Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Need opinions on reopen divorce agreement

Collapse
This topic is closed.
X
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Need opinions on reopen divorce agreement

    Here is the background. Been divorced approx 6yrs. Have 2 children. Divorce was all agreed to and signed off with joint shared custody(50/50) and parents sharing equally in costs for the kids. No spousal or child support pmts. Verbal agreement with eachother that I would pay sports and dance costs at 100% and other costs were at a 60/40 split. Kids live at each home 1 week on 1 week off but spend bit more time at my place as younger son 14 eats breakfeast everyday including days he is at his moms at our place and gets driven to school on those days by myself.

    Move forward 6yrs and as kids get older there are some other costs coming into play and I have asked whether she will contribute. Cell phones for kids, drivers ed classes and insurance and University is coming for the oldest in a year. I have paid daughters phone bill at 100% for the last yr as a courtesy. I get a response that she will try and pay for some school trips at 30% of the cost but will not contribute to cell, university and other costs as she cant afford to and these are not necessities. Then she says she can go to court and ask for new child support as our wages have changed over the yrs.

    Question is can she go to court and will a judge look at this since for 6yrs it has worked and now this agruement?

  • #2
    You can always reopen child support if income levels change.

    She will have a hard time going after you for back child support, close to impossible but I don't want to promise that. In this case, she never brought it up, even though she would have known income levels were changing.

    You had a valid arrangement and you have the right to some expectation that things were settled. She can't just open the agreement out of the blue, she has to show not just a change in circumstance, but that the change was not anticipated when the deal was signed. No one could claim that they never expected income levels to change at all.

    Because you have the kids 50/50 with some weight on your end (breakfast thing) then if you had to pay a lump sum to her this would adversely affect the kids when they are at your house.

    All that said, she can make her arguments and judge's have a lot of discretion and it depends on how far apart your incomes are. You have been paying more towards expenses so you are carrying some more weight there.

    Also, hopefully you know that child support would be calculated by how much you would pay at your income, subtract how much she would pay at her income. The expenses are usually split according to proportion so if you earn 60k and she earns 40k, then 60/40 is exactly right.

    Both of you should be paying for ordinary expenses 50/50, special expenses should be split proportionate to income, in no circumstance does she not pay for something because she thinks she can't afford it.

    The exception might be something like you want to suddenly sign them up for something that is 1) expensive 2) they had never participated when the family was together 3) it is not typical at your income level. Like for example lessons to fly a helicoptor or something.

    The kids have a right to recreational expenses, these would be "ordinary" like karate class or piano lessons. It varies according to income level, what is reasonable to you might be extraordinary to me. But if it is characterized as "ordinary" then you split it 50/50 or she pays one and you pay the other, if it is "extraordinary" (section 7) then it is split proportionate to income.

    It is understood that "ordinary" comes out of regular child support. In your case, child support isn't paid, or look another way, you are paying each other. So "ordinary" comes out of your budgets without complaint.

    University, the courts would say the child pays a third, she pays a third, and you pay a third. She has to pay. A lot of parents don't like this, because not all parents would pay for university if the family was together, but that is how the courts work it with divorced parents, she has to accept it.

    The cell phones she should accept as normal in this day and age. If I were you I would total stuff like this up, that she is not contributing to, and come up with a total of what extras you are paying that she is refusing or taking advantage of (like breakfast). These added expenses (try to keep, say 6 months of receipts before you confront her or see a lawyer) should be to your credit if she seeks any Child Support.

    I hope this helps make it clear, you are in the clear if your incomes are close but if you earn a lot more you might end up paying some CS.

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by Mess View Post
      You can always reopen child support if income levels change.

      She will have a hard time going after you for back child support, close to impossible but I don't want to promise that. In this case, she never brought it up, even though she would have known income levels were changing.

      You had a valid arrangement and you have the right to some expectation that things were settled. She can't just open the agreement out of the blue, she has to show not just a change in circumstance, but that the change was not anticipated when the deal was signed. No one could claim that they never expected income levels to change at all.

      Because you have the kids 50/50 with some weight on your end (breakfast thing) then if you had to pay a lump sum to her this would adversely affect the kids when they are at your house.

      All that said, she can make her arguments and judge's have a lot of discretion and it depends on how far apart your incomes are. You have been paying more towards expenses so you are carrying some more weight there.

      Also, hopefully you know that child support would be calculated by how much you would pay at your income, subtract how much she would pay at her income. The expenses are usually split according to proportion so if you earn 60k and she earns 40k, then 60/40 is exactly right.

      Both of you should be paying for ordinary expenses 50/50, special expenses should be split proportionate to income, in no circumstance does she not pay for something because she thinks she can't afford it.

      The exception might be something like you want to suddenly sign them up for something that is 1) expensive 2) they had never participated when the family was together 3) it is not typical at your income level. Like for example lessons to fly a helicoptor or something.

      The kids have a right to recreational expenses, these would be "ordinary" like karate class or piano lessons. It varies according to income level, what is reasonable to you might be extraordinary to me. But if it is characterized as "ordinary" then you split it 50/50 or she pays one and you pay the other, if it is "extraordinary" (section 7) then it is split proportionate to income.

      It is understood that "ordinary" comes out of regular child support. In your case, child support isn't paid, or look another way, you are paying each other. So "ordinary" comes out of your budgets without complaint.

      University, the courts would say the child pays a third, she pays a third, and you pay a third. She has to pay. A lot of parents don't like this, because not all parents would pay for university if the family was together, but that is how the courts work it with divorced parents, she has to accept it.

      The cell phones she should accept as normal in this day and age. If I were you I would total stuff like this up, that she is not contributing to, and come up with a total of what extras you are paying that she is refusing or taking advantage of (like breakfast). These added expenses (try to keep, say 6 months of receipts before you confront her or see a lawyer) should be to your credit if she seeks any Child Support.

      I hope this helps make it clear, you are in the clear if your incomes are close but if you earn a lot more you might end up paying some CS.
      Thanx for the reply.
      Things were settled 6yrs ago and all was mutually agreed upon and satisfied the judge to sign off on everything. Of course wages change. In 6 yrs I have received regular pay increases and so has she. I am guess that we are prob $30k apart in wages me being a higher earner which is probably close to the same split when we divorced. This is why we made a verbal agreement on 60/40 and that I would pay 100% of the sports activities for the kids.
      She is not the best with her $ and gets alot of $ support from her mother. Regardless of this,,, all I ask is that she contribute to some of this extra stuff coming into play now (car insur, drivers,ed, cell phones,high school uniforms and registration, school trips and post secondary education) Her offer was 30% of school trips but cells, driving school and university are not a necessity. That one irks me. She has made no mention of back support. I can show countless events when she had the kids that I did all the extras for them,(driving daughter and picking up daily for school co-op when it was her mothers to deal with and list can go on)
      I dont think she really wants to go to court as its a money issue going there and her commonlaw spouse has kids from previous and has been in a ugly battle for yrs costing alot of $$ and she has had it good with our arrangement up until her not wanting or claiming she cannot and will not contribute.
      It is frustrating when you have a good agreement that seemed to work and after 6yrs,,,, if there are financial reasons why she cant pay or bad money management etc,,, its not my problem anymore. I am very willing to take care of my kids and more,,,, I just want her to contribute something to the other costs that are approaching.

      Or the other way I look at it if it is based on the income thing is there is probably a $300 gap based on the formula and we just continue as we are and anything over and above approx $3k per yr, her share she must ante up!??

      Comment


      • #4
        Do it this way. Use the Child Support Calculator, use your gross incomes from line 150 on your tax returns and subtract hers from yours and see what you would pay.

        Then figure out what it costs you on average per month for cell phones, transportation, breakfasts and everything else you pay that she doesn't. How far ahead are you.

        Now ask yourself, "Have I got a good deal here?" This for two reasons, this question. First, how badly do you want to raise a fuss? Secondly, this is the deal a judge would look at too. If you are paying significantly more in expenses, then a judge isn't going to penalize you.

        Now, having answered this question for yourself, write this out to your ex as a proposal. Explain that your existing deal would be supported by the courts since there has been no unforseen change in circumstance, you have been covering more than your share of expenses and she would not see any payment of Child Support *(assuming this true according to your math.) Explain that you don't want things to become acrimonious after all these years, but she now expecting a far better deal if she is expecting you to pay for university on top of that.

        You are politely asking her to rework the expenses more equitably on the basis of maintaining good relations. Good relations have to flow both ways. The children's situations are changing as they get older, and so are their expenses and if the family had stayed together you would be working out these costs together, and you are asking her to do that with you now.

        If she refuses, then you have to cost out how much it would be to get a lawyer involved, and if it's worth it. However you decide, you should start keeping track of all of these costs.

        How I do it, I set up a bank account specificly for the kids. I have a debit card, cheques, etc. Clothes, groceries, school trips, YMCA, everything goes through this account. At any time I can open a drawer and check how much I have spent on them the past year.

        If she's got it in her head that she can pressure you over Child Support, this may not be the last you hear of it.

        Comment

        Our Divorce Forums
        Forums dedicated to helping people all across Canada get through the separation and divorce process, with discussions about legal issues, parenting issues, financial issues and more.
        Working...
        X