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  • Accused of parental alienation

    I feel like a rat stuck in a trap. Long documented history of abuse yet I always forgave and wished for better. Still wish the best for my ex to lead a peaceful life. Many issues here including non disclosure despite being court ordered. Discovering a double life and secret children. Hidden assets. The best one is the parental alienation allegation. Currently have a peace bond and exchanging kids through a supervised access centre. He files a motion for increased access accusing me of holding kids back a day after I offer joint custody based on the current access regime. wt*??? Now he's after sole custody. Some history here ....he abandoned us the day of the birth of our second child. Returns a few months later to reconcile. Then he gets arrested and precludes himself from his children's lives for months on his own accord. Tells the courts that I was keeping kids away. The truth is I was negotiating access arrangements through my lawyer. We finally reached an agreement 10 months later for weekend visitation. I'm scared of his lies and legal bullying. Any suggestions?

  • #2
    If you were negotiating access through a lawyer, you should have a paper trail. To prove his case he will have to prove you were withholding access and/or poisoning the kids against their father. The former should be fairly easy to disprove with your paper trail. Your offer of joint is also valuable.

    How did you respond to his request for increased access?

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by drainedbysystem View Post
      ... (insert complaints as common as teeth here) ... The best one is the parental alienation allegation.
      Remember anyone can alledge what they want in an affidavit. The other party in the matter could aledge that you are a raving Satanist without any evidence other than their own personal opinion.

      Just like I have not accepted your opinioned evidence on "abuse", which is a statement as common as teeth made on this forum, so too can the other parent claim nonsense.

      So, I wouldn't fret about what anyone puts in an affidavit. Just because you put a paragraph into an affidavit and "swear" it is "the truth" it doesn't mean it is "the truth".

      [23] I do not intend to summarize all of the evidence I heard and read at this trial in search for the elusive “truth” of this family’s history. I have indeed considered all of the evidence which the parties ably marshalled at the trial, in arriving at this decision.

      [24] This decision will not vindicate one parent and disparage the other. This family did not get to where they are by the simplistic analysis presented by the father, which is, but for the mother’s bad behaviour the father would have a perfectly wonderful relationship with his three children. No, the issues in this family are far more complex and subtle than that. The “truth” will not set this family free, because there is no one single truth. Only the parties, working together in a therapeutic setting, can set this family free.
      Originally posted by drainedbysystem View Post
      He files a motion for increased access accusing me of holding kids back a day after I offer joint custody based on the current access regime. wt*???
      By your account he is a criminal and apparently "abusive".

      Originally posted by drainedbysystem View Post
      Now he's after sole custody.
      He can be after your multi-trillion dollar family estate with your parents to. Just because someone files a motion doesn't mean a judge will take it seriously or give it the time of day.

      Originally posted by drainedbysystem View Post
      I'm scared of his lies and legal bullying. Any suggestions?
      I caution you on how you use the term "abuse" and advise you to read:

      http://www.ottawadivorce.com/forum/f...ase-law-16809/

      [12] The difficulty with the term “abuse”, as it is used in affidavits filed in family law cases, is that it is used subjectively. It is an emotionally coloured term. It is not limited to describing physical violence but may be also be used to describe a range of conflicts including arguments, differences of opinion or values, or hurt feelings. For example, one partner may consider himself or herself as a good money manager while the other partner may perceive close budgeting as coercive control. One partner may consider an end-of-day inquiry about how the other spouse’s day went as an indication of love or interest while a disaffected spouse may deem the inquiry intrusive and controlling.

      [13] Allegations of abuse may be a symptom of the failure of a relationship. Blame is an inherent part of the allegation. Sometimes it is wholly warranted; other times it is not. When parties are not communicating, any slight or criticism is magnified. There is a tendency to minimize the other spouse’s good qualities and maximize the bad. Warring spouses are rarely in a position to step back and evaluate the other’s behaviour with objective eyes. Nor are they able to critically assess their own behaviour...
      To further on the point (#12 and #13) from case law is that the same can be said about the term "abuse" can be said about "parental alienation".

      Good Luck!
      Tayken

      Comment


      • #4
        I enjoyed reading Tayken's post above. Food for thought. I also think it is interesting that many individual's paint the ex as an abuser, incompetent, deceitful, etc and then in same breath justify their own position and actions by providing they offered ample access or joint custody. Lots of sucking and blowing going on there....

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by Serene View Post
          I enjoyed reading Tayken's post above. Food for thought. I also think it is interesting that many individual's paint the ex as an abuser, incompetent, deceitful, etc and then in same breath justify their own position and actions by providing they offered ample access or joint custody. Lots of sucking and blowing going on there....

          LOL, You are very correct with that statement. Nothing but contradictions over and over again. Although it is very hard to not want to retaliate with evidence to prove anything otherwise it becomes redundant and not with the headache in the end. Let the Ex dig their own hole.

          Comment


          • #6
            Thank you all for your replies. Sometimes a fresh set of eyes or opinion is greatly valued. In terms of the abuse it goes way back. First time i reported it to the police was 20 years ago. Attached that police report to my pleadings. In it the officer states that I declined to make a statement against my former spouse and declined photographing my injuries. I didn't co operate with the police back then. I was young, terrified, and in shock. The next police report is when he breached his bail conditions and started stalking me. Police then arrested him again outside my front door. Next police report was in 2005 and he fled the scene when the police arrived. I was preassured by my family not to have him charged and did not make a statement. The police had me sign the report anyway based on what they saw at the scene. Broken household items etc. He also admits to taking my vehicle following that arguement and feels justified in his actions. He walked out on us and I was forced to apply for social assistance for a few months. I attached a letter from social services to my pleadings as well. I used to have a fantastic career in investment banking prior to having children. That was the most embarassing moment in my life. So needless to say there's alot of documentation to show that he was physically violent, financially abusive, and above everything else an irresponsible dad. Thats the past. I have currently enrolled into a college program to upgrade my skills for re entry into the work force. I want him to have a relationship with his kids and truly try to accomodate him. We missed a couple of weekends with the access centre (sick kiddos) and I have always made those visits up by offering "my weekends". I'm a reasonable individual.
            My past relationship with him has nothing to do with our kids. Our kids need him as much as they need their mom. I'm not sure this joint custody thing is going to work with all the anger on his part. I am flexible with access and he can have as much time as he wants. Not confident with his current behaviour to make decisions for the children.

            Comment


            • #7
              I offered ample access and joint custody in the hopes of working together despite our differences so our kids can thrive.

              Despite him being an abusive husband he has the potential to be a wonderful dad. He just wont let go of the past.

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by DowntroddenDad View Post
                If you were negotiating access through a lawyer, you should have a paper trail. To prove his case he will have to prove you were withholding access and/or poisoning the kids against their father. The former should be fairly easy to disprove with your paper trail. Your offer of joint is also valuable.

                How did you respond to his request for increased access?

                Yes indeed I have that paper trail. I consented to the increased access by way of offer to settle. Why engage in a war. Taking the higher road always pays off....

                Comment


                • #9
                  There is a lot of irrelevant info in your posts:

                  Kids missed access because they were sick? Did they have meningitis? A sick kid can continue for access... and BOTH kids were sick at same time? So sick they couldn't see their dad on SEVERAL occasions? This sounds suspect.

                  The abuse you say you didn't pursue - if police thought he was abusive THEY MUST pursue charges. It isn't your choice to pursue or not... again your statements are suspect.

                  He won't let go of the past? Sweetheart - that is ALL you have been talking about!

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Serene View Post
                    The abuse you say you didn't pursue - if police thought he was abusive THEY MUST pursue charges. It isn't your choice to pursue or not... again your statements are suspect.
                    Back in the day, this wasn't the case......

                    But what happened a long time ago doesn't have much relevance anymore. People can change.

                    I agree about the sick kids part. OP, unless the child so sick that the doctor recommends that the kid not go and signs a note stating as much, the child is supposed to go. Part of being a parent is caring for a child when they are sick as well as healthy. Being simply being sick is not a legitimate reason to deny access.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Serene View Post
                      There is a lot of irrelevant info in your posts:

                      Kids missed access because they were sick? Did they have meningitis? A sick kid can continue for access... and BOTH kids were sick at same time? So sick they couldn't see their dad on SEVERAL occasions? This sounds suspect.

                      The abuse you say you didn't pursue - if police thought he was abusive THEY MUST pursue charges. It isn't your choice to pursue or not... again your statements are suspect.

                      He won't let go of the past? Sweetheart - that is ALL you have been talking about!
                      First off I see this website as an avenue to vent and seek perspective within the scope of a divorce. I do not see this website as an avenue to attack people and question them as to the validity of their cases. Pls back off because I dont have anything to prove to you. Maybe venting abt my past is therapeutic for me sweetheart!

                      Kids missed one visit because both were vomiting. Visit made up. Second visit due to centre stat holiday closure. That visit was made up as well because I believe in fairness.

                      Police did pursue and laid charges every time. I didn't co operate in the trial process out of fear. Last time though I did get a peace bond.

                      My posts are and will never be irrellevant. It is the nightmare I am living within the court system. If they are irrellevant to you... then stop reading and above all, stop responding. Your negative energy has no place here in this thread.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by drainedbysystem View Post
                        First off I see this website as an avenue to vent and seek perspective within the scope of a divorce. I do not see this website as an avenue to attack people and question them as to the validity of their cases. Pls back off because I dont have anything to prove to you. Maybe venting abt my past is therapeutic for me sweetheart!

                        Kids missed one visit because both were vomiting. Visit made up. Second visit due to centre stat holiday closure. That visit was made up as well because I believe in fairness.

                        Police did pursue and laid charges every time. I didn't co operate in the trial process out of fear. Last time though I did get a peace bond.

                        My posts are and will never be irrellevant. It is the nightmare I am living within the court system. If they are irrellevant to you... then stop reading and above all, stop responding. Your negative energy has no place here in this thread.
                        I think you are looking at this the wrong way.

                        These are things your ex will probably claim as well and should. Advice on here is not always what people want to hear. However all view points are valid and you need to take it as constructive criticism and not an "Attack" on you personally.

                        People on here have been through what you are going through and can post anything they want to any thread they want as this is a public forum.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by drainedbysystem View Post
                          First off I see this website as an avenue to vent and seek perspective within the scope of a divorce.
                          I kindly remind you that there are more people participating in this conversation thread then just you. These people will express their own opinions and some of them may be counter to your own. Generally, I find the users who make this kind of statement (and the ones below) to be the most controlling type of people. They come seeking advice but, only if it suits their emotional needs (emotional reasoning).

                          Controlling people are not "objective thinkers" and do not take feedback well. They often make nonsense complaints about what they expect from members of an anonymous message forum on the internet like these.

                          Originally posted by drainedbysystem View Post
                          I do not see this website as an avenue to attack people and question them as to the validity of their cases.
                          You can "see" / believe whatever you want about this forum. It is a public message forum that is governed by a few rules but, those rules do not govern if posters will agree or disagree with your position. Furthermore, this forum is not an "emotional support" forum generally. The major contributors provide information on how not to screw up a family law matter.

                          Originally posted by drainedbysystem View Post
                          Pls back off because I dont have anything to prove to you.
                          Nor do we have anything to prove to you. You can take the advice of senior contributors or you can disregard it and project blame that it is "bad advice" and "abusive" to disagree with you. I point you back at the wise words of the justice who identifies the major challenges with the term "abuse".

                          Originally posted by drainedbysystem View Post
                          Maybe venting abt my past is therapeutic for me sweetheart!
                          I note the rude agression in your response. This is very a very common pattern of behaviour of a controlling person. When they are not winning favour the subject others to rude and condesending remarks.

                          If you require therapy I recommend you leverage the resources offered by your family practitioner of medicine. Most have a social worker on staff or can refer you to a properly trained resource. If you are seeking therapeutic support on an anonymous internet forum where people discuss "divorce" you are going to be very disappointed with the responses you get here.

                          Originally posted by drainedbysystem View Post
                          Kids missed one visit because both were vomiting. Visit made up. Second visit due to centre stat holiday closure. That visit was made up as well because I believe in fairness.
                          Yet, you think it is fair to come and lament about the other parent on a public internet forum where they can't respond to your hearsay about them? Odd.

                          Originally posted by drainedbysystem View Post
                          Police did pursue and laid charges every time. I didn't co operate in the trial process out of fear. Last time though I did get a peace bond.
                          1. People who have faced intimate partner abuse generally do not post on public message forums providing detailed particulars of what happened in their past;

                          2. They also do not act rude and condescending ("sweatheart");

                          3. They generally do not engage in conflict and try to convince poeople of their story;

                          4. They generally are working with victim services and are (or have) engaged in therapy; and

                          5. They would be more cautions of being "found" than you as this is the most popular forum for divorce in Canada. (they simply wouldn't disclose dates (even years!) as you have done.

                          Originally posted by drainedbysystem View Post
                          My posts are and will never be irrellevant.
                          The content in most of them is irrelevant. Just as most of the respondents here have disregarded your irrelevant "evidence" so too, in my opinion, will a justice hearing your matter.

                          http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Relevance_(law)

                          Most lawyers struggle with the complex concept of "relevancy" so unrepresented litigants such as yourself generally have little to no concept of what relevancy in law means.

                          You are talking about "emotional relevance" to you as a person and in support of how you are "feeling". What others are telling you is "irrelevant" is not your feelings but the information in relation to "legal relevance".

                          It would be more accurate to tell you that the evidence that you are presenting in support of your allegations of "abuse" are not probative and probably won't be considered by a justice even when weighed on the balance of probabilities in accordance with Rule 24(4) of the Children's Law Reform Act of Ontario "Violence and Abuse".

                          Originally posted by drainedbysystem View Post
                          It is the nightmare I am living within the court system. If they are irrellevant to you... then stop reading and above all, stop responding. Your negative energy has no place here in this thread.
                          I also find when people blame others such as this with having "negative energy" they are highly controlling. I suspect this is formed from a common underlying "belief" that they can control others and the "energies" around them and that the energies of others can control them. This is a form of "magical thinking".

                          These people tend to not see the "negative energy" that envelopes them that is commonly anger/spite/hatred often pointed at a system" or the other party in the matter. They often envision themselves living in a "nightmare" and therefor create this nightmare through their own fears and/or anxieties and/or worries.

                          The next thing that I predict on this thread that will happen will be this OP will ragequit the forum like so many others when people will not validate their "feeliings" and won't "believe" their story at face value.

                          Good Luck!
                          Tayken
                          Last edited by Tayken; 03-21-2014, 10:39 AM.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            You have stated that you are "afraid of his lies and legal bullying." You also indicate that there is a peace bond which dictates you have to use a neutral drop-off location. This would indicate to me that you have taken steps to ensure that you do not have to have direct contact with your ex.

                            Why, and what, are you afraid of in the court process? Do you have legal representation? Sounds like you are afraid of many things.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              People who are afraid of being "found" have something to hide. I come to this forum with the truth.

                              I am represented by a fantastic lawyer who has presented my evidence to the courts very elequently. My lawyer is efficient and is highly ethical. Not only has she truly understood my case but really does work hard. The fear factor comes from years of being controlled by fear. My therapist is helping me with that.

                              In terms of the "controlling" factor. You have the right to your opinion. People that actually know me would disagree with you. As a side note sometimes we as people come accross the wrong way through messaging. Its impossible to see the context of our vocabulary.

                              You are absolutely right about the emotional attachment to this thread. I guess the word "suspect" set me off. I'm not here to fight anyone. I'm here for some objectivity.

                              I hear you about my evidence being acknowledged. How do you prove to the court your're divorcing an abuser. in my case its easy because my ex has used so much imflammatory language in his pleadings to degrade me as a human being. He has also made many admissions supporting the facts in my police reports. He's his own worst enemy.

                              Thank you for your feedback. Sorry if I offended anyone as it was not my intention.

                              Comment

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