Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Hi all, new to the forums

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Hi all, new to the forums

    Hi all! Not happy to be here considering the name of the forum, but happy all the same to see other people going through the same issues and having a place to read about other peoples experiences with them.

    As for my relationship with my wife, we don't hate each other and never have (but that can change quickly when one of the partners needs money).

    Long story short, we have been very good room mates for the last 10 years, we sleep in the same bed, vacation at times together. We have stayed in this for my daughter, right or wrong. My daughter is 17 now.

    My daughter started dating a hockey player from a different town about 8 months ago. he was playing for a team in our town and my wife and daughter thought it would be a good idea for him to stay with us. I said no of course because they would be sleeping in the same bed (he is 19 an not in school or working other than hockey, and yes, he does get paid to play, but not much). Of course, I was over ruled and he moved in anyway. He got drafted to his home town in the OHL 6 months later, and my daughter decided to go live with him and his mother and finish school there. My wife of course knows this is a bad thing since they fight all the time now, and she often intervenes Saturday night around 2AM, so she decides to move to that town too so my daughter has a place to live if anything goes wrong. She gave me 3 weeks notice. We have 30k equity in the house (used to have much more, but I already remortgaged twice to pay off credit cards of hers that I didn't know she had (about 20k now) and now we have 50k in debt. I always kept to my wedding vows and overlooked these things, but now she wants to skip her half of the debt and have me pay all the debt and also pay her half of the equity in the house. I also have a 475 truck payment on top of all this (that she wanted me to buy)

    Regardless, I'm pretty sure I'm responsible for all the debt according to the courts, and I make about 40k a year more than her.

    When she told me she was leaving, she was talking about how she was going to Disney Land with her parents, and I could keep all the furniture because she was going to get new stuff, is going to buy a new car ......... She's out to lunch far more than I imagined! No wonder we're broke, she doesn't understand finances, and I'm clearly too stupid to put my foot down like I should have. Going through the bank statements, I find on average, $1100/month between Wal-Mart and grocery store. I think I'm screwed. Going to meet with a Mortgage specialist tomorrow to see if I can at least keep the house. Won't be able to keep my truck payments up though. If I could float it for 1 year, I could give it back with an $1800 penalty, but how much am I going to have to pay if it's repossessed?

    I just rambled a whole lot. Sorry, just a lot of things going through my mind.

  • #2
    Welcome, DJ. Wow. Sounds like you've been hit put of the blue with a terrible surprise. I truly hope your separation will be amicable and without too much bickering. Please keep reading the forum - there are so many very knowledgeable and helpful people here.

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by dice_jay View Post

      I just rambled a whole lot. Sorry, just a lot of things going through my mind.

      Greetings dice, I've been a member for a couple of weeks and have gained some much needed perspective by reading the posts.

      No need for apologies, ramble on as much as you need to

      Comment


      • #4
        Are you married or common law?

        It has distinct differences regarding how things should be split.

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by dice_jay View Post
          Regardless, I'm pretty sure I'm responsible for all the debt according to the courts, and I make about 40k a year more than her..
          You take the assets each of you had at the date of marriage, minus any debt.

          You take the assets you have now, minus any debt.

          You subtract the two, showing how much you accumulated during the marriage.

          This amount is then split 50/50. There can be some other considerations, but this is the basic method. You are not responsible for the debt in the sense you fear. If you have that much debt in your name, then you subtract it from the value of the home and other assets, and the amount paid out to your STBX will be that much smaller.

          Example:

          Home: 300,000 value - 270,000 mortagage = 30k
          Other Assets (RRSP, truck, etc.) 70k
          Total Assets: 100k

          Your Asset: 50k (50% of total)
          Less: Credit card debt: 50k (presume it is all in your name)
          Total: $0

          Her Asset: 50k
          Less: 0 (all debt is in your name)
          Total: 50k

          Result: She owes you $25k

          In this scenario, presumably all the asset is staying in your hands, meaning you are staying in the house, keeping the truck, etc. So you pay her 25k to keep what is her share in your name. If you have RRSP, then they are transferable without paying income tax, and this would be the most sensible way to pay the equalization.

          Comment


          • #6
            If they are common law there is no equalization of assets as Mess describes... that's why it was the first question I asked.

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by FightingForFamily View Post
              If they are common law there is no equalization of assets as Mess describes... that's why it was the first question I asked.
              2nd paragraph, 7th word - wife.

              Dice, as Mess explained, there will be no "skipping" out of the ex's share of the debt. Has she brought up spousal support yet?

              On the bright side, you only have the 1 daughter, who is now in her late teens -- child support/s7 tuition will end within the next 6 years.

              Shop around with your mortgage specialists - the banks are offering some great rates. Check with your existing mortgage company re: prepayment penalties before you commit to anyone.

              And the moment you leave the office of your mortgage specialist, get yourself to a lawyer's office so you can prepare yourself for what is to come. Have you thought about changing the locks?
              Start a discussion, not a fire. Post with kindness.

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by mcdreamy View Post


                And the moment you leave the office of your mortgage specialist, get yourself to a lawyer's office so you can prepare yourself for what is to come. Have you thought about changing the locks?
                He cannot do that as it is the matrimonial home. He has no right to lock her out. He needs to get exclusive possession to do that.

                Comment


                • #9
                  First of all, does your wife really consider that the marriage is ending, or does she just see herself as moving out temporarily for the benefit of your daughter? I dont know if youre not saying, but it sounds like you really need a long discussion with your wife before things move along irrevocably.

                  Four aspects to separation: Equalization, Child Custody, Child Access and Spousal Support.

                  Equalization your ex-wife is still responsible for half the debt incurred over the course of the marriage. She cant get out of it just by moving away. As Mess explained, you divide up the marital assets and debt fairly, so that each spouse leaves the marriage with the same net worth increase over the course of the marriage. The important thing for you both to understand is that her share of the house equity will have her half of the debt subtracted from it. You need to sit down and figure out your numbers, along the lines of Mess sample, to see whats what.

                  Child Custody decision-making about your daughters health, education and religion isnt going to be an issue for very long, due to her age. In fact, shes pretty much withdrawn from parental control already by moving in with her boyfriend. It should be joint unless you really want to wash your hands of your daughter.

                  Child Support should be paid, by both you AND your ex-wife, based on your incomes, to the mother of the boyfriend, for as long as your daughter remains in school and resides there. It can stop when she turns 18 and/or graduates high school. After that, if she pursues post-secondary education, you can each support her directly, in amounts you desire. If she moves back in with one of you, then things might become more formal again.

                  Spousal Support this is not automatic. Start from the basis that your wife has her own career, even if her income is less than yours, and is perfectly capable of supporting herself. Unless she made career sacrifices to benefit your own career advancement, or there was mutual agreement that she put her career on hold for raising your child, theres no entitlement to it.

                  Close the joint accounts, close the joint credit cards, you pay your own bills in the marital home and she worries about all her own expenses in the new town. If you cannot afford the marital home on your own, youll have to sell it. But without your ex-wifes crazy spending, even without her income, you may find yourself in a better financial position overall.

                  The most important thing in all of this is your daughter. Sounds like shes head over heels for a guy who is all wrong for her. You say they fought all the time, and now that shes out of your home you cant be there for her as easily. Keep in good contact with her, because shell need you when the relationship ends (or if it gets more serious). Your ex-wife may even be doing a wise thing by moving closer to her so that theres a stable home for her to go to if things go south, but also make sure your daughter knows that she is equally able to come back to you as well.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Wow! thanks for all the replies.
                    Going through my previous mortgages and refinances, I show I have already paid about 25k in debts she took on without my knowledge. I don't know why I kept doing it, but she picked me out of the gutter when I was 22, and for some stupid reason, I hold that close, and I just kept letting her get away with it. Every time, I thought she learned a lesson. Apparently, neither of us did.

                    Yeah, I think she's fully responsible for half the debt if not more. The problem is that she can't pay it. Even with my child support, she won't make it. I can actually get out of paying support all together (won't discuss why because of legalities) but I won't do that. As angry as I am with her, I can't let her starve, and I sure won't my daughter starve. Even if she agreed to pay half, they would come after me when she defaulted.

                    As for spousal support, From the time my daughter was born until she was 12, we worked opposite shifts and shared all responsibility. She was never a stay at home mom, nor has our marriage ever effected her career in a negative way, she also has a college education (that I paid a collection agency about 3k to pay it off) So, I find it unlikely that she would get it anyway. I make 70k, she makes 24k...... so..... that may be a bit of an issue.

                    I did meet up with a mortgage specialist today. When I gave a brief description as to what was going on, he came in on his week off to crunch numbers for me. He says he can pull it off, but it won't be easy, and that is if my wife will sign the papers she says she will. meaning that I pay her $400/month for 36 months instead of $650. That still puts me paying a lot more debt, and the interest to boot. According to my budget, that will leave me with $375/month (before any OT or bonuses, but you can't budget those things) for food,unexpected expenses and gas. Not a pretty picture, but that would give me the house, my truck, and my sled. I can do without my truck and sled, but if they are repossessed, then my credit is screwed anyway.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Rioe,

                      My wife already had her transfer in before she talked to me. I know she wouldn't have done it if she talked to me first, but she half assed admitted, she didn't want to look foolish and pull her transfer after getting all that support and good advice from her fellow divorced co workers......

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by dice_jay View Post
                        Yeah, I think she's fully responsible for half the debt if not more. The problem is that she can't pay it. Even with my child support, she won't make it. I can actually get out of paying support all together (won't discuss why because of legalities) but I won't do that. As angry as I am with her, I can't let her starve, and I sure won't my daughter starve. Even if she agreed to pay half, they would come after me when she defaulted.
                        You don't need to pay her child support because your child doesn't live with her. Your child support should be going to the household where your daughter actually lives - with her boyfriend's mother. Or is there another child you haven't mentioned?

                        And if you do equalization right, you will end up with the entire debt, but balanced out by keeping more assets as well. So she won't have to worry about paying it, you don't have to worry about her defaulting, and she can feed herself no problem.

                        Originally posted by dice_jay View Post
                        As for spousal support, From the time my daughter was born until she was 12, we worked opposite shifts and shared all responsibility. She was never a stay at home mom, nor has our marriage ever effected her career in a negative way, she also has a college education (that I paid a collection agency about 3k to pay it off) So, I find it unlikely that she would get it anyway. I make 70k, she makes 24k...... so..... that may be a bit of an issue.
                        Maybe, but the onus is on her to prove she is entitled and needs spousal support, not on you to prove that she doesn't.

                        Originally posted by dice_jay View Post
                        I did meet up with a mortgage specialist today. When I gave a brief description as to what was going on, he came in on his week off to crunch numbers for me. He says he can pull it off, but it won't be easy, and that is if my wife will sign the papers she says she will. meaning that I pay her $400/month for 36 months instead of $650. That still puts me paying a lot more debt, and the interest to boot. According to my budget, that will leave me with $375/month (before any OT or bonuses, but you can't budget those things) for food,unexpected expenses and gas. Not a pretty picture, but that would give me the house, my truck, and my sled. I can do without my truck and sled, but if they are repossessed, then my credit is screwed anyway.
                        Okay, then get the higher mortgage solely in your name, use the extra to pay off ALL the debt, close all the joint accounts, and be a financially independent responsible spender from here on. Let your ex worry about herself. Why would you pay her $400 a month?

                        It sounds like you feel bad for the way the marriage ended, and still have feelings for your spouse, which is natural. But honestly, from your description, she is not reciprocating and hasn't for many years. You are now entering into a business arrangement, and have to leave the emotions out of it, or she'll walk all over you, make you pity her, and bleed you dry.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Dice-jay....

                          My understanding is the CS may NOT be payable IF the child is at least 16 years old and 'has withdrawn from parental control". PERHAPS given she is not living with either you or your ex she might fit this description ? Might be worth looking into....

                          Also, you note earlier you want to pay support to the child and your ex since you don't want to see them financially in trouble. While admirable, I would strongly suggest you try and AVOID any mandated support if you can. Now, there is nothing saying that if you avoid mandatory SS or CS that you can't still "voluntarily" give financial support to your daughter or ex.

                          You may not realize it, but typically CS is given to the custodial parent AND there is NO ACCOUNTABILITY as to how the recipient parent spends it. He/she could waste it at the casino and that is their "right". The government really doesnt' care if CS is actually used for the child. So, better to avoid CS (if you can) BUT then voluntarily pay the child support at your discretion. That way, you know your daughter is getting your financial support rather than your ex possibly (based on your earlier comments) spending the money foolishly on herself.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Rioe View Post
                            It sounds like you feel bad for the way the marriage ended, and still have feelings for your spouse, which is natural. But honestly, from your description, she is not reciprocating and hasn't for many years. You are now entering into a business arrangement, and have to leave the emotions out of it, or she'll walk all over you, make you pity her, and bleed you dry.
                            Thank you Rioe, I had a meeting this am with my lawyer and he gave me similar advice (though yours was free lol). A lot of us tend to fall into this trap and sadly, end up regretting it.

                            Dice, if you can possibly contribute to your Ex's well being and your daughter's in a non official way, I'd say go for it if it's possible. Battling over this in court may end up costing you more than you can actually afford.

                            Once lawyers are involved, many Ex's turn greedy. Amicable solutions are the way to go - it keeps you in control of your own finances.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              I'm trying to avoid any court order CS and lawyers as well.

                              Realistically, my house is worth about 145k, real estate guy said that on a short notice sale and not having time to get things done (flooring, (I have dry core down now after the wet basement incident) trim and some paint in the basement, fix the leaky faucets in the tub and re grout the tiles in the tub, it's not bad. If we sold now, we'd get about 140K minus real estate fees, mortgage penalty, and lawyer fees, that would bring us each about 9k in equity. We owe 50K in debt, so that's not too good. I made her an offer of $16 750 to sign off on her half of the house and said I would also take the debt over in my name, BUT, she is to pay me $8300 back in reduced support payments for the next 3 years. She took my proposal to her parents last night, and I haven't heard from her since. I think it's a pretty damned good offer myself. If I can get the financing I hope for, I will be at a deficit of about $400/month for a year, and after that I will start coming ahead. My calculations are based on no overtime (about 5k/year take home) and not including the 2 "extra" pays each year (paid bi weekly)

                              On the bright side, I called an old friend that is an industrial plumber. He doesn't like doing favors for friends or family, but when I explained what was happening (he's divorced once and lost 20k to a common law) he came right over and quoted me $70 for parts and no labour, when a different plumber quoted me $900 for the same thing. I was his supervisor many moons ago, and I always try to treat people the way they deserve, so it's nice to see karma working for me. I hope it keeps up!

                              Comment

                              Our Divorce Forums
                              Forums dedicated to helping people all across Canada get through the separation and divorce process, with discussions about legal issues, parenting issues, financial issues and more.
                              Working...
                              X