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  • War vs Battle

    Like many, I have struggles with the day to day anger and frustration, and weighing the long term analysis of what's best for my son.

    Background: Separated for 3 years, de facto joint custody/access during these 3 years, working on finalizing by the end of the year.

    We are at the stage where communication is only through lawyers, my ex-wife isn't allowing me to call my son while she has him for a vacation period (within jurisdiction), she has repeatedly interfered with my scheduled days, and she is telling my son that I won't allow this and that (she has requested some international travel, which I have declined until we have a final agreement in place).

    I keep being told to focus on getting the agreement signed, sealed and delivered, which I'm doing, but I have to wonder, what's to prevent her from continuing this behaviour? Police enforcement of a custody agreement/order is notoriously difficult to obtain, I have no CLEAR parental alienation evidence (although she is forming a pattern), and I can't afford to challenge her in court for everything she may try in the future.

    Is this really going to be a life of me getting my lawyer to send a letter each time, but the behaviour returning after a while? If an agreement isn't really enforceable except for the extreme cases (abuse, etc), what the hell is the point?

    I'm feeling so deflated lately that the system is really not out to protect the kids, and enforce court orders. I have a meeting with OCL coming up, but to be honest, they have more extreme and pressing cases to deal with.

    I'm managing the day to day stress by trying to think long term. My son will one day know who is the stable parent, and who is the manipulator. Is that really all I can hang on to?

    No hugs needed, but I'm wondering if anyone is managing the same stresses and having some success?

  • #2
    Originally posted by YYZDaddy View Post

    Is this really going to be a life of me getting my lawyer to send a letter each time, but the behaviour returning after a while? If an agreement isn't really enforceable except for the extreme cases (abuse, etc), what the hell is the point?

    Unfortunately after 18 months of unproductive litigation, I feel the same way. I can no longer afford the costs of getting my lawyer to take care of the several issues involved with my case. I'm one of the lucky ones, as our son is an adult, so no custody problems to deal with.

    I'm starting to to disengage with the entire process. So far my lawyer has managed to get me a decent SA agreement, though getting it enforced is quite another matter. The Canadian law machine is decrepit and breaking down just as fast as the medical system ... overloaded and badly run.

    Comment


    • #3
      How old is your son?

      Nothing will prevent her from continuing her behavior if she chooses, but that doesn't mean that your relationship with your son will be destroyed by it. He will figure things out - manipulative parents don't deceive children forever. Your son may go along with his mother to keep the peace, but if she's jerking him around and you're not, he will see that. My daughter is 8, and she already has her father figured out (*without* prompting from me). He's not the biggest jerk in the world, but he has a habit of not following through with promises to her and of telling her things which aren't true.

      You may find that you have to help your son manage his anger and disappointment with his mother when he does figure things out. As long as he has one consistent and loving parent to help him with this, he has a good chance of being okay.

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by stripes View Post
        How old is your son?

        You may find that you have to help your son manage his anger and disappointment with his mother when he does figure things out. As long as he has one consistent and loving parent to help him with this, he has a good chance of being okay.
        He's 6.
        Thank you. My heart is aching, but I continue to just be as stable, consistent and there for him as I can. That's all I can do for the moment. I am trying to not let her actions get under my skin... and not doing very well yet. It WILL get better!

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        • #5
          I totally agree with your frustrations. I got so tired of everything: asking repeatedly for things that really should be "simple" like disclosure; paying absurd amounts of money on a lawyer who would send letters that were ignored. Then grew even more frustrated listening to my lawyer tell me there was "no enforceability clause" every time I asked him what was the point of trying to negotiate an agreement with someone who was not even participating in the process never mind respecting it. Simply ridiculous.

          Unfortunately I essentially got to the point where I too decided to disengage and walk away from the things I could not change. I could not justify the expense so i took my case off the trial list and settled.

          I too have always tried to maintain the high road and the hope that one day my children would grow and develop to form their own independent opinions regarding their parents. I can see my eldest is struggling with this now.

          I am pleased to have a finalized divorce but in all honesty it has not really changed anything. Despite having what I consider a rather vague agreement, most of it has not been honoured by my ex (RRSP transfer, NOA exchange, change in life insurance beneficiary designation, etc). The only way things have gotten "better" between the ex and I is when I have chosen to walk away. Wrong, yes, as that does not resolve anything, but that seems to be my reality. I wish you a better outcome.

          Comment


          • #6
            My daughter was 6 when we separated. I agree about the heartache Tonight, D8 had (another) Sunday night meltdown - she doesn't want to go to her father's house tomorrow (Monday is our weekly changeover day) because of rivalry issues with her stepmom and stepsister, and she was angry at me for not letting her stay at my place for more nights. In her view, I'm being mean and insensitive to her unhappiness. All I can do is try to be firm and model the behavior I would like to see from the ex - I love her and care about how she feels, but her father loves her too and they need time with each other. I don't always succeed in keeping my feelings about the ex separate from my interactions with her, but I'm working on it.

            It sounds like you're doing the right things. Of course your ex's actions will get under your skin at times; how could they not? She knows what buttons to push. The important thing is not how you feel as much as how you act around your child. That's what will make things better in the end.

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by stripes View Post
              I don't always succeed in keeping my feelings about the ex separate from my interactions with her, but I'm working on it.
              Excellent advice - this is something I still struggle with. Whatever opinion I may have about the ex, he's still my son's father and nothing will ever change that fact. At times it can be very challenging but it DOES get better.

              With time, your son will realize where the negativity comes from and will appreciate that you're not creating more conflict. What's to stop him from getting his own cell phone and calling you when he chooses to? Your ex's attempts to push you out of his life may have the opposite effect down the road. For now he's still very young and doesn't have a say-so in any of this. That will change. Stay on the path your on, be consistent and available to him and things will gradually improve.

              The tough part is finding the patience to deal with it.

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by YYZDaddy View Post
                Like many, I have struggles with the day to day anger and frustration, and weighing the long term analysis of what's best for my son.
                I would recommend you seek out a psychologist to assist you through this matter. They can provide you with tools to help you deal with the "day to day anger and frustration". I would recommend one that practices in CBT generally as it is in my humble opinion the best methodology that has the best evidence based medicine supporting it.

                Originally posted by YYZDaddy View Post
                We are at the stage where communication is only through lawyers, my ex-wife isn't allowing me to call my son while she has him for a vacation period (within jurisdiction)
                Duration is the key. The general guidelines that most Section 30 evaluators use is that access calls should only happen if the child away from a parent for more than 5 days. Otherwise no access call is necessary. And it is ONE access call in a 5 day period. Not a call every night BTW.

                I am not a huge fan of access calls. Most of the time they create more unnecessary conflict than benefit for the child. The key should be reducing conflict and not creating it. As well, you mentioned the child is 6 years old. Section 30 evaluators generally option for the calls to be the duration of the child's age. So that is a six minute telephone call.

                Originally posted by YYZDaddy View Post
                she has repeatedly interfered with my scheduled days, and she is telling my son that I won't allow this and that (she has requested some international travel, which I have declined until we have a final agreement in place).
                You should be on a 2-2-5-5 based access schedule:

                http://www.ottawadivorce.com/forum/f...plained-13702/

                Originally posted by YYZDaddy View Post
                I keep being told to focus on getting the agreement signed, sealed and delivered, which I'm doing, but I have to wonder, what's to prevent her from continuing this behaviour?
                The behaviour you have described is quite common and there isn't much you can do. I would recommend a very detailed access schedule (above) and specific about how custody (health, education) are going to be handled and by whom.

                I am a strong supporter of "parallel parenting". There needs to be an "iron wall" (agreement) that provides for both parent to have autonomy from the other parent while the child/ren is residing with them. Less communication and interaction -- NOT MORE.

                I am not a fan of "shared parenting". It is hard to achieve the perfection that it often strives for. Parallel parenting is much better in most situations. Parents often need an agreement to govern them and their conduct.

                Originally posted by YYZDaddy View Post
                Police enforcement of a custody agreement/order is notoriously difficult to obtain, I have no CLEAR parental alienation evidence (although she is forming a pattern), and I can't afford to challenge her in court for everything she may try in the future.
                Stay away from "police enforcement" clauses. See this:

                http://www.ottawadivorce.com/forum/f...-clause-17252/

                Also, there is no "parental alienation" probably on your file. Parental alienation is not something that is common. What you are experiencing is "bad parenting" and not "parental alienation" I suspect.

                The key factor to establishing evidence to PA(S) is if the child "hates" a parent. This is the complete and utter absence of "love" without justification. It is VERY rare.

                I would caution you to filter what you read on the internet. If you are a professional in a specific field apply the same filter you would on nonsense posted about your own profession on the internet to what you read about PA(S). There is a lot of bad advice on the interweb of nonsense.

                Originally posted by YYZDaddy View Post
                Is this really going to be a life of me getting my lawyer to send a letter each time, but the behaviour returning after a while? If an agreement isn't really enforceable except for the extreme cases (abuse, etc), what the hell is the point?
                So you have something you can enforce. Access schedules are VERY enforceable. Custody agreements are very enforceable. If they cut the nonsense and BS and are written correctly...

                Originally posted by YYZDaddy View Post
                I'm feeling so deflated lately that the system is really not out to protect the kids, and enforce court orders. I have a meeting with OCL coming up, but to be honest, they have more extreme and pressing cases to deal with.
                Too many cases go to the OCL these days.

                Originally posted by YYZDaddy View Post
                I'm managing the day to day stress by trying to think long term. My son will one day know who is the stable parent, and who is the manipulator. Is that really all I can hang on to?
                "Relax"
                "It's just a phase"
                "You'll grow out of it"


                \m/
                Tayken

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                • #9
                  Tayken, what was your experience with 2-2-5-5?

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    pmed instead
                    Last edited by OntarioMomma; 07-31-2014, 08:29 AM.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Speaking for myself, it worked very well for my son as a young child. However, as he got older it added more stress to him as well as my ex and I.

                      We are now on a "week about" schedule (alternating weeks) which is working VERY well.

                      I believe 2255 is recommended from 2-5 yrs?

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by YYZDaddy View Post
                        Speaking for myself, it worked very well for my son as a young child. However, as he got older it added more stress to him as well as my ex and I.

                        We are now on a "week about" schedule (alternating weeks) which is working VERY well.

                        I believe 2255 is recommended from 2-5 yrs?
                        Bold 1: This makes sense because eventually as young kids grow, they wouldn't want to be bounced around every couple of days

                        Bold 2: Do you or anyone else have any case law (jurispundence) to back this up?

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by childfocused View Post
                          Bold 2: Do you or anyone else have any case law (jurispundence) to back this up?
                          My 2255 information simply came from my lawyer and a couple of parental coordinators. Would be interesting to see if there is any jurisprudence to back it up. No longer relevant to me, but others may benefit.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            My son had just turned 3 and he handled week on, week off quite well. My daughter was 7. If you're a competent, caring parent that gives them the attention that they need, and they have a clear understanding of how things are set up, week on, week off goes just fine, even for the younger ones.

                            Any scenario will work as long as there is consistency and the kids are put first. I have a friend of mine who alternates every day with his ex. I think he's crazy, but it apparently works for them. He doesn't really have much of a life outside being a parent to three girls under eight years old, but he's at a point in his life right now where he doesn't care about a social life, he cares about being a constant presence in his kids' life.

                            There are all kinds of complications and differences between everyone that necessitates creative arrnagements. Some split families have one or two parents that work weird jobs and weird shifts, and sometimes have to have a very fleixble and/or have fragmented weeks to make it work.

                            In my situation, I have a stable 9-5 office job, Monday to Friday. My ex works part-time at a bank as a teller. Her hours are all over the place. We picked week on, week off because at least one of us was able to have a stable schedule. There are times when I end up taking the kids off of her hands for the odd night during 'her' week. There are other times that her boyfriend watches them. For a brief period, I had to work out of town and I had them Friday-Monday, she had them Tuesday-Thursday, and she got to have them one weeked per month to balance things out. It meant that the kids only went about 3 days between seeing parents. You might think they would have liked it, but they hated it. They strongly desired a return to week on, week off because it gave them a chance to get into the routine of things.

                            Some folks have speculated on the notion of doing week on, week offs that feature an exchange on Wednesdays. While that handily manages the issue of long weekends and holidays, it splits my kids' school weeks up, and they HATE that. They really do prefer being with one parent for a straight week. It makes it very clear for them (except summer holidays) in that they know the last day of school is the same day that they change households. They then get a full weekend with either parent to kickstart their week with that parent.

                            Lots of different ways to manage it. If your ex can finally wrap her head around the fact that 50-50 is in the best interest of the children/child, and you are both flexible and put the kids first, you will work something out.

                            That being said, are you dealing with a mobility issue as well?

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              @ Strait...so do you guys maintain the week about during the summer as well? It makes sense especially when it comes to vacations, campin, etc

                              Your friend with 3 daughters...Yikes

                              Comment

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