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    Something for some of the men out there like me. whiteribbon.org

  • #2
    Originally posted by Just'in View Post
    Something for some of the men out there like me. whiteribbon.org
    Men's Rights Group Masquerades As Fake Domestic Violence Campaign To Confuse Donors | ThinkProgress

    Here's another version of the story?

    Comment


    • #3
      The White Ribbon Campaign is a real thing - Canadian organization for-men-by-men that works on ending violence against women. Jack Layton was one of the founders. It does a lot of excellent educational work and has an international reputation for getting dialog going on difficult topics. It's at whiteribbon.ca

      Whiteribbon.org is fake. It's created by "men's rights activists" who want to discredit the real White Ribbon. If you click on the fake site's donation page, it takes you to a Paypal account for something called A Voice for Men. This group is really nasty, they've been in trouble for advocating violence against identifiable (female) targets and have been designated a "hate group" by the American Southern Poverty Law Centre, which tracks all kinds of hate groups on the internet.

      So to the OP - I really hope this fake "White Ribbon" is not for "men like you". I hope you're better than that.

      Comment


      • #4
        I think AVfM goes too far some times but I understand some of their view point. There is a lot of money in the system dedicated to protecting women but quite literally nothing for men. If you're a man being abused, your only shelter is a homeless one. You won't be allowed or welcomed into any of the existing domestic violence shelters. Don't waste your time calling hot lines or speaking to social workers... they will tell you to "man up".

        People like WorkingDad and LF32 (and countless others) and especially their children are very much victims of legalized abuse against men and children by the current family law system and divorce industry.

        Someone like LF32 is trying to work a job, keep a house, pay CS and pay what must be tens of thousands of dollars in legal fees while his abuser sits in a free house, with free council, all paid for people who unwittingly donate money to things like the "legit" white ribbon fund.

        Real violence, against men or women, is horrendous. But propping up a system that only offers help to one segment of society (who often unscrupulously abuses that help in quite a few cases) is just as horrendous. If I donate money to the white ribbon campaign, I am directly funding people like "goldilocks" and "luba" who rely on it to continue their horrendous behaviour.

        Personally I would put my money somewhere else and not into either the real or fake white ribbon campaign.
        Last edited by FightingForFamily; 10-30-2014, 03:56 PM.

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by FightingForFamily View Post
          Someone like LF32 is trying to work a job, keep a house, pay CS and pay what must be tens of thousands of dollars in legal fees while his abuser sits in a free house, with free council, all paid for people who unwittingly donate money to things like the "legit" white ribbon fund.

          Real violence, against men or women, is horrendous. But propping up a system that only offers help to one segment of society (who often unscrupulously abuses that help in quite a few cases) is just as horrendous. If I donate money to the white ribbon campaign, I am directly funding people like "goldilocks" and "luba" who rely on it to continue their horrendous behaviour.

          Personally I would put my money somewhere else and not into either the real or fake white ribbon campaign.

          You're certainly free to contribute to whatever charitable cause you prefer, but I wanted to clear up a misapprehension about the White Ribbon.

          They don't give money to LF's ex or to the notorious Luba. They don't operate shelters. They're a volunteer organization that runs programmes for men and boys - if you look on their website, you'll see a lot of stuff about parenting skills for fathers, self-esteem building for boys, etc. The idea is that the best way to prevent domestic violence is to equip people with good skills and values for negotiating relationships. They're about prevention, and they focus on men because they believe that the man-to-man approach is effective.

          "The system" of domestic violence shelters and hotlines is there for people who need it. Some people abuse the system - like the ones you named - but that makes them jerks, it doesn't make "the system" wrong.

          Comment


          • #6
            IMO it does make the system wrong because there isn't an equivalent system in place to help WD or LF32.

            You may be right about the White Ribbon's aims, I'll admit I didn't do follow any of the links before replying.

            I also agree that building better people through mentoring, modelling and education is a good goal.

            Comment


            • #7
              People like WorkingDad and LF32 (and countless others) and especially their children are very much victims of legalized abuse against men and children by the current family law system and divorce industry.

              Someone like LF32 is trying to work a job, keep a house, pay CS and pay what must be tens of thousands of dollars in legal fees while his abuser sits in a free house, with free council, all paid for people who unwittingly donate money to things like the "legit" white ribbon fund.
              I 100% agree that there should be domestic violence shelters for men. Particularly because men often get accused of false DV and need somewhere to go when there is heavy conflict in a household.

              What I don't agree with is this bullcrap idea that men have it worse than women in dealing with family court.

              I had an ex that tried very similar tactics to WD of LF32's ex's. He put me through a 5 year idiotic legal battle and custody dispute that cost me a lot of money to fight. He and his 3 lawyers (1 in particular) levelled every accusation possible against me and I had no choice but to defend myself legally against every moronic affidavit he put forward. He used all types of delay tactics to try to crush me financially so I wouldn't be able to fight back.

              There are a lot of women here who've been repeatedly taken to court and put through endless legal battles. This has ZERO to do with gender. ZERO.

              The issue is that HC individuals experience very little penalty in family court for lying, for filing false affidavits, for contempt, for stalling, and for ramping up the other litigants legal expenses. In fact, there is no downside for people like this because sometimes their nonsense pays off. If they get caught in a lie...they may experience some loss in credibility overall but they don't get called on lying under oath. My ex got caught in a million lies after he was sworn in on depositions, etc...nothing happened to him at all.

              Even worse, there are lawyers who make taking on HC clients and ramping up their delusions their life work. There's no downside for them either. They terrorize the other litigant while they pad their legal bill. All they do is make more and more money. No judge really comes down on them and punishes them for being complicit in lying for their client.

              This is not a gender issue at all. The fact is that HC litigants need to be held accountable for the affidavits and false accusations they make. And if their lawyer's are participants in the lies on sworn documents, they also need to be held to account. Until that happens, nothing will change.

              I didn't whine about my gender fighting my legal battle because it had nothing to do with what was going on.
              Last edited by Pursuinghappiness; 10-30-2014, 05:51 PM.

              Comment


              • #8
                What I don't agree with is this bullcrap idea that men have it worse than women in dealing with family court.
                I don't think so. Every guy on this forum either has had to "fight" the system OR was treated fairly at best.

                I believe every women here who went through a divorce is either satisfied or very satisfied with how things turned out (in terms of legal consequences) no woman here says - "I got screwed by the system". Their ex might have tried to screw them but in every case they go their just deserts in terms of legal decision.

                Sure, in the case of a woman their ex might NOT abide by the law and the law has limitations on what it can do (but seriously they do everything to non-support payors they could reasonably do). Short of execution. The only reason they don't is because they hope one day the payor will start to pay.
                Last edited by Links17; 10-30-2014, 08:26 PM.

                Comment


                • #9
                  I disagree.
                  I am female and, like men and other women, I got screwed by the system. I continue to get screwed by the system.

                  I may have received a divorce judgment (that was the easy part) but I don't think anyone is 100% satisfied.

                  I get dragged back to court year after year.

                  I agree with previous poster that the system is quite "limp wristed" when it comes to holding people accountable for lying and contempt.

                  I was treated unfairly by the system when my business partner ripped me off simply because my business partner happened to be my husband. Police charged my ex with fraud over 5000.00 after a very thorough investigation. The prosecutor threw the case out simply because he felt it was a "family court matter." [I learned my lesson too late - never ever go into business with your spouse; being incorporated offers no protection to married people in our legal system it seems]. I think of all the years I paid a lot of money to maintain an incorporated business (accountant & legal fees alone). Total waste of money IMO.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    So Arabian, the judge didn't award you spousal support for life and compensate you in anyway for your ex-husband's machinations?

                    There are specific provisions which give unequal share in family assets if one person is found to have wasted them and it happens.

                    I

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      I truly apologize if I mistook the correct web address. Maybe the mods can correct that because I can't change it.

                      I can only speak from my experience and did not expect such a diverse response. Despite my own experience with DV, I can acknowledge that DV victims are GENDERLESS. They can be women, men AND children. Just because I'm a man, strung along like a puppet through an incredible legal battle, it doesn't mean that I don't see that WOMEN can also be true victims of abuse.

                      The sad fact is that BOTH men AND women also abuse the system, "claim" abuse against their partners (even same-sex partners) when there is no merit. Once that is done, no matter who the victim is, it's a huge legal battle to overcome. Does it matter if it's a man, woman, child or same-sex scenario?

                      A liar is a liar. A victim is a victim. Why should perspective change on right and wrong?

                      Either way, domestic abuse is NOT TOLERABLE. This is what researchers should be focussing on. Ya, maybe the "system" got it wrong based on facts available at the time. But those are the KEY words - facts available at the time.

                      As time progresses, liars claiming dv will be more easily spotted; and those liars can be women, men, AND children. An education is needed. And not enough is done for ALL THOSE that truly have or are facing dv.

                      Again, my apologies for posting the wrong link.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Just'in View Post
                        I truly apologize if I mistook the correct web address. Maybe the mods can correct that because I can't change it.


                        Again, my apologies for posting the wrong link.
                        No worries at all. We sometimes get some weird trolls here, especially around the issue of DV, but it's clear from your response that you're not one of them. I am very sorry about your experience, and I hope you are able to find some healing.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by stripes View Post
                          No worries at all. We sometimes get some weird trolls here, especially around the issue of DV, but it's clear from your response that you're not one of them. I am very sorry about your experience, and I hope you are able to find some healing.
                          Thanks stripes. To be honest, I've been through 2 marriages and both have been abusive. I thought after my first round in family court that I was going through hell. Seems my second round is 10 times worse! From police involvement (fabricated, dropped allegations), OCL, cas, the court system, and now mediation, she seems to have all the cards with rich friends that are paying for her team of lawyers. I'm basically self-repped. I love my kids. I CARED for my children more than she made herself available. Perhaps some residual anger there (sorry), but at the end of the day I still believe in love and I believe in family and I CAN acknowledge that dv is a reality for many of both genders (like my mother who was near-daily beaten by my father). I've seen many sides of this.

                          After much shame and sense of failure, I can be angry enough to advocate for "men's rights"... I won't. Mostly because I know that it isn't anybody's right to be abusive to another.

                          So I choose to advocate for the betterment of society. Perhaps naive, but at the very least it's genuine. DV simply should not be tolerated ANYWHERE, AGAINST ANYONE, no matter what GENDER, age, race, etc. DV is just wrong. When the courts are going to be educated enough to see this is a separate matter. DV is genderless and liars claiming dv are also genderless. It happens both ways.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            I came to this site many years ago seeking
                            advice, got some - bad advice - absoultly no
                            real world insight.

                            this site promotes 'status quo' cause its one
                            sided for now - don't be ashmed for having
                            a bulg in your undies'

                            the mission of this site is too make you all
                            smooth in front - afraid too speak up - else
                            your a troll too ...

                            its politically incorrect these days to
                            say a 'women attacked you' or made you a
                            victim - that's their turf ...

                            my Wife beat my kids till they bleed from the
                            mouth , she got custody too ... why ?

                            problem is in my 4 years in court only saw
                            1 or 2 men, in hindsight they were
                            rational - women, no way - same attitude as
                            my X - came out her vag*** dam if she's
                            going to pay for them ( quote from her
                            mouth not mine ), in todays society stereotype
                            untimely she is a victim OR NO AIRTIME

                            don't be sorry or ashamed cause you were born
                            a man and became a father

                            traveling abroad men in other other countrys know
                            Canada is a sh1thole saying 1 thing and doing
                            another. that's why 1 sex has 90% custody of children
                            here.

                            men get yourself a lawyer on advice of another
                            dad that did ok , do not waste every cent you
                            have fighting for your children as the lawyers
                            will pocket the coin knowing the 'socialst' Canadian
                            system will give her 50% or more custody.

                            the truth men is talking too your friends and family
                            asking "who gets the children " - you will be tagged a dead
                            beat if the lawyers drain you and then when your border line
                            financially 1 bad stroke of bad luck ( in addition to Family Law )
                            you cant pay and they will crucify you - this web site will
                            never blame a lawyer cause that's who owns it

                            dads that fight the system too the end fightening for their kids
                            are simply labeled 'dead beats', a mother fightening for her
                            children is her right ... poor thing - child support exempt ...

                            luv u all
                            Last edited by pokeman; 11-03-2014, 11:17 PM. Reason: what can i say, engineer and cant spell

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Pokeman,

                              If you are so unhappy with this site, then why continue to post.

                              I don't see the world through the same lens as you. I believe the system is far from perfect, but so are many things. From what I learned here, I avoided court. And I found friends and support when things were darkest.

                              There are other places on the net that share your view. You are entitled to have it, and we are entitled to comment on it. Your choice.

                              Comment

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