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Has anyone separated without a lawyer?

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  • Has anyone separated without a lawyer?

    If so, how did it go? Did you find a separation agreement online and use that? Did you have a witness sign it? I found a free agreement online that looks pretty detailed and we are thinking of using that as our base for an agreement and then adding or deleting anything that does or does not apply.

    My soon to be ex and I are trying to do this without a lawyer. We seem to be in agreement with most things so far. We are *really* trying to keep this amicable for our children and we think it would be better to do it on our own.

    Thanks for any information.

  • #2
    Draw up your separation agreement. Each of you must then take it to a lawyer (not the same lawyer). For a marital agreement to have validity each party must have independent legal advice.
    Expect these lawyers to make trouble in order to make more money. Be firm.

    FN

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    • #3
      when my ex & I separated we didnt have an agreement.....when it really comes down to it what is it good for.....sometimes not worth paper it is wrote on (as far as joint debts concerned- I know this one first hand- he/she defaults bank will say not their concern and you have to recoup your loss in civil courts)......ex & I waited our calendar year filed for amicable divorce and granted within 90 days......no lawyer ever commissioned

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      • #4
        Me again. I am in the Province of Ontario so I was reading the document provided for residents of Ontario about Family Law (from the Attorney General):
        Ministry of the Attorney General - What You Should Know about Family Law in Ontario

        I have read this part over and over about Separation and Settling Issues:

        You will need to arrange which one of you will stay in your home, who will pay family debts, how much support will be paid, how you will divide your property, and who will take care of your children.

        You can resolve things in different ways.

        1.You can have an informal arrangement, which can be verbal or in writing.

        2.You can agree on things and write down your decisions in a separation agreement. A separation agreement must be signed by both of you in front of a witness for it to be legal. The witness must sign the agreement too.

        3.You can use a mediator or an arbitrator.

        4.You can use collaborative family law. (If you are interested in pursuing this option, you must contact a lawyer.)

        5.You can go to court and ask the court to decide.

        It is always better if the two of you can agree on how to settle the issues between you. Court proceedings can be very expensive and take a long time. If you and your spouse cannot come to an agreement, a mediator may be able to help you to talk to each other and reach an agreement. A lawyer can also help you to work things out, but remember that the same lawyer cannot help both of you.

        Signing a separation agreement is a very important step. Your decisions now can affect you and your children for the rest of your lives. If one of you decides you don’t like the agreement, you can try to negotiate a new agreement. If you cannot agree you
        have to go to court and ask a judge to change it. A separation agreement is a contract that you must honour. You should speak to a lawyer to make sure you know all of the legal consequences of your decisions.


        I think my husband and I really want to focus on choice # 1 and #2. We seem to be in agreement on the terms of our separation agreement and child support. It seems to me that we don't need a lawyer but some of you have said that we still do. Can you explain why? I am not being rude, I am just really confused. We really can't afford a lawyer and don't qualify for legal aid. My husband is pretty adamant that we don't hire lawyers. I tend to agree because I am afraid that if we go to court there will be huge fees AND he will get screwed (sorry for the term). Even though this separation is his choice, I don't want to see him get hurt financially.

        Thanks (again).

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        • #5
          Not all lawyers are out to get your money. Look for one that focuses or is trained in mediation. Your seperation agreement is a legal document with such huge implications that a one hour consultation ( the first half hour is free ) will be worth the money.

          Do not let yourself be bullied into giving up your or your children's rights for the sake of a few hundred dollars. When your husband choose to end the marriage he knew there were unfortunate financial consequences but minimizing the costs does not include blindly signing legal documents without an unbiased outsider reviewing them.

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          • #6
            Please have a lawyer look over the agreement before you sign. You both need to do that independantly. It is worth the money. Years down the road things might not be so amicable and if either of you decides that the agreement is not fair then you may end up in court.

            A separation agreement needs to be reviewed by a lawyer for each of you if a judge it going to uphold it in court. Even if you agree now, he may claim he was under pressure to sign. Beleive me, I've had several verbal agreements with my ex and he has gone back on every single one of them. He is even now claiming I haven't been paying CS, when I have been paying since day one.

            Protect yourself now and have a lawyer review it.

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            • #7
              You have all given such great advice. I spoke with my husband last night and he is adamant that we do not use lawyers. He gets very defensive whenever I mention it. This will NOT remain amicable if I go to a lawyer.

              I hear what you are all saying and I worry about exactly what Billiechic said that years down the road, it may not be amicable.

              I really feel like my hands are tied though. If I insist on lawyers, he will hold it against me forever. I also think if he hires a lawyer then his lawyer will say my husband is being too generous to me (paying off some debts etc). If we don't go to a lawyer then he will help me pay off our debts in full AND I will get a decent amount of CS on top of it.

              I don't know what to do.

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              • #8
                Hi Bluejay.

                I would say that you need a separation agreement no matter what, but you could do it yourselves without lawyers.

                The difference is, it would not be binding if one of you decided to sue the other later on.

                You protect yourselves by sticking to the accepted format and covering all of the necessary points. At Staples there is usually a book and cd on separation and divorce on the rack, I see it every day, I'm sure you can get it many stores.

                You need to make lists of your belongings and assets and exchange copies of your bank statements and income tax returns for several years at least. Include things like RRSPS and insurance policies. Years later if it appeared in any way that one of you was hiding financial information from the other, this would be excellent grounds for opening up the issues in court.

                Don't rely on anything verbal between you, type it all out in the format used in the books and both sign it. In 6 months the two of you could disagree on what you remember agreeing to with the kid's schedule or anything else. Put it on paper and sign it. It is not binding, but if one of you changes your mind, the other has ethical reason to then go to lawyers.

                Things could break down in a year, and then what? Have all of the family statements and assets listed now, so you don't have to spend months tracking down copies a year after you've moved.

                I would say to you personally that what you describe raises my eyebrows. You are agreeing to lawyers because otherwise he won't stay amicable, it is his pressure that you are doing it this way. This is coersive and maybe duress. You are certainly being pressured. That said, if you are both agreeable on what is reasonable then it is probably for the best to have a private settlement.

                You must make sure you and the children are protected, and that you have something to carry you forward into indepenance in life. Do you already have job skills? How long were you married? Did you work? How much does your husband earn and how much support is he paying? What is your schedule for access with the children? What will happen if your husband remarries and wants to stop paying so much support? These are questions you must think about. Things may look fine now, but they can change drasticly in two or three years.

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