Court order procedure and monthly budget?

[pearl4]

I have a court order in and did the MIP. My lawyer suggested I put it in as he has threatened to cancel benefits and he said no judge will refuse me. He is also not showing all of the information he should an this is in there as well. Will I have to go to court or a pre court or if he does the things we are asking what happens? They said there was no court date yet and we can always pull out? I'm wondering about the monthly budget as well as I did an updated one when I put this in but how does it work as things always change from month to month. He is going for support as well.

Thank you.

[arabian]

I assume your lawyer has filed an Interim Interim Order. What does it say on the front of the document? A Notice of Motion ?

A monthly budget is an "average" of your income and expenses over a period of a month. These things are rarely exact.

[pearl4]

Good to hear from you. You are the expert It's an application with no court date yet and has 30 days to respond once served which should be very soon. Said we can then proceed with scheduling a case conference or bringing emergency motions as may be necessary, if he cuts benefits, and restraining order as well. So case conference? what to expect and next?

I did up my monthly expenses by taking the last 10 months and did an average. I had been spending quite a bit then and now want to put money aside for gifts for kids/trips etc because when they come up I have had to budget them in that month which is a lot harder. So I will have to do another budget? It varies from month to month and there are areas you can cut back but I wanted to try and save some money for first and last months rent as well, expenses that come up unexpectently, emergency fund, etc., and as well as the other expenses I had mentioned. I have started to put some away for retirement monthly, but have just been going over bills and I have not been paying taxes since last April but put away some for them but not enough. I want to catch up on this by putting extra away in the month. I was advised if I was to sell the house if I paid the taxes I wouldn't get that out of him. I want to be prepared if I have to.

Is the budget looked at mainly for spousal?

Thank you.

[arabian]

I'm no expert. I've just been through the wringer with an ex who let his g/f run the show - still does. Keep precise records as you never know in the future when you will have to go back over everything.

Budget is very, very important as it sets the stage for what's to come in the future. Once your house sells there may or may not be an adjustment - that will depend upon what you can hopefully negotiate. If not then it comes down to a judge's discretion. Judges discretion can be a good or a bad thing - kind of like throwing the dice.

You should honestly list what your normal expenses on a monthly basis. So you don't get too overwhelmed I'd recommend putting things in categories. Personal - hair, nails, clothing (I had a difficult time with this as I have never been much of a shopper unless for golf stuff. Problem was that one does have to buy clothing, shoes, coats from time to time). In another pile you can label it as health. This would include prescriptions, chiropractor, prescription glasses,etc. I would think this is important as I recall in a previous post you indicated that you had high medication cost. It wouldn't hurt to have your pharmacist give you the cost of your meds if you were to pay for them without a health plan coverage. Food - if you entertain family frequently, make sure you put in the cost. Gifts would be a category, particularly for children and grand children. Charitable donations. Entertainment can include taking your kids to a show, personal sports, etc. Travel. Vehicle maintenance and insurance. Taxes and debt. You will soon prepare your income tax return and will know what your position is with CRA.

After you have compiled all the separate piles you will probably be a tad overwhelmed. This is normal. Remember it is better at this point to overestimate rather than underestimate. It can be difficult to go back to court to get more money 12 months from now and convince a judge that you can't live on the budget you previously submitted. You then calculate the taxes that you estimate you will have to pay.

I would recommend that you keep the down payment and moving expenses for your new place separate from your personal budget.

Yes the budget is an integral part of the start of your negotiations for spousal support.

Always remember that it is a really good idea to read up as much as you can about spousal support. For your reading pleasure I will attach a recent decision that was just decided this month. Long term divorce (26 years) of two wealthy, successful doctors. Yes the wife, who is a successful OBGYN, was most definitely awarded spousal support. What I wouldn't like to be receiving her monthly cheque! And yes she would have had to have put together a budget at some point during her litigation. In this case the budget would have been for her medical practice.

https://www.canlii.org/en/pe/pesctd/...2015pesc1.html

[nfc4ever]

From where I'm sitting I don't think that the courts give a rat's behind about a payors budget. Based on my limited experience so far, income is the only thing that they care about for a payor.

I work in corporate planning, so I can pull off a fairly accurate financial overview.

What I do is annualize all of the non-monthly expenses and spread them out over 12 months:
- i.e. the 1 off expenses are added up and split them out over 12 months.
- anything that is biweekly like a mortgage or car payment should be multiplied by 26 and divided by 12.
- be aware of expense contracts that renew mid year, and have that factored in as well (condo fees, car insurance)

Keep backups for all of your numbers. I just had huge year over year increases for electricity and home insurance.

[arabian]

The payor's income/ability to pay are certainly taken into consideration when determining spousal support. I agree. However, the first steps in negotiating spousal support (for people coming out of a long-term marriage) is to carefully establish the standard of living of both the payor and the payee. The court does, indeed, consider a budget at many steps of litigation in family law - at the time of initiating a claim for interim spousal support as well as at the time the divorce/separation agreement is reviewed. A budget can also be referred to when there is a motion raised for a material change of circumstances. A budget is am important tool. Hopefully, with the use of budgets, both parties can come to their senses and see that there is only so much money to go around and settle the matter without having to go to court. A budget can also help the two parties decide if a lump-sum payment in lieu of ongoing spousal support payments is preferable, particularly if the payor is nearing retirement or in the cases where there is high surplus income floating around.

Of course spousal support is 100% taxable for the recipient and likewise tax deductible for the payor - this factor is also considered during negotiations a/or at the time of trial.

[nfc4ever]

@Arabian - my case only involves CS, so I hadn't considered SS when writing up my reply.

[pearl4]

According to the numbers, but and help with budget?

According to the numbers if you punch them in the x would be right, but my lawyer said he is only showing a financial need of 10,000, which he said isn't much of a need, he is only 54,(retired at 50) has a business which he is just doing very little right now, about what he was doing before, but know he can do more than he is as I'm sure he's waiting to find out about the spousal. Lawyer said we all know when you have a business you can make money and not show it, and it shows he is capable of working and he wants his disabled wife to pay him support until 65? I have a private disability but no pension after 65. He has benefits, I will have none. They gross up my tax free disability so I make about double him. My lawyer feels to let the judge decide. So when I did my monthly for the application I did it over the 10 months, but like i said I was spending a lot then, but I would like to do some savings for rent, furniture, things that may come up. I feel like I need to go out and keep up to the spending I was doing, but there was also a trip in there so it increased me by a lot too. Thx for your help Also my lawyer said at 65 because I have no pension I would have to turn around and go after him. Thx for your help