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OCL Refuses to provide disclosure in writing!!!

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  • OCL Refuses to provide disclosure in writing!!!

    My boyfriend writes:

    In my case I have had child protective custody involved for over 8 months now. I thought I engaged them because I called the police on my ex because she routinely ran into my house and screamed at me in front of the kids. I gave her fir warning that she was to remain off of the property and she ignored it. As the police were talking to her she accused me of chlld abuse so CAS (child protective services in Canada) were engaged. They investigated and threw it out. In fact since taking my ex to court I have been accused of child abuse twice and other members of my family have been like wise accused as well as assault, neglect, etc.... All without reprisal.

    My lawyer after seeing how distraught I was at our first meeting - I cried like hell when he said he could help me - insisted that the Ontario Childrens Lawyers (OCL) get involved. The OCL is a government run advocate for children in custody cases. Their job is to throw out the he/said she/said noise and look for signal. I was wholly surprised that my ex agreed to the OCL. The OCL took our case.

    Flash forward 8 months later and we have our disclosure meeting (which was earlier this week) and the OCL, and their court appointed clinical assist, very clearly stated the following in front of me, my lawyer, my ex and her lawyer:

    1. That they see serious alienation of the children against me.
    2. The OCL and CAS have both stated that there is nothing I am doing wrong. Even after nearly a year of observation and investigation.
    3. The children need significant therapy and from someone who has a specialty in PAS as well as someone who has experience in deprogramming. (their words almost verbatim)
    4. The children are in serious distress and have stark views of me for no reason. (although they were pressed)
    5. The childrens views and preferences are not independent.
    6. CAS has recorded that my ex has been coaching my children and was told to stop.
    7. The children came into the OCL meetings with a list of issues and complaints against me and started to discuss them well before basic questions like "How are you today" could even be asked. (which shows even more coaching and according to the timelines - AFTER CAS told her to stop)
    8. That I learned of the second false allegation of child abuse in the disclosure meeting. (which was also through out).
    9. CAS has investigated all allegations against me - all found to be unfounded.
    10. The OCL has refused to put their assessment in writing - although my lawyer has said hell swear an affidavit to relay to the judge what was said.

    Yet to my absolute dismay they did not change custody - only suggested we get more therapy to reassess. I was gobstopped. Still am to be honest.

    So I have found my expert psychologist, as the OCL suggested, and they have chimed in and said the OCL was wrong in only suggesting a reassessment. The Dr says an assessment has been done and action should have been taken.

    So I am wondering - given the situation, I am going to put a parenting pan together as you suggested, but I want to make sure I don't miss a note. If I am to go in and request the judge to remove custody from my ex (as I should so my kids have a fighting chance in therapy), bar all communication between my ex and my kids - while my children are in therapy and force her into therapy so she not only sees the damage she created but acknowledges it and changes her ways - what else would you suggest for me to do to be fully prepared to make the judges job clear and simple?

    My children can not withstand another assessment nor can they continue to be in her custody given the evidence the OCL provided.


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  • #2
    Hi krissan, is your expert psychologist expensive? I'm disputing my OCL report and I may need one. Thanks.

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    • #3
      I am not in Ottawa, we are Toronto. They run $250 per hour.


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      • #4
        I'm in Toronto too.

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        • #5
          This is a case that I read a while back but you might find it quite interesting and relevant to your boyfriend's situation (parental alienation, false accusations of abuse and the resulting order that the mother ended up with a no-contact order).

          It is a lengthy read and is from the Halton area of Ontario:

          A.F. v. D.G.1., 2012 ONSC 764 (CanLII), <CanLII - 2012 ONSC 764 (CanLII)

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          • #6
            @arabian I am not seeing a link. Can you repost?

            @paco you need someone that specializes in custody assessments. Most are a $7500 upfront and 20k for a 3 month assessment. We are trying to avoid this step as we just went through an 8 month assessment. The OCL needs to not "pass the buck".


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            • #7
              here is another, more recent case from BC:

              C.A.J. v. N.J., 2014 BCSC 279 (CanLII), <CanLII - 2014 BCSC 279 (CanLII)

              The Ontario one (click on the light blue print on the right on either):

              A.F. v. D.G.1., 2012 ONSC 764 (CanLII), <http://canlii.ca/t/fpw66
              Last edited by arabian; 03-16-2014, 03:36 PM.

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              • #8
                @arabian I guess the links do not work on iPhone. I will look on my laptop tonight. Thanks so much for the help. We are looking to get all of our ducks in a row quickly so we can go to court and stop this abuse!!!


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                • #9
                  @arabian thank you for the case links. The Halton case is close to ours minus the 5 doctors. We will have 1, 2 social workers and the OCL.

                  A very good read!


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                  • #10
                    Nightmare for sure!

                    From what I have read lately, B.C. seems to have the most published cases dealing with these issues on CanLII. You can always use other Provinces as references. Did you note the amount of days in trial this case took? All I can say is MEGA BUCKS. Bringing in expert witnesses would be extremely costly.

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                    • #11
                      Yes, the first thing we said when we read it was "this case was major expensive"!!

                      We think that our case can be done through motions court. Getting all the ducks in a row upfront. Case conference is end of May.


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                      • #12
                        I might be wrong here, but I think your talking about two different problems.
                        1. Your thread is called OCL won't provide disclosure
                        2. Then you start talking about Alienation

                        These are two very different things.
                        With regards to OCL since this is the topic of the thread.

                        Please provide answers to the following questions:
                        1. What are the ages of the children under the OCL involvement.
                        2. What kind of OCL assessment did you have, do you have a OCL lawyer involved or is it just an assessor, or both?
                        3. Has a disclosure meeting taken place?
                        4. Has a OCL assessor affidavit (THE OCL REPORT) been filed with the court.

                        Note: disclosure of the collateral material and notes from the assessor will only be disclosed if and only if there is no OCL Lawyer involved. If a OCL lawyer was appointed than everything the lawyer was present for is under client solicitor privilege and will not be disclosed, there will also be no report to dispute.

                        Please answer the questions above so I can help you further.

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                        • #13
                          1. Children are ages 12 and 14
                          2. OCL lawyer and a social worker that deals with alienation called in on a section 30
                          3. Yes, disclosure meeting took place but they refuse to put their findings in writing for the court. They want us to spend 20k on a reassessment with a Doctor that specializes in deprogramming.
                          4. No, they won't provide it.


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                          • #14
                            5. Their only position after is to get a specialist to determine the cause of the alienation. The Father is not suspected to be the cause.

                            6. We went to a specialist and he says its not in the best interests of the children to do a second 8 month long assessment and OCL is "passing the buck and not following procedure"
                            6. OCL and section 30 social worker says the situation is so severe that its "out of their expertise"


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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Krisann View Post
                              1. Children are ages 12 and 14
                              2. OCL lawyer and a social worker that deals with alienation called in on a section 30
                              3. Yes, disclosure meeting took place but they refuse to put their findings in writing for the court. They want us to spend 20k on a reassessment with a Doctor that specializes in deprogramming.
                              4. No, they won't provide it.
                              Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
                              Confusing information, section 30 I believe is a private assessment.

                              As a starting point, it is important to remember that there are two means by which the Office of the Children's lawyer ("OCl") can become involved in custody/access proceedings in Ontario. Specifically:
                              1) The OCl may be appointed to provide independent legal representation to a
                              child pursuant to section 89(3.1) of the Courts of Justice Act; and
                              2) The OCl may be appointed pursuant to section 112 of the Courts of Justice Act, so that a clinical Investigation and Report be completed.

                              Given the age of the children I would argue a lawyer and an clinical assist (social worker) was brought in. So you have option 1. and fall under 89(3.1) of the courts of justice act. Independent legal representation.

                              So homework now is for you to read that section of the act.

                              As such no report, and no disclosure. This is a given and no way to change this fact. So as to your thread, your question has been answered.

                              The OCL can't and won't provide disclosure. The OCL is representing your children.

                              So now you want to challenge the position of the Children's Lawyer via section 89(3.1)
                              There are two way that I know of to do that.
                              1. The OCL has failed to follow its internal policy statement in respect of the role of counsel, and not presented evidence to support it's position when it takes the position contrary to the views of and preferences of the child.

                              2. The views and preferences of the child is only one factor and not the only factor as stated in section 24(2) of the children's law reform act. and therefore is not the be all and end all of the outcome of a case.

                              I believe 1 and 2 fall under your case.
                              With regards to 1:
                              Since we don't know what the children really want, we can assume they don't want to be assessed again. As such the OCL lawyer is not following the views and preferences of the children.
                              Therefore to dispute this issue, you claim the children won't benefit from another private assessment, and the family (parents) don't have the money. The children need peace and closure and direction to move forward and this would be hampered by another assessment. As such the case should move urgently to trial immediately where a judge can listen to all issues at once and make an order.

                              2. Section 24 of the children's law reform act states how custody and access are to be determined, one factor is the children's preferences.
                              Your argument if your children are being influenced shouldn't be given much weight. and more weight should be given to the reasonableness or lack thereof of the other parent to foster a relationship between the children and both parents.
                              Focus on your past involvement, focus on why the children benefit from your involvement. Focus on both parents strengths, not the other parents weaknesses.

                              This is how you challenge the position of the OCL lawyer and clinical assist.

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