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  • #76
    Originally posted by arabian View Post
    In reviewing this thread I think that you initially indicated that you took issue with the father wanting children only on his time off. You felt this was unfair as you don't get the same consideration in your current schedule as weekends are your only time off.

    You have repeatedly stated that you have no issue with him spending more time with the children. The current arrangement 65/35 was what he requested (and you agreed to) 8 years ago. The two of you share holiday time.

    The father is a shift worker.

    Someone else in this thread raised an interesting point wondering how the two of you would have handled this if you were still together.

    Perhaps you and the father simply have to get together and figure out a schedule which is workable for everyone. Father says he doesn't want to pay for child care. If that is the case then he should be considering a different job perhaps but I agree with another poster that his issue with his employer isn't your problem.

    Perhaps ask the father to put down the boxing gloves for a period so the two of you can work out a new and improved schedule which takes both of your views into consideration.

    Few lawyers out there forewarn their clients of the huge cost of going to trial. From the first visit to a lawyer, after you fill out the financial information (including credit, assets, etc), the lawyer knows how far the litigation is likely to go. I bring this up because you might alert the father of this (and how lawyers will tell you what you want to hear as long as they are certain they will get paid) and propose the two of you get together and work something out before lawyers take the hard-earned money.


    If he does want to go to court I will for sure advise him of this. I don't think it will make it there though. I truly think it will be too much an expense for him.
    I don't think I have indicated that I am comfortable giving him more time - I am comfortable with keeping status quo. What I am comfortable with is giving him a better child support deal and giving more time in the summer, march break. Overall, this would increase his time marginally without affecting the school year arrangement. I am off the entire summer so I would be giving him time with his children when I am "off". Other posters, even Tayken who appears to have some legal connections, agreed that a judge won't think it fair that his proposed schedule asks for time on his days off only. This is to eliminate daycare - again tied to money.
    To address what happened when we were together - I was the main caregiver. He worked overtime at a feverish pace because I was at home with the kids so he could be banking money. Even some days he was off they often had to attend daycare if he was coming off night shift. The arrangement now is a pretty close reflection of what occurred in the marriage. This is why he agreed to it and wanted to keep it right from the start.
    I agree that there needs to be a dialogue. I am pretty hurt about all of this email bs he pulled last week and don't know what he is planning. My lawyer has told his that we are willing to negotiate so I think the ball is in his court.


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    • #77
      So in past 8 years you have had no problems from him wrt nasty emails? This is a new thing?

      Hopefully (probably after he gets bill from lawyer) he will reach out to you directly and the two of you can work something out. Perhaps he will better-clarify to you his reasoning for wanting a change. He may sincerely just want to spend more time with his children. If that is clearly/sincerely indicated to you and you can find a way to increase his time FAIRLY then you can move forward.

      I understand that daycare can be very expensive. I don't think it is unreasonable for someone to want to try to save money. Many people juggle schedules to try to reduce daycare costs. Perhaps the two of you can work out a schedule and come up with some alternatives to daycare? (I haven't had to use daycare for over 30 years LOL so do keep my remarks in perspective).

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      • #78
        Ange, it honestly sounds like the guy just wants more time with his kids.

        I think what Arabian meant when she said that you seem comfortable giving him more time is when you said things like "Maybe 50/50 in the future", etc. That indicates that you're comfortable.

        As posters pointed out early on, you seem to be most pissed about schedules, etc. Your ex is pissed about your denial of extra time and an equal relationship with the kids, hence e-mails, Dr. Office fights, etc. When one parent tells another parent they can not see their kids more .. yes it causes tension. It would if you were in his shoes also.

        Screw status quo. Your kids are on the verge of teenagehood and it would benefit them to have both parents fully involved "equally" in their life.

        For you there's this HUGE difference between 35% and 50% that I don't quite understand. It really irks you that he wants an equal relationship with his kids, but it shouldn't.

        The contents of this thread definitely suggest that there are no extenuating circumstances that should deny a 50/50 regime with the kids. He's been in their lives almost 50% of the time already for many years ... it's time to move to the next step.

        So in past 8 years you have had no problems from him wrt nasty emails? This is a new thing?
        Yes Arabian .. there have been a lot of "new" things since he's asked for more time. That's what I'm saying. If she goes in to court with this a judge will notice also.
        Last edited by LovingFather32; 01-07-2017, 12:02 PM.

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        • #79
          Originally posted by Ange71727 View Post
          I HAVE considered a reduction in custody. I just think that less time with them would be detrimental to my kids. I would have to explain why daddy is getting less time now because they would need justification at their ages.
          Initially you said they didn't want to go there. Now they would be heartbroken if dad had less time? I agree with the latter for sure. Your kids obviously love their father very much. An equal relationship with both parents would do them very good.

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          • #80
            Let's say, just for argument, the mother is a teacher and the father is a cop. One works 10 months a year (shadowing same school schedule as children). I wonder if the father's schedule is static or the same year-round? How do other parents, in similar occupations, effectively and fairly share custody? How does it affect children (school and extracurricular interests)? I would think that the father would have to be very committed to ensuring as little disruption to the children's schedule as possible. Do these 2 live in relative close proximity to each other? How involved are grandparents?

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            • #81
              Originally posted by arabian View Post
              Let's say, just for argument, the mother is a teacher and the father is a cop. One works 10 months a year (shadowing same school schedule as children). I wonder if the father's schedule is static or the same year-round? How do other parents, in similar occupations, effectively and fairly share custody? How does it affect children (school and extracurricular interests)? I would think that the father would have to be very committed to ensuring as little disruption to the children's schedule as possible. Do these 2 live in relative close proximity to each other? How involved are grandparents?
              Very good question. If mom were to write to dad saying something like.. "Lets go for 50/50, but work on scheduling and agree on certain things to allow for minimal to no disruption in the kids schedules"....I bet my bottom dollar that dad would make it work somehow. So why not try it?

              I was a shift worker in group homes as a "Residential Counselor" but changed to a permanent day job on the school board with predictable hours, holidays off, etc to help facilitate my 50/50 schedule. Perhaps he might do something similar.

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              • #82
                I think both/either of the parties should look into their respective employee assistance packages and see if they can go for counselling to address the concerns.

                Yes LF32 you did a lot of remarkable things to ensure you would have 50/50. You bent over backwards to make it happen. There was no status-quo per se in your situation (8 months ?) whereas in this instance there exists an 8-year status quo. I'm not so sure that the father in this case would be prepared to do the same thing (change jobs). We have to remember that his desire to increase his parenting comes 8 years later which leaves the big question: why now? Also, the father seems to have initiated his new-found desire to increase his parenting with some extremely questionable behaviors (as stated by the poster ... doctor's office... poisonous emails). Father is in arrears with CS and has not made arrangement to repay. Father is not starting out on the right foot. I certainly don't blame the poster for having her back up and taking the stance she is taking. The father sounds like a prick to me and if it were me (thankfully not) I wouldn't give him the time of day. I'm a bitch though.

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                • #83
                  Originally posted by arabian View Post
                  So in past 8 years you have had no problems from him wrt nasty emails? This is a new thing?

                  Hopefully (probably after he gets bill from lawyer) he will reach out to you directly and the two of you can work something out. Perhaps he will better-clarify to you his reasoning for wanting a change. He may sincerely just want to spend more time with his children. If that is clearly/sincerely indicated to you and you can find a way to increase his time FAIRLY then you can move forward.

                  I understand that daycare can be very expensive. I don't think it is unreasonable for someone to want to try to save money. Many people juggle schedules to try to reduce daycare costs. Perhaps the two of you can work out a schedule and come up with some alternatives to daycare? (I haven't had to use daycare for over 30 years LOL so do keep my remarks in perspective).


                  Oh no, his isn't new. I have an abundance of nasty emails from the past 8 years. It's been ongoing and exhausting.
                  There would be no alternative to daycare, however the daycare will be coming to an end in the next couple of years as they get old enough. Ex wanted them to get themselves ready and out the door on their own this year, at the ages of 8 and 10 (one just turned 9) so that indicates more an interest in cost savings over safety of kids. I am certainly not comfortable with that and turned it down. I wouldn't even allow it next year.


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                  • #84
                    Originally posted by LovingFather32 View Post
                    Ange, it honestly sounds like the guy just wants more time with his kids.

                    I think what Arabian meant when she said that you seem comfortable giving him more time is when you said things like "Maybe 50/50 in the future", etc. That indicates that you're comfortable.

                    As posters pointed out early on, you seem to be most pissed about schedules, etc. Your ex is pissed about your denial of extra time and an equal relationship with the kids, hence e-mails, Dr. Office fights, etc. When one parent tells another parent they can not see their kids more .. yes it causes tension. It would if you were in his shoes also.

                    Screw status quo. Your kids are on the verge of teenagehood and it would benefit them to have both parents fully involved "equally" in their life.

                    For you there's this HUGE difference between 35% and 50% that I don't quite understand. It really irks you that he wants an equal relationship with his kids, but it shouldn't.

                    The contents of this thread definitely suggest that there are no extenuating circumstances that should deny a 50/50 regime with the kids. He's been in their lives almost 50% of the time already for many years ... it's time to move to the next step.


                    Yes Arabian .. there have been a lot of "new" things since he's asked for more time. That's what I'm saying. If she goes in to court with this a judge will notice also.


                    I think that the contents of this thread show many valid points made by me and an incredible bias from a few people who are hell bent to make sure dad's have equality.

                    You don't think the motivation could possibly be money? So let's review then.....
                    -in arrears for almost a year since renegeing on agreement
                    -conflicts over monthly support payments leading to FRO filing
                    -never once supplying tax info even though it was requested every year (documented proof)
                    -a proposed schedule that would eliminate daycare for him and reduce significantly the CS

                    Plus, there are 2 other huge financial examples/incidents I could relay except that it is a public forum and I am already giving out many personal details.
                    Plus there is the question: why is he coming for this when his support has increased? Why not come 5 years ago?
                    You don't think a judge will see this??


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                    • #85
                      If he is continuously sending you offensive emails you could look into using the Family Wizard program or another like it. Program has been recommended by many courts in high-conflict situations. Idea is to keep communications child-focused and keeps parents in-the-loop regarding day to day activities. Perhaps suggest the use of this?

                      Keep the emails where he wants kids home alone for future use. Goes to show his poor parenting decisions. How does he propose the children, while in his care, get to school? Should the children stay with him, how long would his "day-care free" time subject children to being on their own?

                      Okay so the father is a he-slut who makes your attempt to instill morals and values in the children difficult. This is another issue that could be discussed with a counselor. I certainly wouldn't want my children exposed to this.

                      Has the father made any positive efforts to involve himself in school or extra-curricular activities with the children over the years? Has he presented any sort of a parenting plan to corroborate his future parenting aspirations?

                      Again, these issues could be addressed with an experienced counselor. Giving him the benefit-of-the-doubt you could suggest a venue where the two of you can discuss best interests of children going forward. What are your and the father's aspirations for children's academic future? Anything in the works for savings for college or university?

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                      • #86
                        Originally posted by Ange71727 View Post
                        I think that the contents of this thread show many valid points made by me and an incredible bias from a few people who are hell bent to make sure dad's have equality.

                        You don't think the motivation could possibly be money? So let's review then.....
                        -in arrears for almost a year since renegeing on agreement
                        -conflicts over monthly support payments leading to FRO filing
                        -never once supplying tax info even though it was requested every year (documented proof)
                        -a proposed schedule that would eliminate daycare for him and reduce significantly the CS

                        Plus, there are 2 other huge financial examples/incidents I could relay except that it is a public forum and I am already giving out many personal details.
                        Plus there is the question: why is he coming for this when his support has increased? Why not come 5 years ago?
                        You don't think a judge will see this??


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                        This forum has many posters who have had to fight tooth-and-nail for 50/50 so it stands to reason that they would have their own personal biases. That's ok though. You can learn a lot from their points of view. The questions that they pose you very well may be up against someday in the future if your matter ends up in the very expensive circus of case conferences. BECAUSE you have managed to keep things out of the courts for 8 years (I assume?) you might be able to work with your ex to come to some agreement.

                        Going to FRO is a good thing even for those who get along reasonably well post-separation. Keeping money out of the day-to-day fray of co-parenting is wise.

                        People are very intuitive when someone appears to be playing "gatekeeper" wrt access. i am not concerned about you doing that as you have clearly stated that you are open to father having increased parenting time.

                        There is nothing wrong with wanting finances straightened out. You need not feel you have to defend yourself as child support is the right of the child. If your ex has a half-assed decent lawyer he would be pressuring his client into getting his act together wgt arrears and providing financial disclosure in a timely manner. There certainly are legal steps you can take (filing a form) to get things rolling on this. The decision you would have to make is do you want to start up things in court (financial disclosure) or do you want to try to work things out another way?

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                        • #87
                          When did dad request 50-50? Was it a year ago when CS was supposed to increase? If so, is it possible he has refused to pay more until the access is settled? If he were to pay the increase and end up getting 50-50 it would be hard for him to change the amount as he is with FRO I assume? So yes maybe he is in arrears but he may be banking this money like it others are told to do in the event he has to pay the arrears.

                          If he has 35% access would you be willing to give him two extra days for 40% time? At 35% access he has 11 out of 31 days, increasing that to 13 out of 31 days would give him just over 40% access. Surely two extra days a month won't be harmful to the kids?

                          If the two extra days a month work well and the kids are doing well then maybe 6 months down the road you can add 2 more days for 15 days a month. That seems reasonable?

                          I don't think you have to agree Dad only gets his off days, although I'm sure the kids would rather be with him than a sitter given a choice, but propose a schedule that is fair to you both with you also maintaining weekends.

                          I wish I could agree with you but I don't see the harm in 4 extra days a month for a 50-50 parenting arrangement. That's just one extra day a week. Hopefully you and dad can work something out. I do wonder though, if it was 50-50 would that mean you owe dad CS?


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                          • #88
                            Originally posted by Berner_Faith View Post
                            When did dad request 50-50? Was it a year ago when CS was supposed to increase? If so, is it possible he has refused to pay more until the access is settled? If he were to pay the increase and end up getting 50-50 it would be hard for him to change the amount as he is with FRO I assume? So yes maybe he is in arrears but he may be banking this money like it others are told to do in the event he has to pay the arrears.

                            If he has 35% access would you be willing to give him two extra days for 40% time? At 35% access he has 11 out of 31 days, increasing that to 13 out of 31 days would give him just over 40% access. Surely two extra days a month won't be harmful to the kids?

                            If the two extra days a month work well and the kids are doing well then maybe 6 months down the road you can add 2 more days for 15 days a month. That seems reasonable?

                            I don't think you have to agree Dad only gets his off days, although I'm sure the kids would rather be with him than a sitter given a choice, but propose a schedule that is fair to you both with you also maintaining weekends.

                            I wish I could agree with you but I don't see the harm in 4 extra days a month for a 50-50 parenting arrangement. That's just one extra day a week. Hopefully you and dad can work something out. I do wonder though, if it was 50-50 would that mean you owe dad CS?


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                            All great points. This poster has been asked if she would give just an extra few days/week to get up to the 40% mark. She refuses to respond unfortunately.

                            Exactly, an extra few days per month wouldn't make much of a difference .... I'm still not sure what the big fight is about. Ahhhhhh....the 40% threshold. It's not about kids .... it's about money to BOTH parents.

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                            • #89
                              Originally posted by LovingFather32 View Post
                              All great points. This poster has been asked if she would give just an extra few days/week to get up to the 40% mark. She refuses to respond unfortunately.



                              Exactly, an extra few days per month wouldn't make much of a difference .... I'm still not sure what the big fight is about. Ahhhhhh....the 40% threshold. It's not about kids .... it's about money to BOTH parents.


                              You are so wrong. You hear what you want to hear! I think it's clear that I don't care about the money. I care about the well being of my kids. I have given several examples that bring into question dad's parenting choices. You don't even have all the facts!
                              Do you bully every poster who won't agree to 50-50 in the same way? I suspect that if I had the time (I don't) to review your previous posts to people, I'd bet that you are one of these people referenced above as having had to fight tooth and nail for 50-50. Congratulations if you have it. I hope you are as your profile name states! I am not alone in this world thinking that 50-50 doesn't work for all families. I have many reasons to believe as such. It doesn't mean I think dad is a godawful human being either. I didn't come on here to be put to trial but I do appreciate knowing what kinds of questions I may face. As Arabian stated above, if anything, that is what I have gained so far.
                              Excuse me if I should be so bold but perhaps you, and others, should focus more on being helpful instead of putting the poster on trial or admonishing her for a personal decision based on ALL the facts. It is possible that even without abuse, a 50-50 split isn't for everyone. In my opinion. I'm sure we will never agree though so perhaps you could spend your energy in another thread?



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                              • #90
                                Originally posted by Ange71727 View Post
                                You are so wrong. You hear what you want to hear! I think it's clear that I don't care about the money. I care about the well being of my kids. I have given several examples that bring into question dad's parenting choices. You don't even have all the facts!
                                Do you bully every poster who won't agree to 50-50 in the same way? I suspect that if I had the time (I don't) to review your previous posts to people, I'd bet that you are one of these people referenced above as having had to fight tooth and nail for 50-50. Congratulations if you have it. I hope you are as your profile name states! I am not alone in this world thinking that 50-50 doesn't work for all families. I have many reasons to believe as such. It doesn't mean I think dad is a godawful human being either. I didn't come on here to be put to trial but I do appreciate knowing what kinds of questions I may face. As Arabian stated above, if anything, that is what I have gained so far.
                                Excuse me if I should be so bold but perhaps you, and others, should focus more on being helpful instead of putting the poster on trial or admonishing her for a personal decision based on ALL the facts. It is possible that even without abuse, a 50-50 split isn't for everyone. In my opinion. I'm sure we will never agree though so perhaps you could spend your energy in another thread?



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                                So what's the huge difference between 35% and 40% or 50%?

                                How will your children be harmed at 40% but not 35%? Why a big court battle over a few extra days?

                                Nobody's bullying. The above doesn't make sense to a lot of us.

                                Will you call the judge a bully when he asks you this same question?

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