Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Retraining costs

Collapse
This topic is closed.
X
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Retraining costs

    My ex quit her $75,000 a year job in favour of a $20,000 a year part-time job. I'm unemployed (on EI) and going through retraining for the next 12 to 18 months.

    Can I ask my ex for help in paying for the retraining costs or even spousal support until retraining is done, when it seems likely that she will have primary residence of our joint custody child ?

  • #2
    Lol,

    How about OSAP. It's your education.

    Comment


    • #3
      hmm you want her to pay you SS when she is the one looking after your child and with you on EI your CS is probably next to nil?? Whyshe would quit such a nice paying job I do not understand but by you asking from money from her, that is taking money away from the support of your child.

      My husbands friend had his retraining paid for by EI.

      Comment


      • #4
        My ex quitting her job was purely strategic, so a judge would ask the same question you asked and she would get out of paying SS.

        Had I quit my job and intentionally became under employed, I would have been penalized by the court and had my income imputed.

        I couldn't get my retraining paid by EI due to recent cancellation of such programs, due to significant increase in the numbers of unemployed people in Ontario (almost doubled in the last 2 years) and lack of government resources.

        OSAP will only consider helping out full time students in certain programs. My part-time study program is not one of them.

        In earlier settlement offer letters, I offered shared parenting, where I would take care of our daughter during my ex's work hours, until I finish my retraining and get a job, but she refused and after mat leave didn't go back to her high paying job.

        I do believe, however, that she didn't compeltely quit her job. According to empoyment laws, your employer is required to hold on the new mother's position a year after mat leave, in case she decided to take an unpaid year off after mat leave.

        In a year's time, after she gets what she wants in court, she will quietly go back to her $75,000 a year job.

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by standing on the sidelines View Post
          hmm you want her to pay you SS when she is the one looking after your child and with you on EI your CS is probably next to nil??
          I paid SS when I had the kids and my ex was on disability insurance from her job. She paid a pittance in CS due to her low income. Net effect was that I was giving her $700/mth.

          Comment


          • #6
            You can still have an income imputed to her if she is intentionally underemployed. And you s/b arguing for more parenting time, not just accepting her refusal.

            Comment


            • #7
              My application:

              Custody: Joint with primary residence with the ex

              Access: ex will leave our child with me during her work hours (3days a week) + visitation on alternate weekends. (Saving her having to pay daycare expenses)

              Child Support: 1 year moratorium on Child Support until my retraining is over, and I'm able to get a decent job. (or $195/mo based on EI benefits)

              Spousal Support: $75,000 (imputed ex income) - $23,000 (my EI benefits) = $52,000 x 40% = $20800 or $1730 gross per month.

              I have yet to file it. Please let me know what you guys/gals think ?

              Comment


              • #8
                I think you're way out to lunch expecting to get $1730 in SS per month. As it is, you aren't far off from 45% of her NDI, so you won't get much.

                How long were you together?

                Comment


                • #9
                  We were together for 10 years.

                  How do you calculate NDI (Net Disposable Income) ?

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    I found this regarding NDI :
                    Family Law Toronto :: Family Law - Spousal Support :: www.familylawtoronto.com

                    WITH CHILD SUPPORT
                    The With Child Support formula is more complicated and some lawyers are critical of the illustrations provided in the Advisory Guidelines. Be that as it may, the formula is as follows:

                    (1) Determine the individual net disposable income (INDI) of each spouse:

                    * Guidelines Income minus Child Support minus Taxes and Deductions = Payor's INDI. Note that scheduled fee deductions do not include contributions to private pension plans or RRSPs whether or not such contributions are mandatory.

                    * Guidelines Income minus Notional Child Support minus Taxes and Deductions Plus Government Benefits and Credits = Recipient's INDI

                    (2) Add together the individual net disposable incomes. Determine the range of spousal support amounts that would be required to leave the lower income recipient spouse with between 40 and 46 percent of the combined INDI.

                    It is important to note that the range of support will be affected by the issues mentioned earlier (age, illness, etc.), in addition to the number of children, their ages and any special needs which demand consideration. A lower standard of living in the household where the children reside would probably push the support to the higher range. The length of the marriage will also be a factor although it will not determine the amount of support as in cases Without Child Support.

                    DURATION OF SPOUSAL SUPPORT IN CASES WITH CHILD SUPPORT
                    Spousal support determinations in cases With Child Support basically follow the model for longer marriages of more than 10 years. The formula is different for shorter marriages, which are basically defined as marriages where the period of time until the youngest child finishes high school is greater than the length of the marriage. In such cases, the support order would be indefinite subject to review; the date of review would be tied to the age of the children at the date of the initial order as follows:

                    a) If the youngest child is in preschool there would be a review no later than the month after the child begins full-time school; or
                    b) If the youngest child is under 12, then no later than the month after the child reaches age 12. The maximum duration for spousal support would be the date when the last or youngest child finishes high school. For shorter marriages the maximum duration for spousal support would be the date when the last child finishes high school.


                    OTHER FACTORS AFFECTING SPOUSAL SUPPORT CALCULATION
                    It should be noted that there is a ceiling on income of $350,000 above which the percentages can be reduced to generate a lower percentage on income shared at that level. There is also a floor of $20,000 below which no support would be payable.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Underdog View Post
                      Access: ex will leave our child with me during her work hours (3days a week) + visitation on alternate weekends. (Saving her having to pay daycare expenses)

                      Child Support: 1 year moratorium on Child Support until my retraining is over, and I'm able to get a decent job. (or $195/mo based on EI benefits)
                      That parenting schedule sounds like it's closing in on the 60/40 rule and you s/b doing an offset on CS.

                      Your NDI calculation is flawed as it doesn't take into a/c taxes, CS and other stuff.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        hmmm.... I read about this a bit...

                        ONdad - So you're saying that because I don't have primary residence that the proper calculation will be as follows:

                        $75,000 - withheld income tax, CPP EI and other (estimated around 30% of gross = $52,500 - CS (Lets say $195 per month) or $2340 = $50160

                        $50160 x 45% = $22,572 ... That's the target my income should equal to ?

                        If that is true, then at $18,960 in after tax EI... I will get $3,700 0r $300/mo.

                        $50,160 - 18960 = $31200 x 45% = $14040 or $1170/mo makes more sense from an equalization point of you...

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          You are correct dadtotheend... It stands at 36/64. (60 hours a week)

                          and yes my NDI was off...

                          Should I go for Shared parenting then ? (Is there a primary residence in shared parenting) ?

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Don't go for shared parenting for financial reasons, you will get your ass kicked. Shared parenting should be based soley on providing stable, positive parenting for the child. If there are reasons why you should be shared parenting, make a list of them, but leave the dollar signs out of it.

                            Your situation IMHO is too complicated for a simple do-it-yourself solution. Your ex is absolutely underemployed, but what income should be imputed is up in the air, it is not up to you, it will be up to the courts.

                            You can make a offer but if you ask for the moon and stars she's going to give you the finger instead. Don't just send her a shopping list of what works for you, what you should do is offer to collaborate on a plan that works for you, her and the children. Don't even mention numbers, but try to get her to open up to possibilities and you should too.

                            The idea of you providing child care is fine while retraining, but it is not a long term solution, you will be working eventually. Why did she quit her job? She has to open up about that and be open about what her plans are so that the two of you can make plans for the future. It is in everyone's best interest if both of you can work in stable jobs with decent incomes and benefits. That's a no brainer. Neither of you are there at this point. How do you both get there?

                            I'm not saying to drop the idea of spousal support entirely, but don't build your case around it. She is no longer working for $75k. Here it the thing, if you are going to court, then calculate according to the guidelines and the letter of the law. If you are staying out of court, then you have to losen up.

                            Keep in mind your possible negotiation paths. You can collaborate which means working together to make plans and execute them to build a better situation for everyone. That can mean investing money in education and retraining. What money is there?

                            You can compromise, and while you don't agree with each other or work together, you can not fight about it and split the difference.

                            Or you can be competitive about it and go for the best deal you possibly can, and to hell with her. The first two require her co-operation. The last one doesn't. You might be forced there, but I don't suggest it as a starting point.

                            And in all of that you have to keep in mind what is best for your child. Pushing her into bankruptcy isn't helping your child, but neither is you giving up everything.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Thank you Mess,

                              So you are saying that I should leave my requests for orders in section A of the application on a higher level... More general in nature.

                              Child Support - Order to offset Child support payment based on both Applicant and Respondent's court decided incomes - due to 40/60 access.

                              Support Payments - Order to equalize income based on court decided Applicant and Respondent incomes.

                              ....etc. And hash out the details in Case Conferences....

                              unfortunately, the out of court option is moot due to ex rejections of all my settlement offers or requests for dialogue.

                              Comment

                              Our Divorce Forums
                              Forums dedicated to helping people all across Canada get through the separation and divorce process, with discussions about legal issues, parenting issues, financial issues and more.
                              Working...
                              X