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  • #76
    People are allowed to be bad parents. If we used ones parenting skills as barometer for who is allowed to parent, many parents wouldn't be allowed to look after their own kids (whether as a couple or individually).

    So long as the child isn't at risk of serious neglect, physical or mental harm, every parent in this world is entitled to parent as much as the next person. Lets be real here, there are tons of bad parents in the world. But just because they are a bad parent doesn't mean we are entitled to prevent them from being a parent. Why is it like this? Because who establishes the measurement for who is a good parent vs who is a bad parent? Is it you, me, or someone else? And as bad as some parents may be, they likely still provide some positive aspects for the child.

    50/50 as a default is where it should begin. The slope would then slide case by case from there, depending the needs of each specific situation. Having the opportunity to be an equal parent should not be an uphill battle, even if your parenting skills aren't exactly equivalent.

    Yes, there are definitely instances where it is not ideal and should not be ordered as the evidence provided argues heavily against it. And in those cases the judge has the discretion to act accordingly.

    Comment


    • #77
      Originally posted by HammerDad View Post
      People are allowed to be bad parents. If we used ones parenting skills as barometer for who is allowed to parent, many parents wouldn't be allowed to look after their own kids (whether as a couple or individually).

      So long as the child isn't at risk of serious neglect, physical or mental harm, every parent in this world is entitled to parent as much as the next person. Lets be real here, there are tons of bad parents in the world. But just because they are a bad parent doesn't mean we are entitled to prevent them from being a parent. Why is it like this? Because who establishes the measurement for who is a good parent vs who is a bad parent? Is it you, me, or someone else? And as bad as some parents may be, they likely still provide some positive aspects for the child.

      50/50 as a default is where it should begin. The slope would then slide case by case from there, depending the needs of each specific situation. Having the opportunity to be an equal parent should not be an uphill battle, even if your parenting skills aren't exactly equivalent.

      Yes, there are definitely instances where it is not ideal and should not be ordered as the evidence provided argues heavily against it. And in those cases the judge has the discretion to act accordingly.
      Excellent, brilliant post!!! Thank you, HD.

      Comment


      • #78
        When you enter into a sep agreement you are bound by the terms you signed for. If you want to make changes to that legal contract then you have to prove it in court.

        50/50 doesn't work for everybody. That's the sad truth. Too many people choose not put their children first.

        Comment


        • #79
          Originally posted by wantmyfreedom View Post
          When you enter into a sep agreement you are bound by the terms you signed for. If you want to make changes to that legal contract then you have to prove it in court.

          50/50 doesn't work for everybody. That's the sad truth. Too many people choose not put their children first.
          Just wondering, who decides if it does or doesn't and when.

          Comment


          • #80
            Usually the parents come to some type of an agreement.

            If not

            then it's a judge.

            Comment


            • #81
              Originally posted by wantmyfreedom View Post
              Usually the parents come to some type of an agreement.

              If not

              then it's a judge.
              Oftentimes parents cannot reach any type of an agreement because one of the parents (usually the dictatorial one, "my way or the highway" parent) wont agree on anything if it's not in that parent's favor.

              Please tell me, who do you think is the parent who usually decides/dictates the initial custody and creates the status quo by lying, deceiving, manipulating, prohibiting the other parent's access at the split time, a father or a mother.

              That's exactly why we are here, because some parents take the decision making power in their own hands, manipulate the system, and unilaterally decide that the other parent does not deserve any parenting, let alone equal one. Do you think it is fair? (Again and again, I do not talk about abuse, etc).

              That's exactly what HD posted above: 50/50 as a default is where it should begin.

              But that's not the reality we are facing in real life, when $50-$100K later, after all the convincing, talking, laywers' letters exchange etc, the judge finally decides the custody. Just don't even mention about the status quo. I know all too well how it is done, I sense you know it too.

              In the case I personally know, there is a split 70/30 not because the father who has 30 is not capable, or lazy, or was afraid of the poo in the child's diapers, or was absent (he was prohibited to see the child just so you know by the dictatorial parent) or whatever you can tell me, but because I SAD SO! and I can tell you exactly what this so called "I said so" parent was REALLY fighting for: money. The best interest of the child in question was the very last thing on the mind of that creature. What the other parent had as an option? You tell me! Now if the 30% parent will start fighting for an access increase (and he definetly will), then what are you gonna tell him "Oh, sorry, status quo!", - right? WRONG!

              And again and again:
              50/50 as a default is where it should begin.

              Comment


              • #82
                Bad conduct doesn't have a gender bias. There are both mothers and fathers out there that do not put their children first.

                What is behind their bad conduct? That is not a question for me to answer.

                One can only ponder. I'm not willing to entertain their problems.

                Comment


                • #83
                  Originally posted by wantmyfreedom View Post
                  Bad conduct doesn't have a gender bias. There are both mothers and fathers out there that do not put their children first.

                  What is behind their bad conduct? That is not a question for me to answer.

                  One can only ponder. I'm not willing to entertain their problems.
                  Oh yes it does in family court in Canada.

                  It is time to let the Canadian public know that men facing separation and divorce are not being dealt with fairly. And if men are not being treated fairly, that means that their children are likewise suffering. But while we are so concerned with such issues, let us not forget that there are many women, particularly poor women and native women who likewise quite often are not being treated well by the courts, particularly in the child welfare field. There are women who are married to very wealthy individuals; these rich guys tend to abuse the court system with their high priced counsel in order to pound their wives into submission. All those women deserve our support because justice, fairness and equity should cut across gender lines.

                  There was a time when women as a group were not being treated fairly; that was wrong and it has now been largely remedied. But the pendulum has swung too far in the opposite direction. Now it is men who face discrimination in the family courts. Court cases must be decided upon the real evidence and not on myths. I call upon all those involved in our legal system to meet the challenge. Changes can be made but we require a significant shift in attitudes.


                  I would just like to close now with another quote from that father in Edmonton. His words are from the heart. It is the task of those who truly care, to take positive and resolute action in order to transform the heartfelt words from Edmonton into attitudinal change and therefore into enlightened, just public policy. That father states:
                  The lies that women get away with about Fathers must stop! The courts must see who is the better parent, for the children, and not just because that parent is a woman. After all, it is what's best for our children and the children of the future, that we all get together and make our laws fair for women and men, mothers and fathers, but mainly for our Sons and Daughters.
                  Gender Bias in the Family Courts of Canada: Fact or Fantasy?

                  Presentation to Fathers Are Capable Too ( F.A.C.T.) Tuesday, March 16, 1999
                  Gene C. Colman is a leader in family law in Ontario and throughout Canada. He is a founder of the "Canadian Journal of Family Law," a highly respected legal author, and a strong advocate of equal parenting and procedural fairness.
                  I can be wrong as I was not dealing with the family court system at that time but it looks like nothing or very little has changed since March 16, 1999.

                  Here I go again like a broken record (and I will repeat it one million time more). The custody at the split between the spouses/partners/parents etc must be 50/50 by default and then court to decide what is best for the children, not someone motivated by money and control.
                  Last edited by Mother; 11-25-2014, 11:36 PM.

                  Comment


                  • #84
                    Originally posted by wantmyfreedom View Post
                    ...
                    He will have to provide very compelling evidence to the justice hearing the matter. You can't just walk in and out of your kid's lives because you feel like it...
                    I don't think there is any real evidence of that happening, (beyond some conflicting vague statements from OP).

                    Comment


                    • #85
                      1234567890
                      Last edited by stripes; 11-26-2014, 12:48 AM. Reason: Wrote reply to italicized rant cut-n-pasted by Mother, then realized I wasn't really advancing the discussion so deleted it.

                      Comment


                      • #86
                        Originally posted by Mother View Post
                        Oh yes it does in family court in Canada.

                        It is time to let the Canadian public know that men facing separation and divorce are not being dealt with fairly. And if men are not being treated fairly, that means that their children are likewise suffering. But while we are so concerned with such issues, let us not forget that there are many women, particularly poor women and native women who likewise quite often are not being treated well by the courts, particularly in the child welfare field. There are women who are married to very wealthy individuals; these rich guys tend to abuse the court system with their high priced counsel in order to pound their wives into submission. All those women deserve our support because justice, fairness and equity should cut across gender lines.

                        There was a time when women as a group were not being treated fairly; that was wrong and it has now been largely remedied. But the pendulum has swung too far in the opposite direction. Now it is men who face discrimination in the family courts. Court cases must be decided upon the real evidence and not on myths. I call upon all those involved in our legal system to meet the challenge. Changes can be made but we require a significant shift in attitudes.


                        I would just like to close now with another quote from that father in Edmonton. His words are from the heart. It is the task of those who truly care, to take positive and resolute action in order to transform the heartfelt words from Edmonton into attitudinal change and therefore into enlightened, just public policy. That father states:
                        The lies that women get away with about Fathers must stop! The courts must see who is the better parent, for the children, and not just because that parent is a woman. After all, it is what's best for our children and the children of the future, that we all get together and make our laws fair for women and men, mothers and fathers, but mainly for our Sons and Daughters.
                        Gender Bias in the Family Courts of Canada: Fact or Fantasy?

                        Presentation to Fathers Are Capable Too ( F.A.C.T.) Tuesday, March 16, 1999
                        Gene C. Colman is a leader in family law in Ontario and throughout Canada. He is a founder of the "Canadian Journal of Family Law," a highly respected legal author, and a strong advocate of equal parenting and procedural fairness.
                        I can be wrong as I was not dealing with the family court system at that time but it looks like nothing or very little has changed since March 16, 1999.

                        Here I go again like a broken record (and I will repeat it one million time more). The custody at the split between the spouses/partners/parents etc must be 50/50 by default and then court to decide what is best for the children, not someone motivated by money and control.

                        Well then, that's quite a lengthy rant. Custody and access decisions are made with reference to the material reality of each family. It encompasses the relationships within it. It examines the factors that have a positive and negative impact on the children involved. The mandate is to ensure minimal disruption of a child's daily routine. So in essence 50/50 will not work for everyone. Some parents dont even ask for it ....so making it a default is not even warranted in some cases.

                        A few examples why 50/50 will not work:

                        Cases in which violence and coercive control are present.

                        The denial of access for malicious reasons

                        The recognition of "access" schedules with the ancillary effect of decreasing child support obligations. (both genders)

                        Comment


                        • #87
                          Originally posted by wantmyfreedom View Post
                          Well then, that's quite a lengthy rant. Custody and access decisions are made with reference to the material reality of each family. It encompasses the relationships within it. It examines the factors that have a positive and negative impact on the children involved. The mandate is to ensure minimal disruption of a child's daily routine. So in essence 50/50 will not work for everyone. Some parents dont even ask for it ....so making it a default is not even warranted in some cases.

                          A few examples why 50/50 will not work:

                          Cases in which violence and coercive control are present.

                          The denial of access for malicious reasons

                          The recognition of "access" schedules with the ancillary effect of decreasing child support obligations. (both genders)
                          The length of the 'rant' has no bearing on it's efficacy or quality.

                          "Making it a default" doesn't mean that people who want EOW will be forced to take their kids half the time, it means that people who want 50/50 will be able to get it without having to drop 50,000 in court costs just because the other parent "didn't want to give up their time with THEIR kids"

                          All of your examples in which it wouldn't work already apply in the existing system. They do little to prevent good parents from being denied 50/50 without just cause.

                          Comment


                          • #88
                            Any court battle will cost you thousands.

                            It isn't the system that you are fighting. It's the person you married.

                            Comment


                            • #89
                              Are we not getting off topic here? I thought was a no no. If you want to have a polictical discussion than start a thread in the policitcal section! Just saying. Because......😉

                              Comment


                              • #90
                                Well thats awesome that he's working things out and increasing his time with his kids. He will also have to explain why he wasn't there during his absence too. Accountabilty.

                                He will have to provide very compelling evidence to the justice hearing the matter. You can't just walk in and out of your kid's lives because you feel like it. The experts will probably suggest some type of a re integration plan to ease the transition.
                                I'm not sure if you read her posts...but the father has already done that. They have a signed sep agreement with him now having 30% access which he is using.

                                Now he is asking for increased access.

                                Its actually very good practice when a parent has a sketchy history of exercising access to have a ramped up plan until you get to equality. All this guy is asking for is...since he's proved himself at 30%...to now increase to a fair, equitable arrangement. Perfectly reasonable and she cites zero reason to deny his request. Its in the best interest of the children since he has no history of abuse.

                                She also mentioned that the judge asked about the potential for OCL involvement. Judges bring that up when they feel that they need expert evidence to make a decision. He agreed, she didn't. If there's a parenting issue, hopefully this OP changes her mind about OCL so that they can make an assessment of whether this father has now earned the right to have equal, fair access.

                                Again, this isn't about the OPs opinion of whether this guy meets her biased criteria to be an equal parent. Its about what's in the best interest of the children.

                                Comment

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