Legal wording in SA?

[SadAndTired]

Honest to goodness, I can't believe I am posting about this stupidity but here I go.

Our Minutes of Settlement say this exactly:

The father shall have access to the children alternate weekends from Friday at 5pm until Sunday at 4pm. Should Monday be a statutory holiday, the children shall be returned to the mothers residence on Monday at 4pm. When the drop off is during a holiday or not on a school night, the drop off time shall be 7pm save and except for the Labour Day weekend.

So, from my perspective, what I had directed my lawyer is that on long weekends ex could keep the kids longer except for Labour Day. This was to ensure they were ready for school, etc. I didn't care about any other long weekend and no other exceptions were made.

Ex just sent me an email saying he would be keeping the children until 4 pm on Labour Day (Monday) and that the Labour Day "save and except" on pertains to the return time because of the way it is written.

I say he is splitting hairs and trying to use a loop hole. He was very clear about my request when we discussed it prior to signing.

Can anyone else read it for me? Of course, if he persists I will contact my lawyer but I don't want to bother the guy if my agreement seems sound.

Thanks.

[Mess]

We have a fractured schedule based on an assortment of compromises.

I always end up sending the kids over for Monday on a long weekend. It prevents us from actually planning to long weekend things, like a trip out of town.

I doubt your ex is trying to f^ck you over for the sake of it. I think he just wants to enjoy the long weekend, not break it in half. If he sends the kids over at 4pm then you can still get them ready for school tomorrow.

[frustratedwithex]

The father shall have access to the children alternate weekends from Friday at 5pm until Sunday at 4pm. Should Monday be a statutory holiday, the children shall be returned to the mothers residence on Monday at 4pm. When the drop off is during a holiday or not on a school night, the drop off time shall be 7pm save and except for the Labour Day weekend.

I read this to mean he can drop off on Labour day at 4pm. If it is a holiday Monday, and not Labour day, he can drop off at 7pm.

[SadAndTired]

I know this seems ridiculous Mess. It is just one of many ridiculous arguments he has put forth since the darn thing has been signed. I was under the assumption that having a SA would solve some of the issues.

I agreed to him picking up the children early so they could have more time but he just pushes and pushes for everything he can.

It is his weekend. No problem. I don't know what I will actually do. I was just wondering more about the legality of what was written.

[Qrious]

Oh dear. I was confused about what you were asking, until I realized the two different interpretations for long weekend Mondays.

Children are returned by 7:00 if no school the next day, 4:00 if there is.

Interpretation 1. Labour Day Monday doesn't count at all and kids returned Sunday.
Interpretation 2. Labour Day return is 4:00 because there's school the next day.

I am so sorry to say that I interpreted your SA wording to mean 4:00 return on Monday of Labour Day weekend.

The wording certainly isn't clear. It's unfortunate that your X is using this to his advantage if he already knew you wished the Labour Day Monday to not count as an extended weekend.

[standing on the sidelines]

I read this to mean he can drop off on Labour day at 4pm. If it is a holiday Monday, and not Labour day, he can drop off at 7pm.

I also read it that way.

[SadAndTired]

Nah, that is okay Qrious. In the grand scheme of things, it is ridiculous.

Does it change anyone's mind when I outline it like this??

What it was supposed to intend is.

• Return time during school year - 4 pm Sunday.

• Return time if no school Monday (like PD Day or Summer vacation) - 7 pm Sunday

• Return time if it is his weekend and a long weekend - 4 pm Monday

Except for Labour Day which is return on Sunday at 4 pm.

You can look at it another way. It was one of the only things I asked for during our negotiation over access. He now wants to use it just to make me mad.

Ah well.

[standing on the sidelines]

Nah, that is okay Qrious. In the grand scheme of things, it is ridiculous.

Does it change anyone's mind when I outline it like this??

What it was supposed to intend is.

• Return time during school year - 4 pm Sunday.

• Return time if no school Monday (like PD Day or Summer vacation) - 7 pm Sunday

• 
  Return time if it is his weekend and a long weekend - 4 pm Monday

Except for Labour Day which is return on Sunday at 4 pm.

You can look at it another way. It was one of the only things I asked for during our negotiation over access. He now wants to use it just to make me mad.

Ah well.

Point two and three seem to say the same thing but with a different time to return the kids. No school monday makes it a long weekend.

[SadAndTired]

Point two and three seem to say the same thing but with a different time to return the kids. No school monday makes it a long weekend.

No, they address different things. No school Monday could be a variety of things (PD at school, school holiday (summer vacation or Christmas break) not just a Stat holiday.

Say for example the weekend before March Break. Ex can bring them back at 7 pm Sunday (instead of 4 pm) because the children don't have school the next day. He doesn't keep them until Monday because he has to work the Monday.

All summer his drop off time is 7 pm because the kids don't have to go to school the next day and it doesn't matter if they are up later.

When the Monday is a stat holiday, he doesn't work and therefore is available to keep the kids an extra day.

Therefore

Return time during school year - 4 pm Sunday.
Return time if no school Monday (like PD Day or Summer vacation) - 7 pm Sunday
Return time if it is his weekend and a long weekend - 4 pm Monday

Does that explain it better?

As another example, all summer there is no school Monday (but not a stat holiday every weekend) so he brings them home at 7 pm on Sunday.

It was his request for the extra hours if the kids didn't have school the next day. I willingly said yes.

[Rioe]

Point out that this was not the intention of the Labour Day exception, as he should recall, but let it go the way he wants this year, as your wording is actually quite confusing. By my read, he should have the kids back to you Monday at 4pm.

Then make an offer to settle, motion on consent, whatever it is called, clarifying the paragraph to make it absolutely that Labour Day is an exception to the schedule and the kids should be home on Sunday at 4pm that long weekend.

As the kids get older and bedtime is later, it will become irrelevant. How badly do you want to fight over it?

[SadAndTired]

Point out that this was not the intention of the Labour Day exception, as he should recall, but let it go the way he wants this year, as your wording is actually quite confusing. By my read, he should have the kids back to you Monday at 4pm.

Then make an offer to settle, motion on consent, whatever it is called, clarifying the paragraph to make it absolutely that Labour Day is an exception to the schedule and the kids should be home on Sunday at 4pm that long weekend.

As the kids get older and bedtime is later, it will become irrelevant. How badly do you want to fight over it?

I don't want to fight this time either. I was simply pointing out the section in our agreement and he starting yelling and then hung up on me. Then he sent me an email saying he read the section over and over and over and Labour Day only applies to the 7 pm drop off (which is even more confusing considering the 7 pm only applies to Sundays.)

It was his lawyer that drafted the agreement. My lawyer only did summary of the changes I needed and then sent it to his lawyer for change.

I read it with my lawyer before I signed it. My lawyer said, although it may be confusing, ex understood my intent and it would stand. Figures it is the one thing ex wants to fight about now.

I don't want to fight. Just more of an intellectual exercise for me now.

[Qrious]

Thanks for sharing it, though. Good reminder for those of us in the midst of changing SAs to be very careful of the wording!

[frustratedwithex]

I am confused as to why it matters? Why do the kids need to be returned on the Sunday if the Monday is Labour Day?

When we were an intact family and the kids were small we sometimes went camping on the Labour Day long weekend and didn't get home until Monday afternoon.

The day before school starts the kids had a hard time sleeping anyway and we prepared for the first day the week before.

Some years the school board decided to start school the Wednesday before the long weekend just so the school year had the appropriate amount of "days in school". That really messed the kids up. They always felt they were ripped off of summer holidays.

Give your ex. the day. The kids will be older soon enough and it won't matter about bed times anymore.

[billm]

Honest to goodness, I can't believe I am posting about this stupidity but here I go.

I can't believe it either.

Ex just sent me an email saying he would be keeping the children until 4 pm on Labour Day (Monday) .

To which you should have replied "ok"

[SadAndTired]

I can't believe it either.



To which you should have replied "ok"

Well, we have some traditions that we do on Labour Day for back to school. I would like to maintain those.

Perhaps ex should be the one to say "Oh right, I know that day is important to you. Thanks for letting them go early and I'll bring them home Sunday."

Why is it always me that has to compromise? My ex KNEW I wanted the day and that it is important to me for a variety of reasons. He is the one playing games after knowing in June that this was important to me. In fact, he has known our older daughter's whole life. We have never vacationed on that day for that reason.

If he had asked for them 5 days early I would have said yes. He only asked for one day early and I readily agreed. I guess that isn't reasonable Bill?

He is only doing this to aggravate me as he has given no other reason and does not need the time for "plans".

Why shouldn't he have to just say okay?