reducing income - yes, on purpose

[Alexp]

Looking for a bit of advice/comments before I get a lawyer involved in the matter.

Been divorced since 2005, paying CS on 2 children. I've been making decent money and ex gets full table amount, no questions asked/no fuss. For work, I'm all over the place now have two issues that come come up.

1) I haven't seen my children in almost a full year, ex has become negligent in letting me chat with them via skype/etc., I'm looking to return back to somewhere near where the kids are so I can be more involved again.

2) My elderly father is getting quite ill... he had a brain injury in his early years and functions with very diminished brain capacity - he's into the "challeneged" category. three years ago had a hip replacement surgery and I had to move him into a home for several months for recovery. This weekend, he's ended up in the hospital for 3 vertebrae in his spine that have fractured and a broken hip. Moving back near home would also let me keep a close eye on him during recovery.

I've already a replacement job lined up, but it's only seasonal to start and a third the pay I get now. Alternatively, I also have enough saved in the bank where I make about $40k per year on interest and could live on that (really have no other expenses than CS)

I'd really not like to have to keep paying ex CS based on $150k/year income when I won't be making that - and especially since I'll be back in the kids lives on a very regular basis.

Anyone with some thoughts? Or experience in this matter? Is the court going to force me to work a) full time or b) to keep current job and therefore continue with a decreased quality of life for all that are involved? Do they show compassion in a case like this?

[Straittohell]

While it is unacceptable for your ex failing to connect you to your kids via Skype while simultaneously benefiting from the very income that you make from being out of town, the courts will unfortunately regard the issues of access and amount as separate.

I strongly suggest that you treat them as separate issues when you go to work this out with your ex, and I do indeed encourage you to try to work this out with your ex first.

If this gets to court, they would likely impute an income to you based on a three year average of your earnings, unless you could demonstrate a material change of circumstance that is considered valid. Caring for your elderly father might just be it, but it's a roll of the dice. You will unlikely get your kids for more than 40% of the time when you return, so you'll still be assessed at full table amount.

Unless, of course, you have a signed agreement with your ex that established 50/50, and you were only unable to exercise that because of your work, and she actually agreed to the temporary change.

Failing that, you're going to have to reach out to her, and reassure her that you are still committed to paying some kind of amount, but that it is going to need to change. You have to give enough time to prepare, if you have been giving her the full table amount based on $150K per year for two kids, she has likely been living quite well and is just as likely to be very dependent on that money.

Once you settle on an amount, you will want to negotiate an access schedule. Try not to focus on the fact that she pooched the skype calls for a year. People who behave poorly tend to react badly to having their poor behaviour pointed out to them.

[rockscan]

Not being in contact with your kids had nothing to do with support so separate that not. Especially if she refuses to agree to anything and theres a fight ahead of you. In many cases like this, the kids are used against the parent. Prepare yourself for that one.

STH is right. First step is to reach out. Figure out what your annual income will be with interest and job income and approach your ex with that total. If youre moving back to care for your ailing father she might be amenable to a change if its temporary. As for 50/50, you may have a fight because a) youll be open to paying offset support (wont be agreed to) and b) might question amount and quality of care if youre consumed with caring for an ill parent.

Like it was said--best to discuss first. Hopefully you both can be reasonable. Best interest of the kids is important.

Barring that, youll have to do the motion to change and possibly be subject to a judge imputing income at a rate higher than what youll be making.

*not a lawyer, not legal advice, just going through kids not speaking to dad because mom isnt happy with cs, income, s7 payments etc.*

[Alexp]

I should have added in my original post that a discussion with ex was already attempted - she's refused reasonable requests and is making it clear this will go to court.. she's even indicating she'll spare no expense to have my current income imputed going forward.

She does know that my current $150k/yr job is only a temporary thing and would last, at best 2 more years - annual income prior to this was only $60k. I'd really hope that a court wouldn't impute income based on a temporary position would they?

[Links17]

I should have added in my original post that a discussion with ex was already attempted - she's refused reasonable requests and is making it clear this will go to court.. she's even indicating she'll spare no expense to have my current income imputed going forward.

She does know that my current $150k/yr job is only a temporary thing and would last, at best 2 more years - annual income prior to this was only $60k. I'd really hope that a court wouldn't impute income based on a temporary position would they?

What a surprise... of course she won't agree to reduce it. It'll cost her how much in CS? Its a pure financial cost benefit - pay 10k to keep higher CS amount, no brainer!

Can you prove beyond a shadow of a doubt that your income would be 60k after this job, I don't think so.

A judge would/could argue that you (yes they argue against you) might be able to have secured a job at 60-80k or 90k or maybe even a 120k after this job.

If your current job only last 2 more years, then ride it out.

I am not sure about the caring for father issue... I haven't seen cases where that's been brought up succesfully.
-Perhaps if you could show there is no reasonable alternative?

[stripes]

Your desire to move back home to care for a sick parent seems very reasonable to me - this is different from reducing your income because you want to play video games all day or you've decided you don't like your co-workers. This is not uncommon in non-divorced families, where one parent has to reduce his/her earning in order to care for elderly dependents. Being closer to your kids can only be an added plus.

Have you suggested some sort of stepping-down of CS to your ex? Going from CS based on $150K to CS based on $40-60K could be a shock, but if you stepped it down gradually over time, she might be able to adapt to it (or earn more $$ herself). Your $150K job is disappearing in two years anyway, so she's looking at a dramatic reduction in CS no matter what - better to do it gradually. If you presented this as being less expensive for her than hiring a lawyer and going to court to keep your CS payments at an unsustainably high level.

This sounds like a situation where mediation might be useful, as an alternative to going to court.

[Alexp]

Thanks for everyone's insight.. @stripes - I haven't suggested a gradual step down to the ex - but will give it a try - she's a difficult person to deal with - either she gets 'more', or she's not happy (unfortunately she's turned this all into a situation of greed than anything else, lots of stories I could share, but are irrelevant to my particulars at present).

I'm just waiting now to hear from dad's doctor about surgeries & what we can expect for recoveries and will have to make some solid decisions there.. will end up running the idea past the lawyer to get his take on it all - I just hate seeing money to to lawyers, haven't really had much 'success' with one yet.

[Straittohell]

I can only imagine the stories you can share. Your ex gleefully raking in the extra money from your extra earnings, and using it to spoil the kids and try to buy their love, and then turning around and denying you basic access, and telling the kids that their daddy doesn't want to talk to them and doesn't love them. Her basically relegating you to the role of a chequebook, a walking piggybank, and devaluing anything else you want to contribute as a father.

An all too familiar story on this thread.

[movingON1975]

Her basically relegating you to the role of a chequebook, a walking piggybank, and devaluing anything else you want to contribute as a father.

An all too familiar story on this thread.

I prefer the - "Human ATM". Its a very common story. She loves your free money that she worked so hard to "earn", she isn't going to agree to anything but more, don't kid yourself. You could be on your death bed and she would have her hand out looking for money.



Quite frankly I don't know why more people don't go missing. Leaving the county on their own terms, etc

[Links17]

The best is when my 6 yo daughter tells me I don't even pay child support (the mom is unemployed and i pay her 2/3 (2300$) of my net income leaving me with 1.3k/mo) .... and then my kids call me cheap because I don't buy them stuff because I'm with them 39.9% of the time.

[Straittohell]

Links, I hope that you correct your daughter on that without going into the details.

Don't fool yourself into thinking that rising completely above it is the way to go. If your kid says that, you need to say:

"Yes, daddy, gives mommy a lot of money, but I'm not going to talk about how much, or tell you anything else, because I don't believe it is right that mommy is talking with you about this, this is something that adults should keep amongst adults."

[rockscan]

My partner is prepared for the sudden communications he expects close to christmas after being ignored for months. His response will be along the lines of "im not santa claus or an atm, i have feelings too." Being a good person, doing more than you can, and bending over backwards for a demanding ex has got him nowhere. Hes still the unemployed bum who contributed nothing to the marriage, destroyed all their lives, and stole all of moms money leaving them destitute. All too familiar refrain indeed.

[mcdreamy]

Divorced in 2005, your 2 children would be how old now? What custody or parenting time have you exercised the last 9 years? It seems a shame for your children that your only apparent interest in returning to the area at this time would be your elderly father's illness.

What is your priority at the moment - repairing your relationship with your children, or decreasing your cs payable? If your children are now teenagers, I could imagine they might be feeling a little negative.

With respect to calculation of cs, given your history I would suspect you could anticipate easily being imputed at a level no less than the equivalent to your last 3 years average, and certainly at a full time wage moving forward.

With respect to returning as an active parent to your children, I would suspect this is going to be a stressful time for your children, and perhaps you could consider some mutual counselling to help the reunion be a positive experience.

In your situation, I would most definitely recommend you seek a lawyer (or two!) before you make any decisions, and spend some research time of your own on Canlii.

I think you need to pick your priority and focus on that - whichever you choose, will govern your plans.

[Alexp]

mcdreamy - parenting time over the past few years has been good - but always had room for improvement - typically every other weekend - it dropped only since taking the much higher paying job that had me bouncing around the country, so I'm not expecting any problems returning as an 'active parent'.

clearly lots of discrepancy on imputed wage issues... it will be quite unfortunate if this is the case - as I would essentially be held to what I would consider 'slave labour' and have to neglect a elderly father who has a rapid decline in his health and continue to be away from the children.

Decreasing CS payments isn't the "priority" - but if I have to put my father into a long term care facility, a CS reduction will be necessary as I'll have the costs of that to further contend with, as well as a lower paying job. He has no income other than Old Age Security and no savings.

Hope that helps explain... but a return to being close to my father and the children is the priority.. then work, however I don't hold an education. It's rare to get opportunities like I did get get a higher paying job so I grabbed it knowing it was for short term. I'm really hoping that such a temporary situation isn't going to ruin quality of life for all involved now!

[arabian]

I have to say I really respect you Alex for looking after your father's needs.

You can prepare yourself for a possible deluge of attacks by looking into the following:

- If you are going to be paying for your father's move to long-term care facility, be sure to have your accountant check out the taxable implications for both you and your father.
- Be sure to have accurate, up-to-date medical information of your father's health to offer proof that he can no longer live alone etc.

Over the years there have been many government programs to encourage people to stay in their own homes and/or be cared for by family members. I'd make sure that you are an expert on all of the various programs (provincially as well as federally).

A point that could be raised is that if your father goes into a long-term care facility, with around-the-clock assistance, there is no reason for you to reduce your availability to work, etc.

Just be prepared for the onslaught of criticism.