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  • #76
    Originally posted by Tayken View Post
    Good jorb Blink!



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    • #77
      You have an amazing talent for taking things out of context and putting words into people's mouths (or posts, as the case may be.) Once again, nobody said moms were better parents for any reason, or many of the other statements you continue to make.

      I have absolutely no doubt you will continue, as is the way of those who are on a mission to 'prove' a statement false that was never made to begin with.

      Have at it

      Comment


      • #78
        Have at it
        Challenge accepted

        Originally posted by blinkandimgone View Post
        moms... better parents
        Sexist pig

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        • #79
          Lol, thanks J-anus. 😛

          Comment


          • #80
            Originally posted by blinkandimgone View Post
            You have an amazing talent for taking things out of context and putting words into people's mouths
            Not really. I do think that is what you tried to do however in your essay earlier.

            Anyway, You have completely forgotten the background context. The original statement made by Rioe was:

            Iit's going to take teaching boys parenting skills from childhood and encouraging them to have deep friendships beyond their family so they have a support network in adulthood.
            My question was, and why is that something we only need to teach boys and not girls and whether it was a skewed mindset we (or rather some people) have of men as a society .

            You have made it clear, that it is a skewed mindset that we have of men as society.

            How can you say you were not trying to say mom’s are better parents when you have very clearly stated that diapering,m bottle feeding, bathing, sleeping, skills learned from playing by dolls are skills gained for meeting the basic needs of a ababy/child – and important given that they recognize that these are requirements ? Which obviously boys do not learn as a child (According to you) as they did not play with dolls ? You did say these toys only come in pink and purple and not in boy colors – did you not ? Have a look below:

            Originally posted by blinkandimgone View Post
            Mothers are (traditionally) TAUGHT to be more nurturing than fathers. Which is the point Rioe was making. These skills are more often encouraged in girls from a young age rather than in boys. Society still markets dolls, play kitchens, play houses, laundry, baby beds, dollhouses etc to girls - they come in pinks and purples, not traditionally "boy colours" for a reason.
            You have further stated that (and reinforced your point) by stating:

            Originally posted by blinkandimgone View Post
            There are many, many studies that show children early deprivation of nurturing relationships can severely damage or limit a child's development of empathy, social skills, nurturing and a wide range of areas linked to a child's successful development. For example: Why some people lack empathy

            The capacity for empathy and nurturing is there, however without it being fostered it can be limited in development.
            And even further by going as far as stating:

            Originally posted by blinkandimgone View Post
            Society, as a whole, has not encouraged the same emotional development and sharing in boys and men as they have with women.
            You have essentially stated that men do not have these skills to be capable parents, because of your reasons above

            Originally posted by blinkandimgone View Post
            Which would start at an early age with: “ providing boys with the skills to be capable parents and expecting it from them when they are men.”
            Hastala Vista, baby.

            Comment


            • #81
              Originally posted by Janus View Post
              Challenge accepted



              Sexist pig

              Lmao. No need to chop up her sentences to prove she is a sexist pig. You can take her entire sentences and just point to her very well thought out wording to point out her thought process and state of mind.

              The fact that she get's defensive doesn't convince me in any other ways either.

              Comment


              • #82
                Originally posted by tunnelight View Post
                Anyway, You have completely forgotten the background context. The original statement made by Rioe was:
                Iit's going to take teaching boys parenting skills from childhood and encouraging them to have deep friendships beyond their family so they have a support network in adulthood.
                My question was, and why is that something we only need to teach boys and not girls and whether it was a skewed mindset we (or rather some people) have of men as a society .
                Of course all children should be taught these things. Right now though, it's something most girls are already taught from an early age, with the aforementioned dolls and babysitting and deep supportive friendships, while most boys aren't.

                We do a pretty good job now of encouraging girls into STEM, but there is still not an equivalent system that encourages boys into nurturing. In fact, when we try, people complain that feminism is turning men into betas, etc. Society is far from finished making things equal for everybody, and men suffer for it in family law.

                I feel like I've taken the original thread way off track, by speculating that it was this lack of teaching that was part of the background of this man's terrible actions. Maybe mods could branch it off into another thread.

                Comment


                • #83
                  Originally posted by tunnelight View Post
                  Lmao. No need to chop up her sentences to prove she is a sexist pig. You can take her entire sentences and just point to her very well thought out wording to point out her thought process and state of mind.

                  The fact that she get's defensive doesn't convince me in any other ways either.
                  I am a sexist pig? As one of the biggest defenders and supporters of equal parenting for men, you have clearly never read any of my posts and have no idea who i am. Twisting what someone says and means to suit your agenda does not make them into what you are attempting to portray.
                  It simply means you only read what you ate looking for and skip the actual point.

                  When you run out of reasonable thought to debate and need to resort to spin, name calling and defamation of character, you can consider your argument a complete loss.

                  Comment


                  • #84
                    Originally posted by Rioe View Post
                    Of course all children should be taught these things. Right now though, it's something most girls are already taught from an early age, with the aforementioned dolls and babysitting and deep supportive friendships, while most boys aren't.

                    We do a pretty good job now of encouraging girls into STEM, but there is still not an equivalent system that encourages boys into nurturing.
                    But then again, how are we not teaching these things to boys when they have pets that they look after and nurture ? Or younger brothers and sisters (siblings) or even step brothers and step sisters ? Little action figures and teddy bears ?

                    Doesn't matter - you've made your opinion very bold and clear. Women and mom's are more nurturing then are farthers and men.

                    Comment


                    • #85
                      Originally posted by blinkandimgone View Post
                      I am a sexist pig? As one of the biggest defenders and supporters of equal parenting for men, you have clearly never read any of my posts and have no idea who i am. Twisting what someone says and means to suit your agenda does not make them into what you are attempting to portray.
                      It simply means you only read what you ate looking for and skip the actual point.

                      When you run out of reasonable thought to debate and need to resort to spin, name calling and defamation of character, you can consider your argument a complete loss.
                      Ah.... Getting defensive again I see...

                      I did not call you a sexist pig -- Janus did. And I just said he wouldn't have to do that to prove his point. There are other ways in which he could do it.

                      It wasn't you who said something about taking things out of context and putting words in people's mouth a little earlier on now was it ?

                      Comment


                      • #86
                        Originally posted by Rioe View Post
                        by speculating that it was this lack of teaching that was part of the background of this man's terrible actions. Maybe mods could branch it off into another thread.
                        Speculating is the right word. There is no evidence that there was suck lack of teaching, or that playing with dolls as a child makes you a better parent. I am sure the women who killed their kids played with dolls as kids too. May have even poked needles in their dolls.

                        Comment


                        • #87
                          Originally posted by tunnelight View Post
                          But then again, how are we not teaching these things to boys when they have pets that they look after and nurture ? Or younger brothers and sisters (siblings) or even step brothers and step sisters ? Little action figures and teddy bears ?

                          Doesn't matter - you've made your opinion very bold and clear. Women and mom's are more nurturing then are farthers and men.
                          I'm getting the impression you are deliberately not seeing my point. All I've ever said is that women are presently given a big head start on learning nurturing skills as girls, while men are held back as boys. This results in women, on average, being more nurturing than men. I have never said that this is right, or set in stone, and I'm actually a big fan of changing it.

                          Men can be wonderful nurturers (just as some women are crap at it!) but society has to not only teach them the skills, we also have to teach them to value learning them.

                          I'm glad you're so adamant though, and that you don't see some of what I've seen. It means you're on the forefront of the revolution.

                          Honestly, I've always thought there should be a training and licensing program of some sort before people should be allowed to be parents. It takes years of lessons and practice and big tests before we let people drive cars, and yet when they have a baby, we just congratulate them and wish them luck.

                          Comment


                          • #88
                            Yes, my very early on point that he is purposely missing the point in order to twist what is actually said. But that's his MO.

                            Comment


                            • #89
                              Originally posted by Rioe View Post
                              I'm getting the impression you are deliberately not seeing my point. All I've ever said is that women are presently given a big head start on learning nurturing skills as girls, while men are held back as boys. This results in women, on average, being more nurturing than men. I have never said that this is right, or set in stone, and I'm actually a big fan of changing it.
                              How exactly are women given a heard start on learning nurturing skills as girls ? I know you have stated that your theory isn't actually right or set in stone - and that you want to change it - but your quote below contradicts your statement.


                              Originally posted by Rioe View Post
                              Men can be wonderful nurturers (just as some women are crap at it!) but society has to not only teach them the skills, we also have to teach them to value learning them.
                              What draws you to the conclusion that society only teaches women nurturing skills and not men. And further, what draws you to the conclusion that we have to teach men to value learning nurturing skills ? What draws you to the conclusion that man don't value learning nurturing skills ?

                              Originally posted by Rioe View Post
                              Honestly, I've always thought there should be a training and licensing program of some sort before people should be allowed to be parents. It takes years of lessons and practice and big tests before we let people drive cars, and yet when they have a baby, we just congratulate them and wish them luck.
                              yes - because playing with dolls doesn't teach those skills. Glad you are able to finally agree with me on that point.


                              I think feminist theory could do much toward exploding the myth that parenting is a sex-linked trait

                              Comment


                              • #90
                                Originally posted by blinkandimgone View Post
                                Yes, my very early on point that he is purposely missing the point in order to twist what is actually said. But that's his MO.
                                I agree with you and Rioe to an extend. I precisely disagree that we need to teach men as boys nurturing skills so that we can be as competent parents as women.

                                Here is some good reading for you two.

                                A French study published earlier this year found that fathers are able to recognize whether a crying baby is their child as reliably as mothers can. A recent study out of Israel found that men’s brains rewire for parenting just as much as women’s do when a new baby is born — a finding that challenges the long-held, cross-cultural assumption that women are biologically primed to be better parents. “Maternal instinct,” researchers say, is not innate, but socially constructed, an idea built around the post-Industrial age expectation that women should stay home with the children and keep house.

                                In fact, there is growing consensus among scientists and academics alike that affirms, yes, fathers do make good mothers. But in a society still defined by gender, do dads — and even moms — believe they’re just as suited to the task?

                                “Men definitely have this human capacity to connect with, respond to, and deeply nurture children of all ages,” said Andrea Doucet, the Canada Research Chair in Gender, Work and Care at Brock University, who has studied stay-at-home fathers for 20 years.

                                “What has been slower [are] the social judgements that men can in fact do this, especially with infants.”

                                Comment

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