking about are not ranters, but neither are they typically reformers, unfortunately. That's where the second wife comes in

        Comment


        • #64
          Originally posted by plky View Post
          I agree you and I are focusing on two different sets of people.
          There are few of the other type of people to leverage as examples on this site... Hence the small list of them. I forgot to add Gary to the list. He is another example of a father who has been through hell and back.

          Originally posted by plky View Post
          I'm talking about the ones who are good, loving dads who have the misfortune (stupidity?!) to marry someone of the type you're talking about, and lose shared custody and then contact with their kids as a result of this high-conflict person's behaviour.
          This is rarely the case though today. There are few fathers who lose their kids because of the court from a final decision. What happens to these parents (i say parents here because it happens to women a lot too) is that they are bullied into giving up. This is where the system does need improvement and where it should be integrated with the mental health system.

          Originally posted by plky View Post
          Your post was directed at someone who belongs to the latter category; my objection was that you appeared to include people in the former.
          I would strongly disagree. The OP of this thread is making up statistics in an attempt to make himself feel good about his situation. Instead of looking for solutions he is looking for validation that he is right. This is a very high-conflict pattern of behaviour. The constant allegations that he is a victim of the statistics is troubling and concerning.

          So much energy and attention if focused on the right things could benefit more people. Alas, that isn't the case... Just weird posts of video-game like statistics in an attempt to "statistically" prove people wrong. This just screams NPD and an inability to see beyond one's own problem.

          Good Luck!
          Tayken

          The sort of people I'm talking about are not ranters, but neither are they typically reformers, unfortunately. That's where the second wife comes in [/QUOTE]

          Comment


          • #65
            Originally posted by Tayken View Post


            This is rarely the case though today. There are few fathers who lose their kids because of the court from a final decision. What happens to these parents (i say parents here because it happens to women a lot too) is that they are bullied into giving up. This is where the system does need improvement and where it should be integrated with the mental health system.
            Yes, it happens to lots of women too. I belong to a group that is, coincidentally, made up almost entirely of custodial moms who have been alienated from their children by the non-custodial dads. This tells me that in extreme cases custody is irrelevant and the court's only remedy is to order no contact between the child and the high-conflict parent.


            Originally posted by Tayken View Post
            I would strongly disagree. The OP of this thread is making up statistics in an attempt to make himself feel good about his situation. Instead of looking for solutions he is looking for validation that he is right. This is a very high-conflict pattern of behaviour. The constant allegations that he is a victim of the statistics is troubling and concerning.

            So much energy and attention if focused on the right things could benefit more people. Alas, that isn't the case... Just weird posts of video-game like statistics in an attempt to "statistically" prove people wrong. This just screams NPD and an inability to see beyond one's own problem.
            Actually, I think we agree on this point. The OP is a high-conflict individual and not among those that I would consider to have been victimized by a high-conflict person ... maybe I phrased it badly ...


            On a side note, I'd very interested to know what you do with the statistical analyses you run on Canlii data.

            Comment


            • #66
              Originally posted by plky View Post
              Yes, it happens to lots of women too. I belong to a group that is, coincidentally, made up almost entirely of custodial moms who have been alienated from their children by the non-custodial dads. This tells me that in extreme cases custody is irrelevant and the court's only remedy is to order no contact between the child and the high-conflict parent.
              Statistically speaking hostile aggressive parenting and parental alienation is a rare but, both genders are equally as good at dragging children improperly into the picture and conducting themselves this way. The family courts need to be integrated better with the mental health system. Early detection of these problems is key to solving the problem. More services in the mental health field need to be put in place that are *gender neutral* prior to things getting out of hand before the court.

              Section 30 of the CLRA is not the answer. OCL is not the answer. These service providers are often called after the damage has been done and the fight has gone on too long.

              Men and women can be equally bad parents.

              Originally posted by plky View Post
              Actually, I think we agree on this point. The OP is a high-conflict individual and not among those that I would consider to have been victimized by a high-conflict person ... maybe I phrased it badly ...
              The Honourable Mr. Justice Quinn phrased it best in Bruni v. Bruni in the first two paragraphs:

              [1] Paging Dr. Freud. Paging Dr. Freud.

              [2] Note the quote and the terminology he uses: "This is yet another case that reveals the ineffectiveness of Family Court in a bitter custody/access dispute, where the parties require therapeutic intervention rather than legal attention. Here, a husband and wife have been marinating in a mutual hatred so intense as to surely amount to a personality disorder requiring treatment.

              Now, a "personality disorder" isn't something that just evolves from litigation but, Justice Quinn is very wise in observing the mental health impact of a bitter custody/access dispute. Personality Disorders are a life-long struggle and generally are evident from childhood and developed over a long period of time. This is why the are so difficult to treat.

              Originally posted by plky View Post
              On a side note, I'd very interested to know what you do with the statistical analyses you run on Canlii data.
              Basically, it is being used to build a expert system that can process affidavit materials and other court records and cross map the vocabulary and statements with other systems (i.e. plagiarism checkers). The target is a multi layer system that can process affidavit materials served on a solicitor and identify through exact matching non-original content. Basically it will spit out a report that can be attached to a responding affidavit that will demonstrate the lack of originality and the true source of plagiarized text.

              I saw a very crafty father do this once for a motion. The mother's affidavit materials had a hit of about 75% that was mapped back to a pile of gender biased websites and books. I am talking "exact matches"... The evidence was quite revealing. The judge made a comment that all affidavit material should go through the same checks before making it on to her desk... That is where the idea came from.

              False allegations of "intimate partner abuse" follow a behaviour pattern model. So I use CanLII to learn this model and base the model on actual results and findings where explicit findings of false allegations are identified.

              It is a scrappy looking thing right now. Still trying to model the data... Big Data systems are no walk in the park to get working. Mashing the data is also very delicate for something like this... You can't just make crap up like the OP does...

              Good Luck!
              Tayken

              PS: One thing I would like to do is be able to map the emotional tone of the content in the materials to standardized psychological testing in some way to score it... Say against MMPI-II and other common tests. The problem is that matching to how someone would answer "would you like to own a gun" in MMPI-II from affidavit materials is a large gap to cross.

              Comment


              • #67
                can we move on now ?

                what i would like to see is 1000 posts that show Tayken is right - that the graphs are slanted cause of 'father no shows', and my experience and personal data is an exception. personally I would prefer that to the alternative.

                my data is :
                #cases 17
                #50/50 1
                #children with mother 14
                #children with father 2

                where your sure both mother/father showed up to court (edit: or custody deciding proceedings of any name ) please post :

                a. #number of cases
                b. #number of 50/50 's
                c. #number of with mother majority of time
                d. #number of with father majority of time

                Comment


                • #68
                  Originally posted by pokeman View Post
                  can we move on now ?

                  what i would like to see is 1000 posts that show Tayken is right - that the graphs are slanted cause of 'father no shows', and my experience and personal data is an exception. personally I would prefer that to the alternative.

                  my data is :
                  #cases 17
                  #50/50 1
                  #children with mother 14
                  #children with father 2

                  where your sure both mother/father showed up to court (edit: or custody deciding proceedings of any name ) please post :

                  a. #number of cases
                  b. #number of 50/50 's
                  c. #number of with mother majority of time
                  d. #number of with father majority of time
                  The courts don't track this statistic. Maybe your complaint is that the court system should track better statistics about matters brought to court and be accountable?

                  Furthermore, 1000 posts on a message board is a useless statistic. Especially when the silent majority doesn't "vote"... Especially on a message board.

                  Your "beef" should be that the courts don't track proper statistics on outcomes. Focus on that and bring it to the attention of the Attorney General.

                  Furthermore, the vast majority of separations and divorce do not require the intervention of the court. These matters that settle through alternative dispute resolution and settlement are not tracked nor is it easy to track them as settlements do not have to be registered with the court.

                  "Normal" parents who decide to separate and divorce generally don't need to go to the public courts to resolve disputes.

                  Good Luck!
                  Tayken
                  Last edited by Tayken; 05-11-2012, 06:30 AM.

                  Comment


                  • #69
                    Originally posted by Tayken View Post
                    Basically, it is being used to build a expert system that can process affidavit materials and other court records and cross map the vocabulary and statements with other systems (i.e. plagiarism checkers). The target is a multi layer system that can process affidavit materials served on a solicitor and identify through exact matching non-original content. Basically it will spit out a report that can be attached to a responding affidavit that will demonstrate the lack of originality and the true source of plagiarized text.

                    I saw a very crafty father do this once for a motion. The mother's affidavit materials had a hit of about 75% that was mapped back to a pile of gender biased websites and books. I am talking "exact matches"... The evidence was quite revealing. The judge made a comment that all affidavit material should go through the same checks before making it on to her desk... That is where the idea came from.

                    False allegations of "intimate partner abuse" follow a behaviour pattern model. So I use CanLII to learn this model and base the model on actual results and findings where explicit findings of false allegations are identified.

                    It is a scrappy looking thing right now. Still trying to model the data... Big Data systems are no walk in the park to get working. Mashing the data is also very delicate for something like this... You can't just make crap up like the OP does...

                    Good Luck!
                    Tayken

                    PS: One thing I would like to do is be able to map the emotional tone of the content in the materials to standardized psychological testing in some way to score it... Say against MMPI-II and other common tests. The problem is that matching to how someone would answer "would you like to own a gun" in MMPI-II from affidavit materials is a large gap to cross.
                    Wow, this is fantastic! Most seem to know that false allegations are a serious problem but there are certain stakeholders that continue to deny it so we really, REALLY need the hard evidence that your system could provide.

                    Not to mention it's potential as a deterrent. I would think if a solicitor knows their client's material will be checked in this way and, even better, is made accountable for submitting material that is plagiarised the incidence rate would drop dramatically.

                    For those that do submit plagiarised material, it would say a lot to a judge.
                    I work at a university where plagiarism checkers are used regularly and, despite knowing that the potential to be caught is there, there are always those who think they can fool the system. There's a certain audacity that is very revealing.

                    Man, what we would have given to be able to run my husband's ex's affidavit through your checker. Sigh.

                    Comment


                    • #70
                      i believe i have conducted myself rather well in this thread
                      so far i think its safe to say I have been sterotyped, labeled,
                      diagnosed with a disorder, said to be a high conflict person,
                      a ranter and so on.

                      tayken has ripped the lid of their own bag of prejudices saying
                      the graphs are tilted because 'Just a lot of lazy fathers who could care less'

                      tayken as also indicated they have made decisions based on ["based just on the posters here... and my(their) own "observations" the majority of complaining "fathers" failed to act appropriately]

                      am i not allowed to also draw conclusions from what I see ?


                      i am calm as i type this, i suppose the material is offensive to some
                      and it may come off as a rant , so you can choose not to read it I
                      suppose, but picture a man sitting on a couch sipping his coffee typing
                      this ... who wants to be objective but just cant see the light if it exists ...

                      -----------------------------------------------------------------
                      2010

                      i will start at this time the mother has every 2nd weekend and weds evening access.

                      some 9mths before the children transfered to their mother 3 lawyers and 1
                      judge meet in chambers, i was locked out forced to sit in Judges waiting room.

                      on the walk back to my lawyers office she told me 'they are going to
                      discriminate against you, thats just the way it is here'

                      i have no idea what that means ..

                      the children's therapy sessions are 2x month, as their school year comes
                      to an end the mother and children attend therapy together, she writes them
                      letters and apologies for what she as done.

                      the children are now on occassion asking me things like 'why do we live with
                      you dad, moms a girl and were girls, girls live together' ...

                      i dont have a major issue with what i just typed, in hind sight i believe
                      the chambers plan was to do a 50/50 split ... and it would coincide with the
                      childrens summer holidays

                      however, with the children now out of school they tell me they want to go
                      live with their mother ... so i let the oldest daughter go.
                      should i have held her - you cant go, wouldnt i then be labeled a typical
                      this or that ...

                      then my two other daughters say they want to go live with their mother , so
                      now i ask them why , they tell me they feel sorry for their mother, their
                      mother has suffered, she needs them , they are girls and their mother is a
                      girl and girls live together ...
                      they tell me enough that I now understand what the therapist was doing ...

                      I have my lawyer on the phone and I am all over the childrens lawyer and
                      yes, yes, yes indeed i am rather p1ssed at this point ...

                      i tell my lawyer to do something, the children have been coached, there
                      was no safety mechanism in place, the mother was promoted as the normal
                      parent to live with, the father not so much.

                      sympathy is a very strong emotion , how a child processes it is possibly
                      unpredicable, the children were bonded to their mother at a pivoting
                      moment in this file.

                      the mothers pitbul lawyer (as labeled by my lawyer) was in chambers, and
                      has already scheduled court for next school break in fall ,
                      at this time unknown to me the mother has moved out of the city

                      should I have tried to hold these children by force ?
                      as a parent can you comprehend coming home to your children and them
                      asking you to please let them go live with the other parent ?

                      i started my court journey to save these children from extreme abuse,
                      now they tell some 3yrs later they believe their mother is ok, and they
                      want to live with her.

                      -----------------------------------------------------------------

                      i dont really see the above as a rant, its just what happened to me and
                      i have put it to words so possibly you can understand some of the events

                      i let my lawyer go above, who then writes me there is nothing she could do about this (above), that they 'wanted to give her another chance'

                      i see extreme prejudice in the above and what the system did "collectively" .

                      my lawyer said it was 'the mothers fault' , i dont think so , i think they were reckless and acted in an unprofessional way trying to achive something on a schedule.

                      I think prejucides motivated them, and the fact the children are all girls
                      didnt help.

                      you wont find the above material anywhere in my file. you will someday see a chamber meeting, court order for me to take children to therapist and so on but you wont see the above, portions of what i typed above would be in several court transcipts of voice.

                      thats why my children are in the "+3 children with female" graph

                      did the court take my children away, did they steal them ... i dont what do you think ?

                      a different judge or perhaps some other influence may have caused a different outcome but the above is what i got.

                      i have written it here and you have the luxury of being the judge - i posted it and so i can take the critism - dont see that as whining, it did happen.

                      the graphs might indicate prejudice, they might indicate fathers that do
                      show , i have a small amount of data that says i am not alone :

                      #cases 17
                      #50/50 1
                      #children with mother 14
                      #children with father 2

                      i dont want to be proved right - but tayken stomping all over this thread is kinda suggesting the numbers are the norm ...
                      Last edited by pokeman; 05-11-2012, 12:51 PM. Reason: add 1 sentence - plus spacing

                      Comment


                      • #71
                        Originally posted by plky View Post
                        Wow, this is fantastic! Most seem to know that false allegations are a serious problem but there are certain stakeholders that continue to deny it so we really, REALLY need the hard evidence that your system could provide.
                        The matching to commonly published materials is the most promising first sweep results. The challenge is that my sample size of affidavit materials is too small. Going to the court house and getting materials is incredibly slow and not very cost effective. Scanning in 1000+ continuing records takes a very long time.

                        The major serious problem with false allegation is two fold.

                        1) The person who the allegations are being made against. False allegations are just as damaging as incidents of "intimate partner abuse" and this is well recognized in the clinical community.

                        2) The people who REALLY need to raise these allegations, have the matter dealt with and NEED the protection. Every time the court makes a finding of false allegations of intimate partner abuse it raises questions all over the system as to how much it happens. What is relevant with "emotional abuse" and what is really "true" about abuse? This could have a dangerous impact on those truly in need of the court. THIS is my biggest concern.

                        Originally posted by plky View Post
                        Not to mention it's potential as a deterrent. I would think if a solicitor knows their client's material will be checked in this way and, even better, is made accountable for submitting material that is plagiarised the incidence rate would drop dramatically.
                        Any allegation of child abuse, intimate partner abuse, et all... needs to be handled up front and with white gloves. The truisms (behaviour patterns) that drive family court should not be used as a litigation tool to get sole custody and supervised access against any parent. Shaw v. Shaw brings this to light but, what has improved to resolve the problem both for victims of false allegations and victims of intimate partner abuse?

                        Originally posted by plky View Post
                        For those that do submit plagiarised material, it would say a lot to a judge. I work at a university where plagiarism checkers are used regularly and, despite knowing that the potential to be caught is there, there are always those who think they can fool the system. There's a certain audacity that is very revealing.
                        Solicitors are very audacious people in general. There have been studies of the mental health status of solicitors and many score every high in ego (narcissistic behaviour). Once a lawyer finds out how to manipulate the system to get what their client wants... The pattern of behaviour repeats itself. The affidavit materials become rubber stamp allegations from all their clients. One has to question what the law society is doing about this problem.


                        Originally posted by plky View Post
                        Man, what we would have given to be able to run my husband's ex's affidavit through your checker. Sigh.
                        Scan them in and OCR them... The majority of systems out there will match up the allegations... If you get a big enough match you may find yourself with an opportunity to demonstrate a "change in circumstance".

                        Good Luck!
                        Tayken

                        Comment


                        • #72
                          Originally posted by pokeman View Post
                          i believe i have conducted myself rather well in this thread
                          so far i think its safe to say I have been sterotyped, labeled,
                          diagnosed with a disorder, said to be a high conflict person,
                          a ranter and so on.

                          tayken has ripped the lid of their own bag of prejudices saying
                          the graphs are tilted because 'Just a lot of lazy fathers who could care less'

                          tayken as also indicated they have made decisions based on ["based just on the posters here... and my(their) own "observations" the majority of complaining "fathers" failed to act appropriately]

                          am i not allowed to also draw conclusions from what I see ?


                          i am calm as i type this, i suppose the material is offensive to some
                          and it may come off as a rant , so you can choose not to read it I
                          suppose, but picture a man sitting on a couch sipping his coffee typing
                          this ... who wants to be objective but just cant see the light if it exists ...

                          -----------------------------------------------------------------
                          2010

                          i will start at this time the mother has every 2nd weekend and weds evening access.

                          some 9mths before the children transfered to their mother 3 lawyers and 1
                          judge meet in chambers, i was locked out forced to sit in Judges waiting room.

                          on the walk back to my lawyers office she told me 'they are going to
                          discriminate against you, thats just the way it is here'

                          i have no idea what that means ..

                          the children's therapy sessions are 2x month, as their school year comes
                          to an end the mother and children attend therapy together, she writes them
                          letters and apologies for what she as done.

                          the children are now on occassion asking me things like 'why do we live with
                          you dad, moms a girl and were girls, girls live together' ...

                          i dont have a major issue with what i just typed, in hind sight i believe
                          the chambers plan was to do a 50/50 split ... and it would coincide with the
                          childrens summer holidays

                          however, with the children now out of school they tell me they want to go
                          live with their mother ... so i let the oldest daughter go.
                          should i have held her - you cant go, wouldnt i then be labeled a typical
                          this or that ...

                          then my two other daughters say they want to go live with their mother , so
                          now i ask them why , they tell me they feel sorry for their mother, their
                          mother has suffered, she needs them , they are girls and their mother is a
                          girl and girls live together ...
                          they tell me enough that I now understand what the therapist was doing ...

                          I have my lawyer on the phone and I am all over the childrens lawyer and
                          yes, yes, yes indeed i am rather p1ssed at this point ...

                          i tell my lawyer to do something, the children have been coached, there
                          was no safety mechanism in place, the mother was promoted as the normal
                          parent to live with, the father not so much.

                          sympathy is a very strong emotion , how a child processes it is possibly
                          unpredicable, the children were bonded to their mother at a pivoting
                          moment in this file.

                          the mothers pitbul lawyer (as labeled by my lawyer) was in chambers, and
                          has already scheduled court for next school break in fall ,
                          at this time unknown to me the mother has moved out of the city

                          should I have tried to hold these children by force ?
                          as a parent can you comprehend coming home to your children and them
                          asking you to please let them go live with the other parent ?

                          i started my court journey to save these children from extreme abuse,
                          now they tell some 3yrs later they believe their mother is ok, and they
                          want to live with her.

                          -----------------------------------------------------------------

                          i dont really see the above as a rant, its just what happened to me and
                          i have put it to words so possibly you can understand some of the events

                          i let my lawyer go above, who then writes me there is nothing she could do about this (above), that they 'wanted to give her another chance'

                          i see extreme prejudice in the above and what the system did "collectively" .

                          my lawyer said it was 'the mothers fault' , i dont think so , i think they were reckless and acted in an unprofessional way trying to achive something on a schedule.

                          I think prejucides motivated them, and the fact the children are all girls
                          didnt help.

                          you wont find the above material anywhere in my file. you will someday see a chamber meeting, court order for me to take children to therapist and so on but you wont see the above, portions of what i typed above would be in several court transcipts of voice.

                          thats why my children are in the "+3 children with female" graph

                          did the court take my children away, did they steal them ... i dont what do you think ?

                          a different judge or perhaps some other influence may have caused a different outcome but the above is what i got.

                          i have written it here and you have the luxury of being the judge - i posted it and so i can take the critism - dont see that as whining, it did happen.

                          the graphs might indicate prejudice, they might indicate fathers that do
                          show , i have a small amount of data that says i am not alone :

                          #cases 17
                          #50/50 1
                          #children with mother 14
                          #children with father 2

                          i dont want to be proved right - but tayken stomping all over this thread is kinda suggesting the numbers are the norm ...

                          if you missed the post above due to over lap post then i should also now add there is only 1 issue that human rights will hear based on above - i was sold a service by a therapist whom based on my sex discriminated against me.

                          wish me luck ...

                          Comment


                          • #73
                            Originally posted by pokeman View Post
                            i believe i have conducted myself rather well in this thread so far i think its safe to say I have been sterotyped, labeled,
                            diagnosed with a disorder, said to be a high conflict person,
                            a ranter and so on.
                            You post irrelivant statistics that have been manipulated to suit your own personal adjenda that have no grounding in fact. Previously in the thread sightings to actual studies of the statistics demonstrating your bias and mistakes were provided. You disregard facts consistently. More than enough posters have already pointed this out.


                            Originally posted by pokeman View Post
                            tayken has ripped the lid of their own bag of prejudices saying
                            the graphs are tilted because 'Just a lot of lazy fathers who could care less'
                            Thank you for your emotional reasoning on that and trying to site something by making it up. More evidence to your cognative distortions. When you are going to say I said something... Provide the quote... Where did I say exactly what you said. See how your cyclic reasoning works? You make broad statements not based on facts but, your emotional reasoning and distorted thinking. You provide no evidence.

                            [QUOTE=pokeman;94822
                            tayken as also indicated they have made decisions based on ["based just on the posters here... and my(their) own "observations" the majority of complaining "fathers" failed to act appropriately[/quote]

                            Again, more demonstration of manipulative quoting. Thanks for providing further evidence to your cyclic reasoning.

                            [QUOTE=pokeman;94822
                            am i not allowed to also draw conclusions from what I see ?
                            [/quote]

                            So long as your conclusions are based on facts and not emotional reasoning sure. You have no facts to backup any of your "story".

                            [QUOTE=pokeman;94822
                            i am calm as i type this, i suppose the material is offensive to some
                            and it may come off as a rant , so you can choose not to read it I
                            suppose, but picture a man sitting on a couch sipping his coffee typing
                            this ... who wants to be objective but just cant see the light if it exists ...[/quote]

                            Your description of yourself doesn't match the thread unfortunately.

                            Please provide your CanLII link or your court file number. The evidence to what you are saying is part of the public record. You can provide it and the proper evaluation of "injustices" you talk about can be investigated. I would be more than willing to leverage my knowledge base and provide cogent and relevant evidence in support of my arguments counter to your hearsay.

                            Reality is... Everything you publish has no backing facts... They are all drawn from your perception of what happened... Not what actually happened. For anyone to determine the truth you will need to provide your court record and jurisdiction for which the materials are filed.

                            Simply put... Your story is bland, no different than all the disgruntled "fathers rights" sites out there and you provide no solutions as to how the "injustices" you speak of could be even remotely resolved.

                            Good Luck!
                            Tayken

                            Comment


                            • #74
                              Originally posted by Tayken View Post

                              ...

                              Simply put... Your story is bland, no different than all the disgruntled "fathers rights" sites out there and you provide no solutions as to how the "injustices" you speak of could be even remotely resolved.

                              Good Luck!
                              Tayken
                              tayken obviosly your saddled with prejudices - sorry for you on that point,
                              your an excellent wordsmith but when all is said and done i wonder has real life escaped you - can you no longer look out your window to see if its raining or must you only conclude its raining if someone has statistically proven it in a manner you find acceptable.

                              --

                              this thread is about 2.1 Million children placed primarly with 80% female when 1 child, the more children in a home the higher the %percentage of with female.

                              I can just look out my window and see its raining :

                              #cases 17
                              #50/50 1
                              #children with mother 14
                              #children with father 2

                              luckily those reading this can look out their own window to see if its raining prejudice and draw their own conclusions if work is needed to change it.

                              if work is needed then 50/50 legislated should correct it.

                              Good Luck!
                              Pokeman

                              Comment


                              • #75
                                Originally posted by pokeman View Post
                                tayken obviosly your saddled with prejudices - sorry for you on that point,
                                your an excellent wordsmith but when all is said and done i wonder has real life escaped you - can you no longer look out your window to see if its raining or must you only conclude its raining if someone has statistically proven it in a manner you find acceptable.

                                --

                                this thread is about 2.1 Million children placed primarly with 80% female when 1 child, the more children in a home the higher the %percentage of with female.

                                I can just look out my window and see its raining :

                                #cases 17
                                #50/50 1
                                #children with mother 14
                                #children with father 2

                                luckily those reading this can look out their own window to see if its raining prejudice and draw their own conclusions if work is needed to change it.

                                if work is needed then 50/50 legislated should correct it.

                                Good Luck!
                                Pokeman
                                Pokeman, you, as some others do, can be told over and over again that you are not right, yet you are oblivious, and ignore the reasonable arguments against your points. For your own good, you should accept that you are in fact not presenting a justified argument here - you misuse and misstate facts.

                                How about this pokeman...

                                An open simple question to the forum.

                                Does anyone think that pokeman is a rational person that is using facts in an appropriate way?

                                Anyone?

                                Comment

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