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FRO Motion and Costs + Final Order (imputed income) vs Actual income

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  • FRO Motion and Costs + Final Order (imputed income) vs Actual income

    Alright folks, dig in.

    1- FRO is overcalculating the arrears by about 100%. the stbx provided them with the amounts (*which are about $500 less than what i actually paid but i don't think i can recover those from her i.e. i paid via joint bank account & some cash)

    I have decided to agree with those amounts.

    FRO's "Statement of Arrears" Schedule "A" clearly shows that the ex has informed them of the amount i am agreeing to.

    However they have doubled that amount on "outstanding arrears" and sent a letter to my employer to start deducting 50% of the arrears.

    I spoke with the idiot who calls him self the "enforcement officer" who did see the "schedule A" and did see the amounts but refused to correct it stating "the calculations from finance department are always correct" as you may already be aware there is no way to speak to some one at the finance department.

    how do i fix this? do i need to bring a motion against FRO? would it be a separate application or the same application as in the family case?
    most importantly; if the motion is successful can costs be ordered against FRO? i.e. they fix the arrears and then pay them because of costs lol (i know i am living in fantasyland, dont beat me)

    2- whats the best and fastest way to freeze the arrears? i can not even live with the pay i receive after the deductions and have been borrowing money just to live.

    3- I had employment income (~70500) and investment losses last year (22k), when i got thrown out of my place my ex kept my personal computer which had all records of my business transactions, due to which i couldn't file taxes and as a result the court imputed me income of 60k and ordered to pay CS & SS based on that. court also ordered me to provide my T4 to the ex, which i did, it was almost ~$70500.

    before i provided the T4 ex asked that the order of CS be final on the imputed income, i agreed, judge endorsed it.

    now on an access motion the ex's lawyer raised this issue and wanted another $100 in CS, I immediately objected on following grounds

    1- The motion was not about this matter
    2- The order on CS was final.
    3- The T4 does not take into account the investment losses which would bring down income to about 47K or so.
    4- I received a 23% paycut this year which would amount to material change in circumstances (would it? i just threw it out, no one objected)

    the judge simply refused to talk about that issue on an access motion, but the real question is

    what can she do to screw me now since its a final order.
    Last edited by sahibjee; 09-12-2012, 04:53 PM. Reason: grr typos

  • #2
    When I had problems with our local MEP I did up a spreadsheet and a covering letter and faxed it in. I was able to make an appointment to go in and review it with them (in Alberta we can do this). If you can't go in person make sure you submit something that is very, very simple to follow.

    If it's just a matter of the finance department making the error then that shouldn't be difficult to fix. Insofar as the motions etc. you have to keep in mind that the people that work in these places aren't lawyers.

    Keep things simple.

    Comment


    • #3
      Nothing is ever truly FINAL in Family Court. Most everything can be re-visited, re-opened.

      Interesting: not saying it wasn't the case for your situation, but my ex used that exact same story re: the computer and all the info and records. In our matter, he was totally lying but funny - to see that identical scenario come up ^
      Last edited by hadenough; 09-12-2012, 10:30 PM.

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by hadenough View Post
        Nothing is ever truly FINAL in Family Court. Most everything can be re-visited, re-opened.

        Interesting: not saying it wasn't the case for your situation, but my ex used that exact same story re: the computer and all the info and records. In our matter, he was totally lying but funny - to see that identical scenario come up ^
        lol may be you should have returned his computer, i think its quite petty to keep some one's personal belongings. its my computer, she has never had access to it. i am a geek, every geek has their pet machine that they build with love. other than trying to pain you ex i see no reason why one would keep something like that. plus it contained all my childhood pictures, she knew i'd be pissed ... she won.
        plus because i couldnt file taxes, i am missing out on a good 10-12 k in refunds as per my very rough calculations.

        Comment


        • #5
          Well I did give the asshat all the files etc and he completely made up one story after the next, including the "she kept my computer" story.

          I agree, it is petty and these items ought to have been given to you.

          Comment


          • #6
            I'm not sure what documentation you have to support your claims? But from my own experience, you better have everything tabbed, explained and get advised by JP on the process and your chances of success.

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by DadinLaw View Post
              I'm not sure what documentation you have to support your claims? But from my own experience, you better have everything tabbed, explained and get advised by JP on the process and your chances of success.
              I have cheques that she cashed. would that work?

              Comment


              • #8
                I'm just a little confused, did you file you taxes for the last three years? What is your total income on line 150? Fro will be using a CS payment amount based by this number, calculated based on the Child Support Guidelines. Unless you come up with a justified reason as to why it should be a lower amount, it will be a hard route. I was going to write more but honestly your situation is more complicated than it sounds.

                Comment


                • #9
                  sounds like you're pretty good at keeping "dirt" on your ex but conveniently can't file taxes due to loss of information..... pretty lame.

                  You can always file a tax return and when you get additional information you file an adjusting tax return.

                  Playing the victim doesn't cut it. My ex did that and it didn't work for him either.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by DadinLaw View Post
                    I'm just a little confused, did you file you taxes for the last three years? What is your total income on line 150? Fro will be using a CS payment amount based by this number, calculated based on the Child Support Guidelines. Unless you come up with a justified reason as to why it should be a lower amount, it will be a hard route. I was going to write more but honestly your situation is more complicated than it sounds.
                    I filed taxes for all years except this year, FRO dosnt have to determine the amounts of child support as the amounts are already determined by the judge based on an imputed income of $60,000.

                    I showed the letter from FRO to the accountant in the HR department of our office, he punched in all the numbers and told me that I am 100% right in stating that they are charging ~$2200 more than what i owe them. the only issue is how to fix it since they already acknowledge in their own calculations that I dont owe them that amount yet insist that I must pay it.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      I might be wrong, but from my experience FRO does not do any calculations of spousal or child support, all they do is act on the Court Order. If the FRO are not following the Court Order, then complain to FRO. If the Court Order is wrong, then go back to court. Be careful with arrears, if your ex has opted to use the FRO then you must not pay her direct. You have to wait for the FRO Case Number and pay FRO (either from your bank account or wait until they take it from your pay).

                      Hope that helps :-)

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                      • #12
                        True... Fro only acts as directed.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by FatherFigure View Post
                          I might be wrong, but from my experience FRO does not do any calculations of spousal or child support, all they do is act on the Court Order. If the FRO are not following the Court Order, then complain to FRO. If the Court Order is wrong, then go back to court. Be careful with arrears, if your ex has opted to use the FRO then you must not pay her direct. You have to wait for the FRO Case Number and pay FRO (either from your bank account or wait until they take it from your pay).

                          Hope that helps :-)
                          Thanks for the feedback, it did help
                          1- the court order is correct (in giving me credit for the payments made etc)
                          2- the amounts submitted by my ex are agreed upon
                          3- FRO's finanace departments calculations simply double the amounts for an unexplained reason.
                          4- the "enforcement officer" i complained to was of no use as he said he cannot correct the items.
                          5- they have sent a letter to my employer asking them to deduct the incorrect amounts, my employer has no option but to comply.

                          I will fax them the correct amounts, give them 5 days to fix it, then bring a motion if they dont fix it within 5 business days?. is that fair?

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            While maintenance enforcement organizations do not "calculate" CS/SS (In Alberta they do have a re-calculation program for CS) awards, they do indeed have to do a certain amount of calculating when partial payments or late payments are received. You have to check to ensure the dates that payments are initiated are correct as well as any fines/interest payments. Sometimes they make mistakes on other things such as recording lump sum payments towards arrears as a regular payment. This can make a substantial difference. Check everything over carefully and remember that human error isn't unusual as someone, somewhere has to input the figures into the system. It took me nearly a year of persistent nagging to get the MEP in my province to correct their errors.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by sahibjee View Post
                              Thanks for the feedback, it did help
                              1- the court order is correct (in giving me credit for the payments made etc)
                              2- the amounts submitted by my ex are agreed upon
                              3- FRO's finanace departments calculations simply double the amounts for an unexplained reason.
                              4- the "enforcement officer" i complained to was of no use as he said he cannot correct the items.
                              5- they have sent a letter to my employer asking them to deduct the incorrect amounts, my employer has no option but to comply.

                              I will fax them the correct amounts, give them 5 days to fix it, then bring a motion if they dont fix it within 5 business days?. is that fair?
                              I don't think you can bring a motion against the FRO ..... I think you have to complain direct to them.

                              Good luck and I'm interested in how you get on because they think I'm in arrears too so likely I'll be asking for your advice (I've told them twice, with evidence that I'm not in arrears)

                              Comment

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