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  • Child Support for post secondary education

    I have a child attending school away from home and is staying in residence. I asked the father to pay half of the expenses for the school even though he has a corporation and his combined income is roughly $290000 compared to my $35000 income.
    He has refused to pay and didn't offer anything till lately as the court date is approaching.
    He only offered to pay 52% of school expenses, terminate all CS for this child and pay CS based on his personal income $87000 for the younger child.
    He has never paid the proper CS amount, and he is only paying based on a $54000 and has been for the last 12 years.
    Also, he has never paid any extra expenses at all.
    In his court papers, he claim he doesn't own much, only half of a $200000 house even though we know it's worth over $700000, another house worth over $350000 sold to his corporation by him plus countless other trucks and vehicles. He also claims his lifestyle is augmented by his spouse's income of $90000 even though her income amounts on his tax returns that show she makes $78000.
    I'm in the process of having his corporation evaluated for a more accurate income.
    We have our first court date shortly, is there anything I should know? Is there anything I should ask my lawyer or what can I expect for an outcome?

  • #2
    First thing that comes to mind is - why did you not pursue his underpayment for 12 years?

    Comment


    • #3
      Child Support for post secondary education

      Has he been providing disclosure each year via taxes? Thats number one. Depending on what his actual income is, you could attempt to get the past three years updated and paid. Has he given permission for extracurricular activities? Is yes, you can claim his % of that. Are the other expenses medical and has he not paid? You can submit a request for his portion of that.

      As for school, you may have a claim for a portion of the cs while kid is away but that would depend on the judge you get. He is required to pay his % of expenses including tuition, residence, books, fees, equipment etc. but his % will be on 2/3 of the expense. Kid is responsible for 1/3 and that can be covered via scholarships, bursaries, awards, RESP grant money and/or OSAP and loans.

      You might want to do the calculations yourself. If you have his taxes for the last three years, figure out the table amount and compare what he was paying to what he should be paying. Then figure out the % for each year and his share of the expenses from that calculation. Then take all the post secondary expenses, figure out 2/3 of the expense and then his %.

      All of this is a reasonable offer. Whether or not he has five houses, twelve cars and a plane makes no difference. His income is what matters and if you can prove hes hiding money he will be skewered.

      Im not an expert on the accounting aspect of company shares and costs etc. might want to have that investigated.

      ETA: youll be hard pressed to get 52% of the total. There is usually a "reasonable contribution from the child". But definitely get full financial disclosure. Hopefully your lawyer is a barracuda with non disclosure of true income.
      Last edited by rockscan; 02-08-2015, 12:21 PM.

      Comment


      • #4
        Incorrect answers are regularly given to your question re: calculation of post secondary on this site. My ex and I do not follow any sort of fractional share calculation [we have a general rule we have agreed to for shares], and most certainly our respective general lifestyles and assets were taken into consideration during our determinations.

        The best answer on ps calculations has been provided by OrleansLawyer, here at this link:

        http://www.ottawadivorce.com/forum/f...tml#post190558
        Start a discussion, not a fire. Post with kindness.

        Comment


        • #5
          Ask your lawyer about what a perceived "windfall" is. If you are looking at requesting an adjustment for the past 12 years of underpayment, judge typically asks why it took you so long to have things adjusted. Your lawyer would be aware there is plenty of case law regarding this.

          Corporate structure (his ability to determine his own income and direction of business), retained earnings and other things are taken into consideration.

          Here is a case where retained earnings were adjusted:

          https://www.canlii.org/en/on/onsc/do...&resultIndex=6

          There are many cases on CanLii
          Last edited by arabian; 02-08-2015, 12:38 PM. Reason: addition of an example from canlii

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by arabian View Post
            First thing that comes to mind is - why did you not pursue his underpayment for 12 years?
            A few reasons.
            I knew it would cause arguments and fighting between us and didn't want to include the kids in all this.
            I didn't really have the financial needs and I didn't really know that his income and changed drastically till about a year ago.
            I only went to see a lawyer when he refused to help with additional expenses for school, I figured he would have stepped up to the plate and at least covered 50% of the expenses.
            I also thought if I kept things "good" he would have offered to help for school expenses.
            At this point he has refused every offer and till least week had never expressed his position on CS and expenses. This has been going on since June 1st, I am getting nowhere, it is costing me a small fortune in fees and he still hasn't altered is payments.

            Comment


            • #7
              $35k with 2 children. Are you sure you would not be entitled to legal aid?

              Comment


              • #8
                As you read through the Canlii case I provided, you will see that the judge examines if there is or isn't a "blameworthy cause" for non-disclosure of financial information. This will likely be integral to your claim for retroactive CS and you should speak to your lawyer about this and ascertain that you have substantive evidence to prove that he purposely did not provide you with full financial disclosure or if he misled you. Hopefully your lawyer has sent a Formal Offer to Settle so that you can request costs be awarded to you.

                IF you requested full financial disclosure (and can prove it) and he did not comply then that is serious. IF you requested full financial disclosure and he provided misleading financial information (and you can prove it) then that would be, in my humble opinion, quite important.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by rockscan View Post
                  Has he been providing disclosure each year via taxes? Thats number one. Depending on what his actual income is, you could attempt to get the past three years updated and paid. Has he given permission for extracurricular activities? Is yes, you can claim his % of that. Are the other expenses medical and has he not paid? You can submit a request for his portion of that.

                  As for school, you may have a claim for a portion of the cs while kid is away but that would depend on the judge you get. He is required to pay his % of expenses including tuition, residence, books, fees, equipment etc. but his % will be on 2/3 of the expense. Kid is responsible for 1/3 and that can be covered via scholarships, bursaries, awards, RESP grant money and/or OSAP and loans.

                  You might want to do the calculations yourself. If you have his taxes for the last three years, figure out the table amount and compare what he was paying to what he should be paying. Then figure out the % for each year and his share of the expenses from that calculation. Then take all the post secondary expenses, figure out 2/3 of the expense and then his %.

                  All of this is a reasonable offer. Whether or not he has five houses, twelve cars and a plane makes no difference. His income is what matters and if you can prove hes hiding money he will be skewered.

                  Im not an expert on the accounting aspect of company shares and costs etc. might want to have that investigated.

                  ETA: youll be hard pressed to get 52% of the total. There is usually a "reasonable contribution from the child". But definitely get full financial disclosure. Hopefully your lawyer is a barracuda with non disclosure of true income.
                  No he hasn't but I never asked for them either. I know the law says he's supposed to disclose every year especially if income amounts change drastically.
                  We are trying retroactive pay for the average income in the last three years.
                  Extras were activities, expensive activities but I don't mind that, I paid them myself. No I have no receipts and never asked permission cause I paid %100 and didn't plan on getting him to help pay.
                  3 year average, personal & corporate income over $275000, CS roughly $3450 a month even though he pays $800.
                  I think he is trying to hide income or assets, he disclosed on the court papers he only owned half of a $200K house, a motorcycle and a $50 car and only had an income of $87500 even though his combined 3 year average is over$275K.
                  I am having his company audited to find out how much money it really makes and to see if he's paying his wife a salary and to see what other expenses he has. Lets just say the net income of the corporation is only 10% of the total revenues.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by arabian View Post
                    Ask your lawyer about what a perceived "windfall" is. If you are looking at requesting an adjustment for the past 12 years of underpayment, judge typically asks why it took you so long to have things adjusted. Your lawyer would be aware there is plenty of case law regarding this.

                    Corporate structure (his ability to determine his own income and direction of business), retained earnings and other things are taken into consideration.

                    Here is a case where retained earnings were adjusted:

                    https://www.canlii.org/en/on/onsc/do...&resultIndex=6

                    There are many cases on CanLii
                    I am not expecting or requesting adjustment for the last 12 years. I asked for 3 and not even expecting that much.
                    What I want is adjustment going forward from June 2014 when I went to see my lawyer and asked for the revised amount.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Beachnana View Post
                      $35k with 2 children. Are you sure you would not be entitled to legal aid?
                      I also have a partner, I don't think I qualify for legal aid.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Good for you (your children) that you are having his company audited. Too often people simply accept the old line 150 for determining income support when they should instead request corporation financial records.

                        If you don't ask you don't get.

                        How did you manage to get the go-head for company audit? Did you hire an independent accounting firm?

                        Very interesting.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by arabian View Post
                          As you read through the Canlii case I provided, you will see that the judge examines if there is or isn't a "blameworthy cause" for non-disclosure of financial information. This will likely be integral to your claim for retroactive CS and you should speak to your lawyer about this and ascertain that you have substantive evidence to prove that he purposely did not provide you with full financial disclosure or if he misled you. Hopefully your lawyer has sent a Formal Offer to Settle so that you can request costs be awarded to you.

                          IF you requested full financial disclosure (and can prove it) and he did not comply then that is serious. IF you requested full financial disclosure and he provided misleading financial information (and you can prove it) then that would be, in my humble opinion, quite important.
                          We have letters going back till June, asking for his personal income tax papers, then when we noticed he was sole proprietor of a corporation asked for the tax papers for the corporation. He only provided a T1 form for 3years and no other relevant information. I don't think he provided misleading information but he didn't provide everything necessary to calculate his real income.
                          What is misleading is the papers he has had to provide for court he states that he only makes $87000 and that his lifestyle is augmented by his partner's $90000 salary even though the T1 form states that her income is $78000. He also states the he owns half of a $200K house even though the house is worth over $700K. It's obvious his measly $87000 salary can't pay for his lifestyle.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            I believe you can only expect retroactive from when you requested a change in CS amount or disclosure. Since you did neither, it's unlikely you would get three years worth, however moving forward should be based on his current income.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Wonderinghow View Post
                              I also have a partner, I don't think I qualify for legal aid.
                              Even without a partner you would not qualify.

                              Comment

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