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  • Ex emotionally abusive towards kids

    Hi everyone,

    Looking for some advice.... My oldest daughter is almost 8, and has voluntarily come to my girlfriend and I three times in the last six months, mentioning things her mom has said to her, that have upset her. The basics are that mom has been threatening to call the police, to get her to stop crying, to stop asking to go to the bathroom so many times while out, if our daughter wouldn't do something that was asked of her.

    My ex has had a short temper with our oldest for the last 3 or 4 years, and it is very sad to see it getting worse now that I am out of the house. I even have an email from her saying she is "so f###ing sick of dealing with her"...

    Do I believe my daughter? ABSOLUTELY - I have witnessed this behavior first hand, and have been subject to it myself. Is it affecting her? I believe so - she has been having stomach problems, and every "confession" of these problems has come after a meltdown over little things...

    So finally, after this last occurrence, I immediately called CAS to make a report about it... I thought about contacting my ex first, but I am afraid she is going to take it out on our daughter, and worried about losing the trust of my child, that has been so hard to gain again in the first place. With great hesitation, I finally called CAS. Never heard anything for a bit, then find out my ex has moved (didn't notify me), and is in a different jurisdiction. With some prodding of friends and family, I find out where she is now, and contact the CAS there. I specifically asked the screeners to talk to me first BEFORE they contact her, to discuss my concerns with the situation. Nope, they contact her, give her a week to brainwash our daughter before meeting, give my ex a chance to talk to her lawyer before she talks to CAS... and end up basically doing nothing.

    CAS has failed to help me protect my daughter.... now where do I turn? I am considering trying to get a child psychologist to see her, but I am an EOWeeknd dad (not by choice - fighting that), and it is hard to get someone on the weekend. But I am concerned as well that it may be viewed negatively that I am getting a psychologist involved without ex's consent or knowledge. This is where I am looking for YOUR help ;-) Please, any experience?

    Thanks in advance!

  • #2
    CAS is biased towards men. There's nothing you can do about it. I reported my wife for strucking my son (with photos of the injuries) and all they did is put her on a 3 month supervision. After three months they declared case closed, no evidence of physical abuse even though I showed them photos.

    Your best bet is the psychologist upon consulting your lawyer. A good lawyer can take it to the Court and win custody for you.

    Don't count on CAS. They're all feminist bitches in there.

    Comment


    • #3
      That's a little inaccurate, my daughter has documentation of physical and emotional abuse to her daughter by the child's father, and Children's Aid refuse to even investigate... they won't even return her calls. They are overworked and unless a kid has had the living crap beat out of her and are in immediate danger they won't do anything. It doesn't matter which sex is doing the reporting.

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by formyGirls View Post
        Hi everyone,

        Looking for some advice.... My oldest daughter is almost 8, and has voluntarily come to my girlfriend and I three times in the last six months, mentioning things her mom has said to her, that have upset her. The basics are that mom has been threatening to call the police, to get her to stop crying, to stop asking to go to the bathroom so many times while out, if our daughter wouldn't do something that was asked of her.
        The CAS has specific guide lines for defining "emotional abuse" of children. What you are describing here in my opinion do not constitute emotional abuse but, it is all in the eye of the beholder at times.

        Different parents have different parental styles. There is no perfect way to parent and be careful how much you comment on your ex-wife's parental style.

        As your child is only 8 years old the interpretation of her events is that of an 8 year old child and will be seen by CAS as such. As well, a custody and access evaluator will probably take the same stance unless there is backing statements from her school and other care providers. By this I don't mean negative advocates whom you may have influenced.

        It is very difficult, as a parent to hear these odd statements from your child but, you have to always remember that they are coming from a child and with a child's perspective. It may be a complaint about a single incident and as such will more than likely be argued by the other parent as such.

        Originally posted by formyGirls View Post
        My ex has had a short temper with our oldest for the last 3 or 4 years, and it is very sad to see it getting worse now that I am out of the house. I even have an email from her saying she is "so f###ing sick of dealing with her"...
        Again, this email can be seen as irrelevant and "parental venting" by anyone investigating the matter. The other parent didn't say this directly to your child but a parent. Was the other parent appealing to you for assistance in a matter when this comment was made?

        The email may be seen by anyone reviewing it as a parent under stress for which many are. If the other parent has majority access and custody of your child it will be weighted against that.

        Originally posted by formyGirls View Post
        Do I believe my daughter? ABSOLUTELY - I have witnessed this behavior first hand, and have been subject to it myself. Is it affecting her? I believe so - she has been having stomach problems, and every "confession" of these problems has come after a meltdown over little things...
        If your daughter is having physical symptoms from any stress from the matrimonial dispute I highly recommend you seek counseling with the support of the other parent for your daughter. Psychosomatic pains often manifest themselves in children in high-conflict divorce situations for which you are clearly dealing with.

        I highly recommend you try to work cooperatively with the other parent in focusing on and addressing your child's needs versus gathering this as evidence for use in a future motion or other purpose. The better evidence is to demonstrate how you are working with the other parent on resolving the matter rather than insight conflict with the other parent.

        Do not project blame at the other parent. It is easy at times like this to fall prey to your worries about your daughter. But, if you allow your worries to overwhelm you it can work against you in the long run.

        Originally posted by formyGirls View Post
        So finally, after this last occurrence, I immediately called CAS to make a report about it... I thought about contacting my ex first, but I am afraid she is going to take it out on our daughter, and worried about losing the trust of my child, that has been so hard to gain again in the first place.
        In general, it may be best at these times to contact the other parent first and attempt to resolve the issue if you are permitted to. It demonstrates that you want to resolve problems not cause them.

        Originally posted by formyGirls View Post
        With great hesitation, I finally called CAS. Never heard anything for a bit, then find out my ex has moved (didn't notify me), and is in a different jurisdiction.
        I can only assume that when you mean "in a different jurisdiction" it is a different jurisdiction where your children primarily resided prior to the separation or where matters or the court of competent jurisdiction where these matters are being heard?

        As a parent you have a right, in my opinion, to know the location of your children and where they are sleeping every night. You can request this information yourself or through your solicitor. Failing response you can file a Form 20 Request for Information.

        I would have your solicitor contact the other solicitor to resolve the matter of your child's location. If the other parent is represented it is my opinion (i am no solicitor) that the solicitor is obligated to notify you of a change of residence for your children.

        I find it rather odd that you wouldn't know that the other parent has changed residences. Wouldn't it effect your daughter's enrollment in school and other activities?

        Originally posted by formyGirls View Post
        With some prodding of friends and family, I find out where she is now, and contact the CAS there. I specifically asked the screeners to talk to me first BEFORE they contact her, to discuss my concerns with the situation. Nope, they contact her, give her a week to brainwash our daughter before meeting, give my ex a chance to talk to her lawyer before she talks to CAS... and end up basically doing nothing.
        From reading this it appears that you were trying to influence CAS in the way you have described the situation. It appears you were attempting to persuade CAS to act the way you wanted them to which can be seen as a controlling pattern of behaviour.

        With little insight into the matter and only the paragraph you provided regarding the matter it appears you attempted to surprise the other parent with CAS rather than work out the issue with the other parent. CAS probably started their investigation with a negative view if this is indeed how you proceeded.

        CAS will not surprise the other parent generally unless there is solid evidence to immediate harm to a child. This requires a lot more evidence than a personal opinion on what a child has told a parent. Especially an 8 year old child.

        CAS may have seen this as a projection of blame by you and the attempt to use them to control the other parent or threaten them. CAS is only (in my opinion) useful in matters of immediate harm to a child. They do not police parenting nor should they.

        Originally posted by formyGirls View Post
        CAS has failed to help me protect my daughter.... now where do I turn? I am considering trying to get a child psychologist to see her, but I am an EOWeeknd dad (not by choice - fighting that), and it is hard to get someone on the weekend.
        No clinician will see your child unless you get consent from the other parent. I highly recommend that you seek consent with a view to helping your daughter rather than to collect evidence against the other parent. It is clear that you as a parent have concerns regarding your daughter's mental health but, sneaking around to a child psychologist is not the right approach in my opinion. Furthermore, no qualified child psychologist will see your daughter without consent from the other parent.

        It is a very bad idea to attempt to leverage a service provider, especially a new one that the other parent is not aware of, to gather evidence against the other parent.

        Originally posted by formyGirls View Post
        But I am concerned as well that it may be viewed negatively that I am getting a psychologist involved without ex's consent or knowledge. This is where I am looking for YOUR help ;-) Please, any experience?
        The court and any court appointed evaluator will look on this in a VERY negative light and context. Do not even attempt to do this without the other parent's consent. If you want to be involved in your daughters life then demonstrate this by working with the other parent, drop the quest to prove her wrong and work towards parenting your children.

        Furthermore, as stated previously no licensed child psychologist will accept your daughter as a client without the other parent's consent. There are serious practice violations that a clinician could face if they did accept your daughter as a client without the other parent's consent.

        Forgo the conflict if at all possible and demonstrate you can parent your children and put their needs before your own. Calling CAS and attempting to solicit help from a clinician on proving your daughter has emotional challenges can (and will be) taken with a negative inference against you more than likely.

        Good Luck!
        Tayken

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by mare21 View Post
          That's a little inaccurate, my daughter has documentation of physical and emotional abuse to her daughter by the child's father, and Children's Aid refuse to even investigate... they won't even return her calls. They are overworked and unless a kid has had the living crap beat out of her and are in immediate danger they won't do anything. It doesn't matter which sex is doing the reporting.
          Evidence is a subjective thing in family litigation. Statements from other parties although called evidence has to be weighted properly. Unless a doctor or a trusted service provider contacts CAS (or the police) then the matter generally doesn't constitute abuse and/or neglect and/or maltreatment.

          It is important to note that both sexes equally attempt to use CAS and other enforcement agencies in an attempt to control and threaten the other parent. This is reflected in the domestic violence statistics posted by statistics Canada at a roughly 50-50 basis between men and women.

          The vast majority of CAS (and law enforcement) calls are often from overanxious / over protective parents. CPS in the United States I believe has produced some statistical analysis on the occurrence and finding of parents with identified anxiety disorders in these matters. I tried to find the information but, the only information I can find is (c) and requires a fee to purchase.

          Repeated calls to CAS or the police by any parent with no resulting charge or investigation with a result often demonstrates a pattern of behaviour by an overanxious / over protective parent.

          CAS is not a weapon against the other parent. They are a service to assist children. Their focus is protecting children and not supporting family law litigation. Same with the police.

          Good Luck!
          Tayken
          Last edited by Tayken; 08-16-2011, 05:39 AM. Reason: Correction (grammar)

          Comment


          • #6
            Don't count on CAS for anything. I never called them to report my ex's abuse, but both my children's therapists did.....numerous times for different incidences. These professionals are as frustrated by CAS as I am. No one governs them, so they have no one to really answer to when they screw up.

            Follow the advice of Tayken and try and get consent from her mother, to get your daughter in therapy. That social worker/psychologist may report more to the CAS, and CAS won't do anything, but at the very least, your daughter will be getting therapy and will learn how to cope with the aubse. Sad, but true.

            Comment


            • #7
              Thanks for your input all, both the support and criticisms. I had a chance to confirm with the family doctor today that she has already referred my daughter to a child psychologist, in a previous appointment with my ex.

              I will be writing my ex to find out why my daughter hasn't gone, and using this to help get her to see someone. Thinking if my ex won't take her, should I proceed with a motion to try and get an order that she attend counselling? Pretty sure the doctor will write a letter backing my request. Any opinions or experience with this anyone?

              At the end of the day, I have come to accept the reality in my situation that there is little chance I will ever gain significantly more access to my kids or see custody changed- and thus am not simply trying to gather evidence to do so. But I do have an 8 year old daughter who is being treated like crap emotionally, and has no way of escaping the situation when it gets bad or is able to let anyone else know about it. I can't understand any circumstances in which it us appropriate to threaten an 8 year old with calling the police on them if they interrupt dinner once more to go to the washroom, or won't stop crying, or won't go to bed.

              To terrify your kids because you are stressed and can't deal with things is at no times acceptable. Just because it is bad parenting doesn't make the abuse right.

              Comment


              • #8
                I can totally relate. I have a son who is constantly being made fun of by his father. My son cries every time he has to go to his dad's and every time he comes home. It's heartbreaking.

                I hope things get better for your daughter.

                Comment


                • #9
                  If you ex is that batshit crazy, then you can secure more time. True colors will eventually come out, but you have to buck in for the long haul.

                  In another 4 years your daughter will have a voice in her living arrangements. Try and get consent from your ex to get your daughter to the psychologist, even if it means taking the time off work to do so. If your ex refuses, get your lawyer in gear to have a motion heard to force your ex to allow it.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by formyGirls View Post
                    Thanks for your input all, both the support and criticisms. I had a chance to confirm with the family doctor today that she has already referred my daughter to a child psychologist, in a previous appointment with my ex.
                    Depending on the custody order in place with the other parent the other parent may have been in full rights to seek this request and go through with it. This doesn't negate the fact that the other parent should have had to inform you. It sounds from what you have said that there is no barriers with regards to getting health information about your daughter which is good.


                    Originally posted by formyGirls View Post
                    I will be writing my ex to find out why my daughter hasn't gone, and using this to help get her to see someone.
                    Don't be accusatory. Take it from the position you think your daughter needs help with the transition and you think the recommendation from the family practitioner is a wise and good one and that you support it. Also, offer assistance in how you can help insure that your daughter can receive the appropriate health care as recommended by her primary health care provider.

                    Be cooperative and not accusatory in nature.

                    Originally posted by formyGirls View Post
                    Thinking if my ex won't take her, should I proceed with a motion to try and get an order that she attend counselling? Pretty sure the doctor will write a letter backing my request. Any opinions or experience with this anyone?
                    What does your solicitor say about going for a motion on this subject? My recommendation would be to make a solid effort to work out the issue with the other parent. Motions are potentially a high-conflict way of dealing with your daughters health care needs.

                    If you do have to go on motion to address the issue. Insure you don't blame the other parent for the challenges your daughter is having. Address the challenges and why you feel it is in your daughter's best interests to attend counselling. Motions are the expensive route.

                    Also, be aware that if you do take the matter to motion and a judge disagrees with your opinion and doesn't rule in your favour you could be paying the other side's costs. This is something to consider every time you take a matter to court.

                    Originally posted by formyGirls View Post
                    At the end of the day, I have come to accept the reality in my situation that there is little chance I will ever gain significantly more access to my kids or see custody changed- and thus am not simply trying to gather evidence to do so.
                    How did the current custody and access arrangement get put in place? There are several factors impacting your ability to increase your custody and access with your daughter.

                    From previous information provided you sound like you have EoW which generally comes with soul custody to the other parent.

                    I can only assume that this arrangement was ordered for a specific reason. Hopefully you didn't agree on consent to this agreement on custody and access. It is hard to break the status quo and explain to a justice why you feel that you should have increased access and custody now. Especially if you consented away your custody and access.



                    Originally posted by formyGirls View Post
                    But I do have an 8 year old daughter who is being treated like crap emotionally, and has no way of escaping the situation when it gets bad or is able to let anyone else know about it.
                    Encourage your daughter to talk to her teacher. Should the teacher feel that what your daughter is raising to her in private constitutes abuse/neglect/maltreatment it legally has to be addressed by the teacher.

                    Originally posted by formyGirls View Post
                    I can't understand any circumstances in which it is appropriate to threaten an 8 year old with calling the police on them if they interrupt dinner once more to go to the washroom, or won't stop crying, or won't go to bed.
                    Again, this is potentially a matter of different parental styles. But, if it is having an emotional impact on your daughter it needs to be addressed but, it may be your daughter's interpretation of events. I have no doubt that your daughter may have some anxiety about the situation but, it may very well be the parents in this situation who are causing the problem and not one single parent's actions. Take a long hard look at how you have conducted yourself with regards to the litigation. Do you want your daughter to have this kind of relationship with a future father to her children?

                    Children learn by example. Set a good example and things can get better. Trying to find someone to blame for your daughter's emotional state only drives more conflict and doesn't address your daughter's best interests.

                    Originally posted by formyGirls View Post
                    To terrify your kids because you are stressed and can't deal with things is at no times acceptable. Just because it is bad parenting doesn't make the abuse right.
                    In psychology "terrify" is a very strong word to use. If indeed your daughter is experiencing "terror" it could lead to long-term mental health conditions.

                    It may be terrifying for you as a parent to see your daughter's reaction but, truly is your daughter "terrified" of the other parent? Or is your daughter just unhappy with the other parent's style of discipline? Remember at 8 years old your daughter is forming her self image. You are contributing to her emotional development. The only thing you really can do in my opinion is to insure you do the right thing when your daughter is with you. You can't control how the other parent parents your children.

                    You would like the other parent to respond to your parenting style because you feel it is what is best for your daughter but, children are very adaptable. They can deal with two different rule sets between two different homes, different coaches and different teachers. Your daughter may be expressing herself because she just doesn't like the rules at the other parent's house.

                    It is a difficult to reflect on the situation and why your daughter is reacting the way she is to the other parent. But, it is hard to blame the other parent as you are not there to see what is going on. You are only getting an 8 year old child's interpretation of the event.

                    Good Luck!
                    Tayken

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by NBDad View Post
                      If you ex is that batshit crazy, then you can secure more time. True colors will eventually come out, but you have to buck in for the long haul.
                      To further add to NBDad's vivid description...

                      You may have an opportunity to request the assistance of a custody and access evaluator to determine your daughter's best interests. The OCL may be able to assist in the matter. Based on what you have said with regards to the situation it may be the only option you have.

                      Originally posted by formyGirls View Post
                      In another 4 years your daughter will have a voice in her living arrangements. Try and get consent from your ex to get your daughter to the psychologist, even if it means taking the time off work to do so. If your ex refuses, get your lawyer in gear to have a motion heard to force your ex to allow it.
                      Agreed. At 12 the wishes of your daughter will be considered but, more than likely it will require the involvement of a independent non-biased third party like a custody and access evaluator.

                      Good Luck!
                      Tayken

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Tayken,

                        Again, I do appreciate the comments and suggestions. I do disagree with some of your comments, but to be fair, those comments I disagree with are often based on assumptions, some of which you have made because of the limited information I have supplied. Fair enough.

                        To respond to a few of your comments:

                        Don't be accusatory.
                        Excellent advice. In this forum, I, as many others, am not as careful with the language used as I am in court. I am self-rep, and am very aware and careful of what I say. When my case goes to trial, I know that the judge's perception of both of us will be critical. I limit virtually all my communication with my ex to emails, and I have been very neutral and child centered in ALL my communications so far. Despite the urge to rip into my ex at times, I have always been the cooler head, and continue to be so.

                        In regards to proceeding with a motion, I am considering it only after I make a few attempts at convincing them of the necessity of it. And I have made an appointment with our family doctor, in which I will feel her out in regards to her support for getting the counseling. She has already recommended it - I would just like a letter backing that up that I can use to support the motion later if necessary. But you are right, Tayken, it would be best to try to get my ex on board first.

                        At times I feel as if you think I am trying to be the confrontational one in the mix, but I am not. The reasons I did contact CAS before going to my ex on this issue, are primarily focused around trying to do what is best for my daughter. How did I justify this? If I approach my ex directly about this, she would take it out on our daughter. How do I know this for sure? I lived with her for 7 years - I LIVED IT FOR 7 YEARS.... and I regret to this day that I wasn't courageous enough to take the girls out of that environment when I had the chance. She was abusive towards my daughter when I was there, and it is getting worse now.

                        If I suggested the psychologist route to my ex, even without mentioning the abuse, she would have quietly picked the doctor herself, had the interviews done with the psychologist receiving only outside input from her, and the psychologist would very likely not have heard the truth from my daughter (she is very reluctant to share what is happening with anyone). The assessment would have been done, and likely would have not gotten to the issue at heart. How am I so sure? I have watched my ex twist and turn facts with professionals to get whatever results she desires. She is a master manipulator, but unfortunately not a very good liar - it has been easy so far to unravel her stories.

                        My ex is very good at skirting issues and misleading people. All I wanted was for someone professional to get to the truth of what is being done to my daughter, so that she can function properly as an eight year old and not be left with emotional scars that haunt her all her life.

                        The custody arrangement, BTW, is that she has TEMPORARY sole custody, by consent. Upon signing the consent agreement, we were to return to court for a settlement conference two months later. The time period was intended to be short.

                        After that, her lawyer twice cancelled conferences at the last minute, then she switched lawyers a week before the next conference, then she didn't show because she had something more important to do, then her lawyer didn't file some documents and the judge wouldn't hear us... Now 18 months later, she still hadn't been in front of a judge for the settlement conference. Her lawyer again didn't file conference briefs, affidavits, nothing... so I served him with my brief and confirmation notice, forcing them to show up. The judge read my info, and on my request ordered us straight to trial. Tried the OCL already - they refused to be involved. Tried to get order for a custody assessment - but judge refused because neither of us could really afford a proper one anyway.

                        So yeah, she has temporary custody, and a strong de facto, but wrongfully achieved. (Every delay I objected to along the way, some her lawyer even lied and claimed to have contacted me and that I consented). I know- it's an uphill battle, but it's my girls I am fighting for. I have found some case law where the judges have mentioned that temporary is that - it is to be taken without prejudice. And as well, that de facto custody improperly achieved is not treated the same at that which is consented to.

                        Why did I consent to temporary order in first place? Bad advice of duty counsel (which is my fault, because I was too trusting of the quality of their opinions). But I had not seen my kids for 2 months because she went through a spell of arbitrarily withholding access (as turned out to be a pattern over the next year), and at our case conference her lawyer indicated the only way they would consent to restoring access was with sole custody... so we wrote in "temporary, without prejudice". I wish I had stuck up for myself and made her answer to the judge why they were withholding access and stayed with the joint custody. But in the divorce answer and all my other documents, I have always been asking for joint.

                        As far as my daughter talking to her teacher... it is good advice. (My girlfriend is a certified teacher - if it happened in her classroom, she would be obligated to report it as well.) BUT - my ex is sending our daughter to a private religious school against my wishes (huge $), and the teachers there are not all certified, and not necessarily required to report it too. As well - my ex has made a big stink at the school that I am not allowed to pick up my oldest there. There is nothing written anywhere that says I can't - but the people who oversee the after school program have admitted they have been told by my ex that I can't pick up my kids there. So there are great tensions between myself and my daughter's school, and I don't push the issue with them because I am trying to not interfere with my daughter's schooling either. I have brought this issue up with her lawyer, who has never given me good reason other than it is her perogative. I am hoping the judge will look negatively at this behaviour on their part as well.

                        And BTW, I was supposed to have our girls for a week vacation this summer, my ex emailed and asked me if I could make my vacation with them a certain week (which I agreed to)... and upon CAS contacting her, she withdrew my week of vacation just like that. It was hard on my oldest, because she was really aware of it and looking forward to it... so again she suffers. Gotta love adults acting like little kids.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by formyGirls View Post
                          Tayken,

                          Again, I do appreciate the comments and suggestions. I do disagree with some of your comments, but to be fair, those comments I disagree with are often based on assumptions, some of which you have made because of the limited information I have supplied. Fair enough.
                          I have taken the time now to read your past postings to get more familiar with your situation to fill in some of the gaps. At times I tend to take the opposing view in my response to help people see potentially the other party's perspective on things or a service provider's perspective (potentially). I find many people come looking for acceptance and they believe it is only through direct support that they get help. Investigating matters from all angles is important.

                          Originally posted by wretchedotis View Post
                          Excellent advice. In this forum, I, as many others, am not as careful with the language used as I am in court.
                          Many people vent in forums so it is somewhat understandable. But, do be very aware of how you present your argument to the other parent at all times. If you take a more logically driven argument forward at all times then the emotions will not overwhelm the relevant components.

                          Originally posted by wretchedotis View Post
                          I am self-rep, and am very aware and careful of what I say.
                          Well, my recommendation should be that you try to think/act/behave in a manner that doesn't charge your emotions. Message boards are highly emotionally charged environments. So, it may be good practice to act as you would in an affidavit and in court (and in real life) on boards as well. It will only help you rationalize your argument into factual and relevant components that matter to a judge hearing/reading the materials.

                          Originally posted by wretchedotis View Post
                          When my case goes to trial, I know that the judge's perception of both of us will be critical.
                          The judge will be watching you like a hawk. They are trained specifically what to watch for.

                          Originally posted by wretchedotis View Post
                          I limit virtually all my communication with my ex to emails, and I have been very neutral and child centered in ALL my communications so far.
                          Email is a good and bad thing. If you apply some basic rules on responding it can be ok. For one, never respond immediately. If you feel the need to save it to drafts first. Wait a day then read it. Everyone makes mistakes with this. Not saying you do it. Just providing some general guidance.

                          If the other parent is as high-conflict I suggest you invest in a software platform like OurFamilyWizard.com or JointCustody.Com. Propose it to the other parent. It demonstrates you have absolutely no fear in communicating with the other parent. It also eliminates the modification of your emails or injecting fake ones. Email is not secure, safe or guaranteed. Judges are starting to realize this. Judges are starting to order the use of these software platforms in these kinds of high-conflict matters. By recommending it you can only demonstrate you are cooperative and are willing to commit to a third party managed communications system.

                          Originally posted by wretchedotis View Post
                          Despite the urge to rip into my ex at times, I have always been the cooler head, and continue to be so.
                          Might I recommend that you be the "cool head" versus the "cooler head". Difficult to do I understand but, if done consistently it demonstrates your point for you at court.

                          Originally posted by wretchedotis View Post
                          In regards to proceeding with a motion, I am considering it only after I make a few attempts at convincing them of the necessity of it.
                          You just need to state your reason once and only once but, make it clear and relevant to the other parent. A motion may not be necessary if you have a trial approaching in these matters.

                          Originally posted by wretchedotis View Post
                          And I have made an appointment with our family doctor, in which I will feel her out in regards to her support for getting the counseling.
                          Don't "feel her out". Be honest, open and be subjective and objective with your observation's of your daughters mental health. You should trust your daughter's doctor. If you don't then it may be time to recommend a new one be selected. Don't attempt to use a service provider as a pawn in your matrimonial dispute. It may end up backfiring on you.

                          Originally posted by wretchedotis View Post
                          She has already recommended it - I would just like a letter backing that up that I can use to support the motion later if necessary. But you are right, Tayken, it would be best to try to get my ex on board first.
                          Furthermore it demonstrates you can work with the other parent in these matters.

                          Originally posted by wretchedotis View Post
                          At times I feel as if you think I am trying to be the confrontational one in the mix, but I am not.
                          Conflict takes two active parties to create the conflict. I am not accusing you. I just try to present observations where there may be perceived conflict by the other parent or other service providers (CAS, etc.).

                          Originally posted by wretchedotis View Post
                          The reasons I did contact CAS before going to my ex on this issue, are primarily focused around trying to do what is best for my daughter.
                          But did the outcome of your doing so improve your daughter's situation? Or did it get a nasty letter from the other parent's solicitor in response? Hard to consider in the heat of the moment and when calling CAS I do understand. But, the outcome you were unhappy with. I hope you were unhappy because it didn't improve your daughter's situation and not because the other parent was not punished.

                          Originally posted by wretchedotis View Post
                          How did I justify this? If I approach my ex directly about this, she would take it out on our daughter.
                          Might I suggest this may be a worry (anxiety) you have that may not be true. In a past thread you said some rather nice things about the other parent and her care of your children. Why the change of heart now and in this matter?

                          Originally posted by wretchedotis View Post
                          How do I know this for sure? I lived with her for 7 years - I LIVED IT FOR 7 YEARS.... and I regret to this day that I wasn't courageous enough to take the girls out of that environment when I had the chance.
                          Yet, it appears that you only have EoW access. Not to be conflictual but, just providing an observation. If your daughter was in danger why did you allow for it to happen? How did it happen? Reflection is a tough thing to do with honesty to yourself in these matters at times.

                          Originally posted by wretchedotis View Post
                          She was abusive towards my daughter when I was there, and it is getting worse now.
                          See above point. Again, not judging just observing and providing my observations based on the materials on the message board.

                          Originally posted by wretchedotis View Post
                          The assessment would have been done, and likely would have not gotten to the issue at heart. How am I so sure? I have watched my ex twist and turn facts with professionals to get whatever results she desires. She is a master manipulator, but unfortunately not a very good liar - it has been easy so far to unravel her stories.
                          Lies have short legs in these matters. Simply point out that you are concerned with the fact that the other parent is not involving you in critical decisions about your daughter and would like to be.

                          Originally posted by wretchedotis View Post
                          My ex is very good at skirting issues and misleading people. All I wanted was for someone professional to get to the truth of what is being done to my daughter, so that she can function properly as an eight year old and not be left with emotional scars that haunt her all her life.
                          There are always multiple versions of the truth unfortunately. What makes your version the absolute truth? There are two sides to every story. How you present the story is the key. How you articulate and identify the relevant issues is key. Your style of communications as well.

                          Originally posted by wretchedotis View Post
                          Now 18 months later, she still hadn't been in front of a judge for the settlement conference. Her lawyer again didn't file conference briefs, affidavits, nothing... so I served him with my brief and confirmation notice, forcing them to show up. The judge read my info, and on my request ordered us straight to trial.
                          If the other party is non responsive and doesn't file paperwork this is what happens. It is unfortunate.

                          Originally posted by wretchedotis View Post
                          I know- it's an uphill battle, but it's my girls I am fighting for.
                          Don't fight. This is about resolving the problems for your children. Often times it feels like a battle but, don't treat it that way. Stay focused on your children's needs and their best interests.

                          Originally posted by wretchedotis View Post
                          But in the divorce answer and all my other documents, I have always been asking for joint.
                          Joint custody but, what access schedule are you requesting? Do you really feel this is a situation that warrants joint custody? From your description a parallel parenting arrangement would be a better request.

                          Good Luck!
                          Tayken

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                          • #14
                            Tayken,

                            I appreciate the considerable time you have taken responding to me. Your opinions and questioning have been helpful in keeping me on track.

                            A few months ago I put through a settlement offer to my ex via her lawyer, proposing a parallel parenting model. I have been reading up on these for some time, and have found a couple cases in which it has been used for "high conflict" cases like this.

                            I am pushing for 50/50 access, with exchanges done at school on Monday mornings (eliminates face to face contact, and kids don't have the direct transition between parents). The only responses from her lawyer have been that she gets sole custody and I get access "as the mother sees fit".

                            Any thoughts specific clauses to put into separation agreements with a high conflict case?

                            Thanks again,

                            formyGirls

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by formyGirls View Post
                              ... The only responses from her lawyer have been that she gets sole custody and I get access "as the mother sees fit".
                              This IS what is wrong with the system - weak minded, self centered clients, and lawyers who want the best agreement for the client, not for the kids, not for the other parent, not what is fair - and also want a fight to make $$$

                              EVERYONE knows (especially in conflicted parenting), that the phrase 'as the mother sees fit' means ALIENATION and CONTROL by the mother and grief for the dad and the kids.

                              We are hopeless as a society when this type of BS is 'the system'

                              Comment

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