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  • Question about me having to sign court order

    Hi everyone...hope you are all well

    Looking for opinions...

    I`m a new dad to a 9 month old....mom and I were rocky after the birth but we have come around and things are going well, visitation is going very well. I`ve been paying support since I did the paternity test that we did just after the birth.

    She lives 5 hrs away, so it makes this whole situation interesting.

    I`m self represented, I signed an order that I thought was reasonable(in her lawyers office)....it gave her primary residence. and I have the right to third party records....and the right to make major decisions concerning the child....but after talking to a duty counsel(told him the long story) he said I should strike out those sections on residence and decision making as I have a very good case for joint custody with primary residence with the mom.

    We then went to court on my motion for joint custody with residence with the mom, the judge would not hear a word of my motion and requested that I re-sign the agreement in front of her. I got up and left the court at that point without signing.

    So now I have a temporary court order in front of me(mailed) that her lawyer is asking me to initial under the judges name/date......

    Can I cross out the sections residence/decision making ....leave the support and visitation items and sign it like that?

    Should I just not sign this and what happens if I don't?


    Thanks everyone...have a great day

  • #2
    Originally posted by toronto_father2 View Post
    Hi everyone...hope you are all well

    Looking for opinions...

    I`m a new dad to a 9 month old....mom and I were rocky after the birth but we have come around and things are going well, visitation is going very well. I`ve been paying support since I did the paternity test that we did just after the birth.

    She lives 5 hrs away, so it makes this whole situation interesting.

    I`m self represented, I signed an order that I thought was reasonable(in her lawyers office)....it gave her primary residence. and I have the right to third party records....and the right to make major decisions concerning the child....but after talking to a duty counsel(told him the long story) he said I should strike out those sections on residence and decision making as I have a very good case for joint custody with primary residence with the mom.

    We then went to court on my motion for joint custody with residence with the mom, the judge would not hear a word of my motion and requested that I re-sign the agreement in front of her. I got up and left the court at that point without signing.

    So now I have a temporary court order in front of me(mailed) that her lawyer is asking me to initial under the judges name/date......

    Can I cross out the sections residence/decision making ....leave the support and visitation items and sign it like that?

    Should I just not sign this and what happens if I don't?


    Thanks everyone...have a great day
    So you want Joint Custody which gives you decision making but the child resides with Mom VS Sole Custody with you having decision making and rights to 3 rd party information and the child resides with Mom?

    Are you concerned Mom might move further away? Restrict your access and cut you out of the picture? Not sure you can just walk out on a judge and then change what he has told you to sign.

    If you feel you did not have access to appropriate legal counsel you can submit a motion to overturn the order and change it.

    But I think you need to sign this or send in a counter motion of some sort. Ignoring things never make it better.

    Comment


    • #3
      This is a bit confusing. Your initial offer had primary residence with the mother but with decision-making and records shared between you? And the mom agreed to that offer? That pretty much *is* joint custody (according to the legal definition - custody deals with decision-making), so I don't see why your motion to put the words "joint custody" into the agreement was turned down.

      I don't know much about court procedures, but I suspect it would be a very bad idea to strike out sections of the agreement you don't like and sign the rest. I suggest you continue paying child support and continue access with your child while you work towards getting joint custody into your order.

      Have you talked to the mother about revising your agreement or adding an amendment which specifies joint custody? What did she say? It doesn't sound like she would have anything to lose by agreeing to it, as it would not affect her primary residence with the child and would not affect her receiving child support from you. Some people think that joint custody means the child resides equally with both parents, which isn't necessarily the case.

      Comment


      • #4
        Your reply reminded me of what went on in the court on motion day....I asked the judge whats to stop her from moving away if its not defined in the agreement or if we dont have joint custody and the judges reply was it was not her problem to deal with.

        I had prepared a fair agreement ...that was basically cut and pasted from judges trial decisions on CanII ...the judge would not look at it and would only talk to the moms lawyer and look at the agreement that the other lawyer had prepared....

        Comment


        • #5
          I believe judges do not like to change things at the last minute, nor do they like to revisit agreements that have already been signed. Way too much reading for them.

          Mom already lives 5 hours away, so you cannot argue that she should not be allowed to move out of your area. Is it possible for you to move closer to where Mom and child reside. If so, then you could have a case to establish habitual residence and file a motion to restrict her moving from that area. You could also push for more access if you lived close. Joint custody is hard when you live far apart. Yes, you can have input on legal, education and medical matters, but in reality if you live 5 hours apart you cannot have daily contact. At 9 months old the child spends many hours with Mom. You have to be there on a regular basis to bath and assist in feedings, take the child out for walks etc. Hard to do when you have a 5 hour drive.

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by Beachnana View Post
            I believe judges do not like to change things at the last minute, nor do they like to revisit agreements that have already been signed. Way too much reading for them.

            Mom already lives 5 hours away, so you cannot argue that she should not be allowed to move out of your area. Is it possible for you to move closer to where Mom and child reside. If so, then you could have a case to establish habitual residence and file a motion to restrict her moving from that area. You could also push for more access if you lived close. Joint custody is hard when you live far apart. Yes, you can have input on legal, education and medical matters, but in reality if you live 5 hours apart you cannot have daily contact. At 9 months old the child spends many hours with Mom. You have to be there on a regular basis to bath and assist in feedings, take the child out for walks etc. Hard to do when you have a 5 hour drive.
            I think you are getting custody and access mixed up. One does not require physical contact to have joint custody. OP could very well have joint custody, with limited access. custody is strictly about decision making abilities, however this does not include day to day decisions, it is geared towards major decisions such as health, education, religion, etc.

            In my opinion, joint custody should be almost automatic, unless you and the mother have zero communication skills. I agree that being closer is always easier, however I also know it is not always possible. You may be fighting a losing battle due to Mom being the primary parent and you guys living 5 hours apart.

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by Berner_Faith View Post
              I think you are getting custody and access mixed up. One does not require physical contact to have joint custody. OP could very well have joint custody, with limited access. custody is strictly about decision making abilities, however this does not include day to day decisions, it is geared towards major decisions such as health, education, religion, etc.

              In my opinion, joint custody should be almost automatic, unless you and the mother have zero communication skills. I agree that being closer is always easier, however I also know it is not always possible. You may be fighting a losing battle due to Mom being the primary parent and you guys living 5 hours apart.
              No, I was not confused. I know they can have joint custody. But if he is concerned with her moving away he needs to be closer than 5 hours, so he can establish closer more frequent parenting with a 9 month old. If she moves further away, which he seemed to indicate was a concern he will can still have joint custody but his access will be limited and I got the impression from his original post that this is not acceptable.

              IMO he needs to establish himself closer and more involved, therefore showing the judge he wants more access time and preventing Mom from up and leaving the area to be say 10 hours away.

              Comment


              • #8
                If the OP had joint custody and the child was of school age, then I believe he might be able to stop the mom moving further away, because that move would have an impact on the child's education, which is supposed to be shared decision-making. However, with a kid that young, if Mom has primary residence and already lives five hours away, I can't see why she wouldn't be allowed to move another five hours. Decisions can be made by phone, email, etc. However, the OP might be able to request that his CS payments be reduced because of the additional cost for him to exercise his access, made necessary by Mom deciding to move.

                Comment


                • #9
                  If he could move closer, then he would have a,case to spend more time with the child and prevent Mom from moving away, however, as he lives 5 hours away he will have no chance. Sure, if she moves further away he can apply to have CS reduced to cover his extra cost, but I can tell you that is not how to build a parenting relationship.

                  iMO his best chance is to move closer to Mom and child and build upon that relationship.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    If I recall his situation correctly (I may be mixing him up with someone else) he has 50-50 with another child where he currently lives, and it was the mother of his second child who moved away while pregnant. Any gains he makes for the second child would be losses with the first child.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Rioe View Post
                      If I recall his situation correctly (I may be mixing him up with someone else) he has 50-50 with another child where he currently lives, and it was the mother of his second child who moved away while pregnant. Any gains he makes for the second child would be losses with the first child.
                      After reading your comment, I went back and looked at previous postings by OP. So, yes you are right he does have another child who lives close by. So not a great position to be in. He seems to be trying to control what happens to child number 2 quite a lot. Seems he needs some information on effective birth control. Sorry, if that seems harsh, but really in this day keep making this sort of mistake more than once is really puzzling.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        same fellow

                        toronto_father2 - you actually walked out on a judge while court was in session? And you think this will help you in the future?

                        The document you refer to in this thread, is it for the the same judge?

                        This just keeps getting better and better.

                        Is the OP perhaps getting some words mixed up (orders, offers to settle, motions)? Am I missing something?
                        Last edited by arabian; 02-16-2014, 08:26 PM.

                        Comment

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