Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

passport disaster

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • #31
    Originally posted by Tayken View Post
    My advice stands. High conflict. Don't travel until you resolve the conflict.
    I can't agree more with this statement. It simply isn't worth it. Once I had the order, I could cross the border in peace, my kids got to enjoy the trip, their Dad and the moment even more. Simply Wait. Cancel the trip. Yes it's disappointing but cancel it and get everything in order first. I'm so sorry for this delay. Sadly, their are some parents that just won't ever get it. I'm headed to trial next month after 6 long years. Hoping you can get the resolve you need. All the best.

    Comment


    • #32
      Originally posted by vocalfather View Post
      I can't agree more with this statement. It simply isn't worth it. Once I had the order, I could cross the border in peace, my kids got to enjoy the trip, their Dad and the moment even more. Simply Wait. Cancel the trip. Yes it's disappointing but cancel it and get everything in order first. I'm so sorry for this delay. Sadly, their are some parents that just won't ever get it. I'm headed to trial next month after 6 long years. Hoping you can get the resolve you need. All the best.
      I already got an order to travel. She is to pass me the child's passport. It is in the court order. It's just that the other parent has to make everything so difficult. Every little thing. Reasonable or not. Final order or Interim order, doesn't matter - she will make it difficult.

      As per others stating to travel within Canada - it doesn't really make a difference - she will just withhold the child's identification - and say that she lost it. She refuses to pass me the child's health card when the child is with me. Health institutes have accepted to see her without a health card as they cannot refuse a child in need of medical need. The other parent just has to be as difficult as she possibly can be.

      Nothing wrong with travelling somewhere warm in the winter. Perhaps an educational field trip in disguise? Science? Geography ? Earth and sun Geometry?

      Who cares what the other parent wants or doesn't want as long as it's in the best interests of the child? We go to court to address the child's needs and best interests - not the custodial parent's wishes.
      Last edited by trinton; 12-20-2016, 11:28 AM.

      Comment


      • #33
        Originally posted by trinton View Post
        I already got an order to travel. She is to pass me the child's passport. It is in the court order. It's just that the other parent has to make everything so difficult. Every little thing. Reasonable or not. Final order or Interim order, doesn't matter - she will make it difficult.

        As per others stating to travel within Canada - it doesn't really make a difference - she will just withhold the child's identification - and say that she lost it. She refuses to pass me the child's health card when the child is with me. Health institutes have accepted to see her without a health card as they cannot refuse a child in need of medical need. The other parent just has to be as difficult as she possibly can be.

        Nothing wrong with travelling somewhere warm in the winter. Perhaps an educational field trip in disguise? Science? Geography ? Earth and sun Geometry?

        Who cares what the other parent wants or doesn't want as long as it's in the best interests of the child? We go to court to address the child's needs and best interests - not the custodial parent's wishes.
        Triton, I feel your pain buddy. I really do. Been there done that. I'm just talking bigger picture. I don't disagree with how your thinking at all. Just as someone who has walked this out, this is truly a step by step process with a lot of painful twists and turns. I've essentially been forced to trial and it's stuff like you mentioned above that is currently hurting her and will in the trial itself.

        Comment


        • #34
          Originally posted by vocalfather View Post
          Triton, I feel your pain buddy. I really do. Been there done that. I'm just talking bigger picture. I don't disagree with how your thinking at all. Just as someone who has walked this out, this is truly a step by step process with a lot of painful twists and turns. I've essentially been forced to trial and it's stuff like you mentioned above that is currently hurting her and will in the trial itself.
          I Appreciate that. I am headed down the same path. But will likely end up going for sole custody.

          Tell me more about the "bigger picture". I keep hearing bigger picture and "long game" and have my own understanding and interpretation of it. But want to hear what other parents definitions and interpretations of "bigger picture" and "long game" are.

          Comment


          • #35
            Triton, I have a really good Pastor friend that said this to me 6 years ago when I started down this road, "You have to lose some battles to win the war!". He was beyond right. I've had to swallow some BS in order to get here. It's been a painful 6 years. My X has abused legal aid, abused the medical system, abused my kids and in turn, as a Dad, I've been abused by the system. BUT....I've had to keep reminding myself that it's about the kids and about the end game. I've always tried to meet in the middle and I've always sat back while she shot herself in the foot. There's things you and I won't/can't be in control of. We have no ability to do anything except push ahead.

            I, also, have had to apply for sole custody after having equal/shared access/custody for 4.5 yrs for major mental health issues and abuse/neglect on the other parties behalf. It's been a hell of a ride. Thankfully, I'm almost there. Regardless of the outcome, I know I've had to get here and there will be some much more firm boundaries put in place.

            So you gotta ask yourself, are you willing to lose some battles to win the war? Are you prepared to feel likely the lowest/worst you've ever felt in your life in order to protect/support your kid(s)?

            I've been fairly silent on this board, been given some amazing advice/support and some not so great. I've balanced it all and had to make "work" what needed to work as each situation is so very different. I wish you all the best and PM anytime if you need to ask a question.

            Comment


            • #36
              Originally posted by vocalfather View Post
              as a Dad, I've been abused by the system.
              That is where we differentiate. I don't tolerate abuse from our justice system. I'm paying my taxes and I hold the judges and courts accountable. I know my rights, and I know my child's rights. If the system bullies you, you stand up for your rights. You don't let the system bully you. You stand up for what's wrong. And that's what being a good parent and a good citizen is all about sometimes.

              That is not to say that the courts are to blame or are at fault. Uncooperative and difficult parents are at fault. At the same time, if the courts were more careful about the terms of the final orders they issued (as they are ultimately responsible for ensuring that the order's are in the best interests of a child) and didn't take so long to resolve family disputes when they ended up right back in their courts - in the sense "Hi Walmart, I'm returning this product because it does not work as intended or advertised - I want to exchange it or I want my money back - ok sure , just give me 6 years to figure out why it's not working for you" , the parents would not be so emotionally and financially drained. The time that it takes for family law disputes to resolve in our courts in it's own is not in the best interest of children.

              It should be first appearance within 30 days of filing application, within 30 days case conference, +30 days for an assessment,+30 days for settlement conference, + 30 days to get all disclosure ready and set down a trial. Not 2 years later and you're still playing wack-a-mole with conferences.

              I could not imagine waiting 6 years to go on a vacation with my child. She will be a teenager by then and will want to hang out with her friends. I'm not giving up my child's childhood to our system. Not now, and not for the next 6 years.

              The logic you're using is, admit to be guilty, go to prison for the next 5 years, and then come out and enjoy your life with your children (if they're still children). Why fight for that right now ?
              Last edited by trinton; 12-20-2016, 01:36 PM.

              Comment


              • #37
                Originally posted by trinton View Post
                That is where we differentiate. I don't tolerate abuse from our justice system. I'm paying my taxes and I hold the judges and courts accountable. I know my rights, and I know my child's rights. If the system bullies you, you stand up for your rights. You don't let the system bully you. You stand up for what's wrong. And that's what being a good parent and a good citizen is all about sometimes.

                I could not imagine waiting 6 years to go on a vacation with my child. She will be a teenager by then and will want to hang out with her friends. I'm not giving up my child's childhood to our system. Not now, and not for the next 6 years.
                Oh no, I didn't say anything about taking or tolerating abuse. My situation, however, sadly had to somewhat play out. I had no choice. I also didn't have to wait 6 yrs to take a vacation. Advocate for your kids and stand up for what is right. As I said though, some thing you have ZERO control over.

                Comment


                • #38
                  Originally posted by vocalfather View Post
                  some thing you have ZERO control over.
                  You may not have control, but you certainly will always have options. As Eintstein said, I did not fail a 1000 times - I discovered a 1000 ways that didn't work.

                  Comment


                  • #39
                    Hi Trinton
                    I do not post here much anymore. I read here and there. I find there is some decent advise and a lot of "hear say" advise that really can send you in the wrong direction or pushes you into believing something is true when it is not.

                    With that I want to pass along my real court experience in which I faced almost the identical situation you are currently. Difference, I am mom and wanted the vacation and dad blocked me with the passport application. Although long and sorted situation. This event alone served two purposes and this is what I did and was successful.

                    1)Emergency motion is necessary. If the judge thinks it isn't an emergency he/she can be mad at you. She/he will deal with it anyways. Ask for the court to issue an order to dispense with mom's consent for passport application and dispense with travel consent. Offer to provide times/dates/locations but you do not need permission. Show proof of her blocking it.

                    2)Take this properly stamped dated signed order to passport office and any other temp, interim, final orders you have and ask passport official to send to the legal department immediately and rush. Show them proof of travel. They do this all the time. They have a massive legal department for this type of thing.

                    3)Pay passport office anything they want for the big rush.

                    4)Take all of these court orders with you vacation in case you are asked for them. Honestly I have never ever been asked for my court order or even a travel consent letter.

                    5)Don't wait for the conflict to subside. Your kids will be grown because sometimes it just never goes away. I have spent upwards of 9 years in court. Keep all of it from your kids and that piece of your life in a separate container and move on with your own life.

                    6)I said at the beginning this situation served 2 purposes. First obvious go on vacation. Second my ex lost his joint custody because of it. Proved that he was not able to put the best interest of the kids first.

                    Good Luck! No reason your child shouldn't go to Disney. Get moving to get it done

                    Comment


                    • #40
                      Originally posted by Tayken View Post
                      My advice stands. High conflict. Don't travel until you resolve the conflict.
                      What if your ex is just permanently high conflict? Are you supposed to never travel internationally with the kids until they are adults? What a lot of missed opportunities.

                      Comment


                      • #41
                        Originally posted by Rioe View Post
                        What if your ex is just permanently high conflict? Are you supposed to never travel internationally with the kids until they are adults? What a lot of missed opportunities.
                        Resolving conflict != being perfect happy co-parents. It has many resolutions. Like a proper court order that includes a detailed parenting plan that covers all sorts of things like travel. If you do not have the proper agreement/court order in place then you should (a) do that first and then (b) travel. If you do not have (a) done then don't think that (b) is going to be easy to do.

                        Resolve the conflict - through the courts, between the parents, through arbitration, etc... FIRST!

                        Comment


                        • #42
                          Originally posted by Tayken View Post
                          Resolving conflict != being perfect happy co-parents. It has many resolutions. Like a proper court order that includes a detailed parenting plan that covers all sorts of things like travel. If you do not have the proper agreement/court order in place then you should (a) do that first and then (b) travel. If you do not have (a) done then don't think that (b) is going to be easy to do.

                          Resolve the conflict - through the courts, between the parents, through arbitration, etc... FIRST!
                          If you've got an interim travel order that would contain everything that a final travel order would, what difference does it make if it is interim or final? If the parent is difficult they are going to be difficult regardless of the middle of the fight or the end of the fight. They may actually be more willing to cooperate in the middle of the fight to avoid it being used against them at a later date. Especially when your lawyer threatens urgent motions.

                          Looks like I'll be getting the passport. Nobody would want costs ordered against them just before Christmas.

                          Comment


                          • #43
                            Originally posted by trinton View Post
                            If you've got an interim travel order that would contain everything that a final travel order would, what difference does it make if it is interim or final?
                            If you have an order bring a contempt motion and seek your costs for the trip and legal fees. Also when you ask for the contempt ask for one of the stipulations to be that you can travel without the consent of the other parent and you hold the passports.

                            Originally posted by trinton View Post
                            If the parent is difficult they are going to be difficult regardless of the middle of the fight or the end of the fight. They may actually be more willing to cooperate in the middle of the fight to avoid it being used against them at a later date. Especially when your lawyer threatens urgent motions.
                            But, you did the right thing. Also you don't threaten motions. Everyone in this country has the right to bring a court action to resolve a dispute. It isn't a threat. Should the other parent have failed to follow what was agreed upon you have EVERY RIGHT to bring a motion for resolution of the dispute. Judges always roll their eyes when someone says "they threatened me with a motion". That is trying to play victim when you are allowed to bring court actions. The only time they can use this as a claim is if you have been declared a vexatious litigant.

                            Originally posted by trinton View Post
                            Looks like I'll be getting the passport. Nobody would want costs ordered against them just before Christmas.
                            More than likely the lawyer on the other side gave the parent in question a strong talking to about their conduct. You would have been able to claim the loss of the travel, tickets, etc.. as well as the legal costs. Also, you would have gained probably an order to what I mentioned above.

                            It is really a bad idea to play games like this. But, the first step in stopping the "gaming" in Family Law is a properly written agreement or order.

                            Good Luck!
                            Tayken

                            Comment


                            • #44
                              I have a great deal of respect for Tayken's advise. The theory and law is correct but in my experience family law doesn't actually follow that.
                              My two cents are a bit different. I did try the contempt motion for exactly this and I did win the motion.....eventually. It took about 7 months to work through the system. By that time vacation came and went, children disappointment and money lost. The judge almost laughed me out of the court room when asked for travel, tickets etc.. gave the other party a whopping fine of $500 that he never paid because wasn't classified as child support and my costs which he also did not pay.
                              Hate to say it but if what you are doing Trinton is working do it. Not sure where you live but here in the Durham Region of Ontario family law is very very broken.

                              Comment


                              • #45
                                The threat of a motion to get an order for your to get a passport without their involvement on it's own alone should be enough to get them to comply. The threat would be obviously made in friendly terms by your lawyer. Their lawyer would likely not want to represent them if they don't take their lawyers advice.

                                Contempt motions don't go hand in hand for joint-custody. Or so I have heard.
                                Last edited by trinton; 12-21-2016, 04:14 PM.

                                Comment

                                Our Divorce Forums
                                Forums dedicated to helping people all across Canada get through the separation and divorce process, with discussions about legal issues, parenting issues, financial issues and more.
                                Working...
                                X