Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Post Secondary

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Post Secondary

    Hi everyone,

    A few questions:

    I have a settled issue through mediation that my ex wants to change regarding our 18 and 21 year old. We agreed the kids were old enough to decide where they wanted to spend their time. Also we agreed we would each discuss our own plans with the kids regarding further education.

    Within two years of this agreement, the oldest of the two children is finishing her last year of college. She and I opened a line of credit. When she's done, if she has any debt, I'll help her pay it off. She has very little debt and has done well.

    My second child has opted to spend more time at her dads. She gets whatever she likes. Her last year of school when she should have been planning for further education, she bought a car with her dad's help, paid for a $2000 graduation trip and had driving fines $2000. She's flip flopped about what she wants to do (travel, nursing, hotel management) and has now settled on an out of town university. She isn't sure what her end goal is, she wants the "experience" of living away from home. I've told her I would set her up like her sister and she needed to save. She will have more debt and I've tried steering her away from the idea considering she has no real idea of what she wants to do. It's an expensive way to go about "finding" yourself. Her dad didn't say anything about our first child and hasn't helped her out but now wants our youngest to have our full support. He wants me to pay 1/3 of all costs. I said I would pay one third of tuition but she could go to school locally and save living expenses. But the two of them are adamant she go where she likes and I just pay for it.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

  • #2
    If she lives locally with Dad, wouldn't you just be stuck paying child support anyway?

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by Janus View Post
      If she lives locally with Dad, wouldn't you just be stuck paying child support anyway?


      No. it's in my town not his. And she would be back and forth as she likes. That's what we agreed.


      Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by Janus View Post
        If she lives locally with Dad, wouldn't you just be stuck paying child support anyway?


        I guess I'm wondering if and why the two children will be treated differently legally. One child is following the plan and doing great. The other didn't make any plans and now just wants a free ride. I can't see that being supported. Especially with an offer on the table to attend school locally with tuition support and all necessities taken care of.
        And what is the limit with all of this. If she wanted to go abroad for school, would that be an automatic expense on the parents?





        Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by Star7ontario View Post
          I guess I'm wondering if and why the two children will be treated differently legally. One child is following the plan and doing great. The other didn't make any plans and now just wants a free ride. I can't see that being supported. Especially with an offer on the table to attend school locally with tuition support and all necessities taken care of.
          And what is the limit with all of this. If she wanted to go abroad for school, would that be an automatic expense on the parents?





          Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


          So you want her to go to he local school so she lives with you and you get CS from Dad? There are MANY children that study at schools a few hours from home. If that's what your child wants to do why would you limit that? You are required by law to pay a portion of post secondary expenses. The child going to school abroad is extreme but the child choosing to go to a school a few hours away is acceptable. I do think you would lose this battle. That being said you are only on the hook for 1/3, Dad would have to come up with his 1/3 and the child would have to come up with 1/3 as well.

          Hopefully you can work this out with your child because it's not fair to limit her experience just to save you money. This could potentially shape the future relationship with this child


          Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by Berner_Faith View Post
            So you want her to go to he local school so she lives with you and you get CS from Dad? There are MANY children that study at schools a few hours from home. If that's what your child wants to do why would you limit that? You are required by law to pay a portion of post secondary expenses. The child going to school abroad is extreme but the child choosing to go to a school a few hours away is acceptable. I do think you would lose this battle. That being said you are only on the hook for 1/3, Dad would have to come up with his 1/3 and the child would have to come up with 1/3 as well.

            Hopefully you can work this out with your child because it's not fair to limit her experience just to save you money. This could potentially shape the future relationship with this child


            Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


            No I don't want CS. I don't want or need support of any kind.


            Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by Berner_Faith View Post
              So you want her to go to he local school so she lives with you and you get CS from Dad? There are MANY children that study at schools a few hours from home. If that's what your child wants to do why would you limit that? You are required by law to pay a portion of post secondary expenses. The child going to school abroad is extreme but the child choosing to go to a school a few hours away is acceptable. I do think you would lose this battle. That being said you are only on the hook for 1/3, Dad would have to come up with his 1/3 and the child would have to come up with 1/3 as well.

              Hopefully you can work this out with your child because it's not fair to limit her experience just to save you money. This could potentially shape the future relationship with this child


              Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


              An education is not about experience. It's for a career and if she had any idea about what she wanted I would support that. So far her aspirations have been to get stoned and party. And that behaviour is fully enabled by the her dad. She needs an undergrad. She can get that locally. I've also spoken with her about some ideas for finding more about different career paths she's interested in so that by the end of her undergrad she'll know what she wants, be more mature and going away to school at that point won't be for another party.




              Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

              Comment


              • #8
                Unfortunately there is no easy answer to your dilemma. Reasons being:
                A) you reached an agreement through mediation
                B) you didnt follow that agreement
                C) you allowed your child to choose

                It doesnt matter who is at fault here, you are now in a position where it is a crapshoot what a court would decide.

                In which case the law would be considered. Lewi v Lewi is the major case that is followed. Kids are responsible for a portion of expenses. That portion is higher if they go away. Parents are responsible for the rest.

                You have to decide if its worth 25,000 and up in legal fees to fight it.

                Best case scenario, you make an offer: if she goes away it has to be a reasonable program with future employment possibilities; she has to cover her tuition (if she is eligible for grants she must apply-OSAP offers up to 30% off tuition); you and your ex split the cost for residence (insist she spend her first year in residence as there are rules on drugs, alcohol and partying), books, and reasonable costs like medications/supplies etc. Transportation home is paid for by the parent she visits.

                Going away to school isnt a bad thing and some kids smarten up. If you also insist on a specific grade expectation (ie no failures, nothing less than a c+) then there is a certain level of responsibility.

                This is one of those closing the barn doors situations. You both allowed this behaviour in your kid. You allowed her to choose. Now you are stuck with it. The courts will order you both to split her costs anyway, might as well set a limit on what is paid for. Tuition is ~$8000 and residence/other costs will run ~$15,000 total. This is about 1/3 but still puts responsibility on kid.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Is the non-local school a decent university with good programs? If so, how about a compromise:

                  You and Dad will help Kid with the costs of going away (she pays 1/3, you and Dad split 2/3) for the first year. If she does well (good marks, no getting into trouble from partying), you'll continue to support her there. If she doesn't do well (poor marks or too much partying - you'll need to establish pretty explicit standards for what "not doing well" means), you'll share the cost of her going to a local university and living at home in her second and third years, but if she wants to continue living away, she'll have to pay for it herself.

                  The first year is generally the most challenging, so if she makes it through that, she is likely to do okay in later years. Also most first year courses can be transferred to other institutions for credit.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Stripes, how is this a compromise. It seems like any of these so called written agreements become invalidated very quickly when one wants to dispute it. my own written separation agreement doesn't seem to be worth the paper it's written on.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      It's a compromise because you're not getting exactly what you want (Kid goes to school at home) and Dad and Kid aren't getting exactly what they want (Kid gets to spend four years partying somewhere while parents pick up the tab). Giving her a trial year to go to university away from home with conditions (must maintain a B- average in a regular degree programme, must live on campus) gives Kid a chance to earn the privilege of attending university on her own. And if she blows it, you're in a much stronger position to say that you aren't willing to contribute to her university education away from home because she's demonstrated that she can't handle it.

                      Any agreement you and Dad make can always be revisited by one of you or reopened in mediation. But having some sort of agreement in writing is better than nothing.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by rockscan View Post
                        Unfortunately there is no easy answer to your dilemma. Reasons being:
                        A) you reached an agreement through mediation
                        B) you didnt follow that agreement
                        C) you allowed your child to choose

                        It doesnt matter who is at fault here, you are now in a position where it is a crapshoot what a court would decide.

                        In which case the law would be considered. Lewi v Lewi is the major case that is followed. Kids are responsible for a portion of expenses. That portion is higher if they go away. Parents are responsible for the rest.

                        You have to decide if its worth 25,000 and up in legal fees to fight it.

                        Best case scenario, you make an offer: if she goes away it has to be a reasonable program with future employment possibilities; she has to cover her tuition (if she is eligible for grants she must apply-OSAP offers up to 30% off tuition); you and your ex split the cost for residence (insist she spend her first year in residence as there are rules on drugs, alcohol and partying), books, and reasonable costs like medications/supplies etc. Transportation home is paid for by the parent she visits.

                        Going away to school isnt a bad thing and some kids smarten up. If you also insist on a specific grade expectation (ie no failures, nothing less than a c+) then there is a certain level of responsibility.

                        This is one of those closing the barn doors situations. You both allowed this behaviour in your kid. You allowed her to choose. Now you are stuck with it. The courts will order you both to split her costs anyway, might as well set a limit on what is paid for. Tuition is ~$8000 and residence/other costs will run ~$15,000 total. This is about 1/3 but still puts responsibility on kid.
                        We did reach an agreement early in the last year of my youngest's high school. I'm not sure what you mean by "you didn't stick to it". We absolutely did stick to it. The thinking was that they were both going into adulthood and we didn't see telling them they have to legally be 50/50 with each of us. So we agreed they would stay where they like and see us as they like. My ex moved from the town we both lived in, in the winter of that year. My youngest finished her school year out and planned to take a year off as the oldest did.
                        As I'm sure anyone is aware that parenting when kids live in two places isn't always easy. I am home every night, have expectations (the kids do their homework, work at some employment, clean their bathroom and their areas weekly and as they have gotten older they cook a meal here and there, or help prepare it, and do their laundry). I don't condone or allow drug use - I think it is harmful, especially to teens, as their brains are developing still. When I say all of that, I'm sure it sounds boring and anal but their is a lot of responsibility and freedom that comes with being an adult and my goal has always been the gradual release of responsibility. And to celebrate it. But everything went south for my youngest. It was never easy, the kids always fought a lot, swearing at each other, when they came from their dad's. He's out late a lot or away on trips. So when you say "you are both responsible" for my youngest's behaviour, I have to disagree. When she was with me, she was much more settled. She had boundaries and expectations of respect. We could talk. Now she is like a whole different person. It is very hard to see your kids go like this. And it isn't like I could've gone to a lawyer because it is different parenting styles at the end of the day. When my ex and I spoke about my daughter's drug use, he was on board and concerned. We agreed on consequences and strategies going forward and our united front brought her back to reality finally. That lasted until she went to his house and he decided she'd had enough unilaterally because he would rather be liked by her than parent her. An enabled, spoiled child is not something that you go to court over.

                        I would think that a precedent would be set with the agreement and plan working out with the first child, the second child would expect the same. Why would my ex husband be allowed to not do anything to help my first - or go along with choosing not to help the first child but now try to get financial support for the second?

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by blwl View Post
                          Stripes, how is this a compromise. It seems like any of these so called written agreements become invalidated very quickly when one wants to dispute it. my own written separation agreement doesn't seem to be worth the paper it's written on.
                          This is what I'm upset about! I agree with you!

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Star7ontario View Post
                            Why would my ex husband be allowed to not do anything to help my first - or go along with choosing not to help the first child but now try to get financial support for the second?
                            Your children are different. Perhaps it was in the bests interests of the first to gain her independence, and perhaps it is in the best interests of the second to have the parents pay for an education in a different town.

                            Normally, the parents would discuss it amongst themselves and figure out what works in their budget. In family law world, parents have to fund the education of their children. It is wonky, it is wrong, it is not even law... but it is case law, and that makes it even stronger than law.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              I would like to see the case law on this. Because a person wants to do something does not just automatically equal what is their "best interest".

                              Comment

                              Our Divorce Forums
                              Forums dedicated to helping people all across Canada get through the separation and divorce process, with discussions about legal issues, parenting issues, financial issues and more.
                              Working...
                              X