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  • revising child support help!


    Ok I am not sure if this thread has already been started but new to the site and cant seem to find my way...?
    Try to give readers digest version.
    Just divorced after three years of fighting!
    I have full custody of our two children
    Ex was paying child support
    Ex just got fired from a job he had for almost 8.5 years
    Ex got a huge severance and 8 weeks paid in lieu of notice
    ROE says code M which is dismissed but notes in big letters no misconduct
    Severance has been paid out to ex bi-weekly and FRO is garnishing as before. While ex off work he has decided to study to be a real estate agent. He will collect EI beginning in Feb and is using that to calculate his new level of support he is offering to pay in child support. He says he will be finished phase 111 of the licensing to be an agent in Ontario but can work and has two years to article to be a fully licensed agent. So as I see it he will be collecting unemployment while building a client base and will be paid commission once he sells a house. He has told me that I either accept the 350/month for the two kids for the first three months then 700 per month after that. In 2009 he will revaluate and it would be up to me to apply for a variane! Once he is off the severance as well his old employer will give him his vested pension. He has two children under 2 with his new spouse and she has a 6 year old from a previous marriage. She is a business owner and a successful one.

    Now that you have the background I need some help! If he does file a motion what would be the likely outcome as far as reducing the child support? Thanks for anyone’s help as lawyers have cost me allot and not seeming to get any real concrete answers no one is willing to tell it like it is. I have been tempted to call up and pretend to be in his situation to see what advice he might be getting.

  • #2
    Sounds like a material change in circumstance where he will be able to ask for a variation in support by motion, absent your agreement to vary the order.

    If his income is down, shouldn't he pay less?

    ...After re-reading my response the obvious answer is yes. The payments will increase later when he generates commissions from his work.

    The potential for income doesn't matter, otherwise a lot of deadbeat custodial parents would have to get off their a**.
    Last edited by dadtotheend; 11-06-2008, 07:44 PM.

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    • #3
      I would have to agree, if he's making less, he should pay according to his income. It doesn't sound right to me that a NCP should be paying based on an income they are not even making. Life changes, and unfortunately so does the amount of support you should be receiving during those times that he's not making what he made previously. The only advice I can offer you is to try & sit down & budget for what's expected. The point is that you CAN budget for it, because he is paying to begin with. There are a lot of CP such as myself on this site that would give a body part to be able to look towards a payment and plan a budget with that in mind instead of not knowing when or if anything will arrive & how to pay for those boots the kids need for winter, or the fee for a school sport that your child wants to participate in, but you have to scrape together every bit of change you have left to try & allow your child to even be a child. While I understand your side of it, I understand his too. He's right, the onus is on him to apply for the reduction, and you for the increase. No-one said you have to use a lawyer to do it. The forms are freely available online and it takes mere minutes to file them with the court; and whatever time to serve him or his lawyer etc. Incomplete posted thoughts here, but I think you get the idea. Best of luck to you.

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      • #4
        Originally posted by AndrewsKim View Post
        ...the onus is on him to apply for the reduction, and you for the increase. No-one said you have to use a lawyer to do it...
        Or the both of you could file it together.

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        • #5
          the cs he is paying this year is based on the income tax return for 2007.....cs for next year is based ont his years tax return to be completed in March......it is not based on he said she said it is federal guideline and you do not have the option of making it less unless you have a variance and proving such a thing is almost impossible......I have been in situation and the ex tried it and judge said unless you live at shelter do not even entertain idea of paying less than table amount. If you receive assessment next year and there is reduction in income then it is up to you & the ex to be adult about it and come to agreement (written or verbal) that the new table amount is X$.......dont do it on he said he was making X$......keep it legal and write it down adn the date you commence such thing........btw with him taking real estate course you know that may mess up your cs anyways......they have unpredictable pay cheques.......one month they may make 20K then nothing for the next 6 months.......food for thought.......you cant enforce order when there is no income

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          • #6
            He wont agree on an amount thats resonable so I guess off we go!

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            • #7
              You are so right. He is basing it on what he is going to make not what he made in 2008! He made a whole piel of money! He got is regular pay plus severance of almost 12,000! But he wont see it that way he is very unreasonable in the mean time he is enjoying a very nice life!

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              • #8
                Just a little confused. You said he just lost his job and his severance is paid bi-weekly. So his income hasn't changed, and as you said his CS is deducted as usual. He can't collect EI until his severance runs out, and he can't apply to change his CS until he collects EI.

                You mentioned his vested pension as well. Ideally, he would re-invest that pension. He doesn't have to... he can do what he wants with it. Then it would show as income - for next year, after his severance runs out. If he re-invests it, then it offsets itself and it is not income.

                Regardless, he's expected to pay the same amount unless he goes to court to apply for a variance. It's not likely to be allowed though unless he shows a big material change.

                I'm curious how you know what code was on his ROE papers, and how much his severance was. There's usually an agreement to not discuss those figures.
                .

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by paris View Post
                  Just a little confused. You said he just lost his job and his severance is paid bi-weekly. So his income hasn't changed, and as you said his CS is deducted as usual. He can't collect EI until his severance runs out, and he can't apply to change his CS until he collects EI.

                  You mentioned his vested pension as well. Ideally, he would re-invest that pension. He doesn't have to... he can do what he wants with it. Then it would show as income - for next year, after his severance runs out. If he re-invests it, then it offsets itself and it is not income.

                  Regardless, he's expected to pay the same amount unless he goes to court to apply for a variance. It's not likely to be allowed though unless he shows a big material change.

                  I'm curious how you know what code was on his ROE papers, and how much his severance was. There's usually an agreement to not discuss those figures.
                  .
                  HI

                  He faxed me a copy of his ROE! He lost his job over 6 months ago. Called to tell me and have not heard from him since. Then calls to tell me I have to accept 350 per week starting in Feb when his severance runs out then he will pay me 700 a month after the first three months. He will be collecting EI while he finnishes studying to me an agent. Then he expects to be making around 40-60 selling! So his number of 350 is based on the table amount for someone collecting EI at the max. The 700 is for someone making 60,000 for two kids. But he also now has no dental plan and the kids are both in the middle of ortho so guess who has to pay the monthly installments. SO we have gone from 1300 to 350 to 700! I can manage on 800 since one of our children is still in after school care there are extra expenses. He as well was to take the kids for a month this summer and did not so guess who had to fork out for summer camp! Yours truly! And he has not seen the kids in a year! Last time was he was here to go to court! He has two kids with his new partner( we have been appart for three year!) and she has one from a previous marriage! Non of this matters even if she is a sussecful buisiness owner. The courts cant make him be a father and seems he can get himself fired, they tamper with his ROE and I cant get any proof and he gets to walk away! Sorry I do go on!

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                  • #10
                    He still can't change the support amount on his own. He has to apply for a variance. Deductions are still coming off his severance, and will be deducted from his EI.

                    Was the insurance portion for ortho not paid out in full at the beginning of treatment? Did you have a clause for medical coverage for your children in your agreement? If so, he'll have to purchase insurance, or she can cover your children on her health plan.

                    I don't know why you think his ROE was tampered with, or why it matters.

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                    • #11
                      I think he/they wrote 'no misconduct' on the ROE so we cannont prove that he got let go because he was not working. She owns a business and I think he has been working with her and taking care of the kids. Hes a sales rep that works from home so knowing him he was not doing his job! IN that case he cant lower the support. Our agreement states that he must maintain insurance for the kids however my agreement is so bad that I am sure he will find away around it! The ortho coverage only gives you 1/3 up front then then you co-ordinate bennifits at 100 for my daughter which I am going to recover all but 150$ and then our son is at 200 of which I can only recover 100 per month for the 09 months! At any rate Its all so hard to know what to do. He said if i agree to the lower amount he wont have to go to court. If he brings a motion then I am spending money on a lawyer! and then am taking my chances that the judge will side with him and Ive wasted more money! Amazing that the choices you make can come back to haunt you. My saving grace is that I have two amazing children.

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                      • #12
                        Sorry forgot to say thanks for your help and listening

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                        • #13
                          Child Support

                          OK I had started a thread but not sure I got the answers I was looking for.
                          Ex has gotten himself fired, new wife has own business house both cars mercedes and Yukon in her name. Ex decides to be self employed and asked me to Bite the bullet while he gets started in his new business. Hes a liar from way back and wants me to continue to raise our children 24/7 no visitation and cuts the suppor to a 1/4 of what we are getting and be happy with it! Can he do that

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                          • #14
                            I believe that this question was answered.
                            The answer is that he can physically stop payment yes, but can he legally, NO!
                            Legally he MUST return to court to have an order varied. If there is no clear order then a mutual agreement would also be OK, but it MUST be signed and sworn by both parties.

                            If he was ordered to pay a certain CS amount, and has now unilaterally decided and commenced a change without an order, then you are obligated to take the issue back to court. If they see that he indeed should have maintained CS at the ordered amount, then arrears will be applied to his case and then submitted to the FRO for enforcement if it already has not happened with the first order. If the amount of CS was to be reduced but not as low as he reduced it, then again, the courts will apply arrears to him and they will be deducted up to 50% of him employment income, or EI whatever form of income he has.

                            If you do not take this issue back to court, then you are basically "letting" him do as he pleases. I feel that you could apply for legal aid to offset or cover the court costs. Self rep in this case should be straight forward as well. You summit the claim, by attending your local court house and asking them what forms to file, how and when. Proceed as they instructed with all proper documents, or post questions here for guidance, and the onus will be on him to show that the CS amount he is paying is accurate, other wise he is in arrears.

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                            • #15
                              Thank you.

                              Comment

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