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  • Extraordinary Expenses vs Extra curricular activities

    Hi!
    I recently got another request from my ex for consent to put the kids in swimming and an art class over the summer. What she means is "am I agreeing to pay 1/2 of these costs".
    I replied that because I pay about $800 per month in CS, and she earns a bit more than me each year (around $50,000), that I think the costs should be covered by her.
    I have 2 other children at home who I am a single father to, and I am having some issues with my house which are causing cash flow problems.
    She threatened to file the receipts for these things with the court as per our seperation agreement, to force me to pay.
    My question is...What are the potential risks to me if she files the receipts to a court? Am I at risk of being made to pay her legal costs? Am I at risk of being force to pay a share of the costs only? Will I need a lawyer to represent myself if she files some receipts to the court?
    I am reluctant to get into a big battle about this, but I feel she is also asking for a lot of extra $ above the CS I already pay. Should I just be paying it to avoid great hassles?

    Also, I find it frustrating that she is able to deduct all the child care costs and extracurricluar costs for our 2 children, given that I have been paying half of those costs and I am not allowed to claim costs for children that don't live with me.

    I would appreciate any thoughts of feedback you may have. I have found some past posts about Section 7 costs very helpful/interesting.

    Thanks for your thoughts!

  • #2
    It may depend on how your order is worded. If Section 7 expenses are addressed as 'proportionate to income' and/or requiring consent from both parties that may change how it is interpreted.

    Also would depend on the costs associated with the activities. Some of it would be covered by CS.

    The fact that you have other children and reno's going on will not likely be considered.

    Comment


    • #3
      Reminder, you only have to pay your proportional share for s7 expenses. And for athletic activities where the ex is able to use the child activities tax credit, the amount the ex is entitled to be reimbursed is calculated into the amount you are required to pay.

      So lets say child care (using Hypothetical numbers):

      Costs $500 per month for 2 kids
      She makes $52k a year
      she receives $100 per kid per month from the CCTB
      You make $48K per year
      She is able to deduct $6k for child care

      Child care costs = $500 - $200 = $300

      The ex also gets $1000 back due to being able to deduct the $6k from their income = 1000/12=83.33

      $300-83.33 = $216.77 to be split 52/48 = $104.05 is your share.

      She doesn't get to get you to pay 1/2 of the actual cost when the real costs to her is significantly lower. Otherwise, using the numbers I gave (which were completely from air) she'd be making $30 per month off you.

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by HammerDad View Post
        Reminder, you only have to pay your proportional share for s7 expenses. And for athletic activities where the ex is able to use the child activities tax credit, the amount the ex is entitled to be reimbursed is calculated into the amount you are required to pay.

        So lets say child care (using Hypothetical numbers):

        Costs $500 per month for 2 kids
        She makes $52k a year
        she receives $100 per kid per month from the CCTB
        You make $48K per year
        She is able to deduct $6k for child care

        Child care costs = $500 - $200 = $300

        The ex also gets $1000 back due to being able to deduct the $6k from their income = 1000/12=83.33

        $300-83.33 = $216.77 to be split 52/48 = $104.05 is your share.

        She doesn't get to get you to pay 1/2 of the actual cost when the real costs to her is significantly lower. Otherwise, using the numbers I gave (which were completely from air) she'd be making $30 per month off you.
        True, but not all "extracurricular" activities are s7 (ie extraordinary).

        Swimming lessons and art class are not extraordinary for 100K combined income and she can reasonably cover the expense.

        (1.1) For the purposes of paragraphs (1)(d) and (f), the term “extraordinary expenses” means
        a) expenses that exceed those that the spouse requesting an amount for the extraordinary expenses can reasonably cover, taking into account that spouse’s income and the amount that the spouse would receive under the applicable table or, where the court has determined that the table amount is inappropriate, the amount that the court has otherwise determined is appropriate;

        Comment


        • #5
          Quit being so cheap - pay for the fucking swimming and art classes. You should quit reproducing if these are such a big deal for you.

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by arabian View Post
            Quit being so cheap - pay for the fucking swimming and art classes. You should quit reproducing if these are such a big deal for you.
            Cheap? He already paid for the fucking classes with CS. He is not cheap, he provides for his kids according to the child support guidelines.

            Do you have entitlement issues arabian?

            Comment


            • #7
              How often do you have the other kids? More or less than 40%

              Comment


              • #8
                I have them every 2nd weekend and then 2 evenings each week

                Comment


                • #9
                  I just got a copy of her tax package. She received 1200$ last year in Child Care Subsidy, and the total child care claimed was 1250$.
                  I paid her $625 for child care, but now I see the government also paid her 1200$ for child care. Now I think I should have only owed half the difference (25$). Is that true? Did I over pay by $600 for child support?
                  If the Child Care Subsidy covers the child care costs, does the noncustodial parent still need to pay for half of the costs?

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    You pay a portion of the cost AFTER the tax credits/deductions are made. So if the total costs were $650 and she recieved a $600 credit, the remaining balance would be $50, split proportionate to income.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      The most significant part of the OP is this:
                      I am having some issues with my house which are causing cash flow problems.
                      If you reasonably believe that you would not have paid for the extra curricular activities for the children had you and your Ex been together, due to your financial circumstances, then you have grounds to withhold consent to the extra-ordinary expense.

                      In writing, explain the situation to your ex; that you cannot afford the extra-ordinary activities and, as such, withhold your consent from them. She is free to enroll the kids in the activities, at her own expense.

                      However, I would be very reluctant to avoid paying a share in your children's activities for the following reasons:
                      1 - Increased acrimony between you and your ex;
                      2 - it is good for the kids; and
                      3 - if you are underestimating your financial capability you risk getting a smack on the nose at court.

                      As an aside, I would look into the tax deductions claimed by your ex as elaborated in Blink's post above.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by blinkandimgone View Post
                        You pay a portion of the cost AFTER the tax credits/deductions are made. So if the total costs were $650 and she recieved a $600 credit, the remaining balance would be $50, split proportionate to income.
                        Almost. She still claims the $50 as tax deduction, if she is paying tax at arouind 30% fed/prov rate, then she actually paid $35. His share is $17.50.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Thanks Mess!

                          Comment

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