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    So I am asking for my sister.

    She has had an on again off again relationship with her off again ex.

    They have a 3 and a half year old daughter.

    They have a court order giving him one night a week and on night on the weekends. He has never, EVER, taken his daughter overnight.

    What he does want to do is, drive over, every single night, to my sisters and bath and put their daughter to bed and then he goes home.

    Now, the child does not like her dad bathing her, she is extremely attached to her mother. So my sister has to participate with him, while he is in her home. While he is there he "puts" down my sister in front of the child, calling her names, telling her she will never further advance in her life, etc. This doesn't happen every time, but enough.

    She would like it so that he takes his daughter on his scheduled timings, not that she wants her daughter to go there, but understands he is legally entitled.

    She does this because she knows she has to put her daughters needs first, but she isn't comfortable with it.

    Odds are nothing bad will happen to her daughter while in the father's care, BUT, he does try to force feed the child, make her do things she doesn't want to do, ie, if he wants to read her a book, he will force her (even if she is crying, freaking out) to listen to him. At least when she lets him over at her house she can intervene. But this is a bit much to have him over every single night, walking around her house. She isn't in a relationship, but what happens if she wants to date, a bit awkward?

    Also, he does not have a bed for the child, when does it become unacceptable for the child to not sleep in the same bed as parents? With the understanding the child has never slept over with dad, but if she did it would be at most two nights a week. Also, is the mother expected to provide the car seat for him, or is that something he has to buy?

    Another thing is, he has to work very early, earlier than when the daycare opens, so he thinks he should be able to drop his daughter off the one weekday morning he has her. This means the child would have to get up at 5:00 am to accommodate his schedule. The child usually does not have to get up until 7am. Their agreement states he has to take her to the daycare.

    The father has issues with drinking as well, he has a pending dui charge and just recently admitted to drinking and driving to the mother. Drinking while caring for the child when they were together was an issue, and if he ever does take his child during his access time, this is a concern, but is there anything that can be done?

    I hope I am passing on the information correctly, if not just ask and I will get the answers.

    I guess my question is, what should she do, what is the right thing to do?

    Thank you for any help on this issue.
    Last edited by Unevenplayingground; 10-26-2012, 01:54 PM. Reason: Forgot to ask the main question

  • #2
    She has had an on again off again relationship with her off again ex.
    How long has it been "off again"? The reason I ask, is she is wanting him to follow the court order, but the way I read it, it seems to be on her terms. When they are on again, he is obviously allowed to do what he pleases with his daughter, including, bath and put her to bed, but when they fight and have an off again moment, she wants to follow the agreement. Before anything can really happy, she has to decide if she is committed or not and they both need to stop giving the child mixed messages (If this is in fact happening)

    They have a court order giving him one night a week and on night on the weekends. He has never, EVER, taken his daughter overnight.
    Again...the on and off comes into play here. If every other week they are on again, off again, he really has had no reason to take his daughter over night.

    What he does want to do is, drive over, every single night, to my sisters and bath and put their daughter to bed and then he goes home.
    Not practical...sure it would be nice, but again they would be sending the child conflicting messages.

    Now, the child does not like her dad bathing her, she is extremely attached to her mother. So my sister has to participate with him, while he is in her home. While he is there he "puts" down my sister in front of the child, calling her names, telling her she will never further advance in her life, etc. This doesn't happen every time, but enough.
    I find this a little fishy... could it be that Mom is overanxious and thus that rubs off on the daughter? Is Mom TOO involved with Dad's time? Is Mom putting Dad down (indirectly) in front of the child? Such as saying things to Dad like... don't do that, you are doing it wrong or do is this way? Mom may not even realize she is doing that, but if she is concerned that Dad is not doing it right, this could rub off on the child, thus making the child "not like her Dad bathing her".

    Simple fix...Dad should be taking the child on his scheduled parenting time to his residence or at the very least, Mom should just let Dad bath the daughter, as he will have to do it on his own eventually and Dad and daughter should get use to it.

    She would like it so that he takes his daughter on his scheduled timings, not that she wants her daughter to go there, but understands he is legally entitled.

    She does this because she knows she has to put her daughters needs first, but she isn't comfortable with it.
    He should be taking the daughter on his time and I truly hope she is not rubbing off on the child by being anxious or upset when it is time for the child to go with Dad. Truthfully, she was comfortable enough to have a child with this man, she now has to be comfortable enough that he will provide for his child on his time, without her interruption. Dad needs to learn to do things on his own and if Mom is always there to lead him along, he will never learn how to care for her.

    Odds are nothing bad will happen to her daughter while in the father's care, BUT, he does try to force feed the child, make her do things she doesn't want to do, ie, if he wants to read her a book, he will force her (even if she is crying, freaking out) to listen to him. At least when she lets him over at her house she can intervene. But this is a bit much to have him over every single night, walking around her house. She isn't in a relationship, but what happens if she wants to date, a bit awkward?
    Unless he has harmed the child in the past, she should not be worrying about what could happen. Again, her fears could rub off on the child, making the child nervous to go with her own father.

    Sometimes children must do things they do not wish to do. There are times when the step children are made to sit down and settle down, even though they cry and don't want to. There are times they are "forced" to clean their rooms, even though they throw a fit sometimes. Fact is, they are children and should be doing what they are told. Again, if this is happening at Mom's house, does Mom's reaction have an indirect effect on the child?

    Also, he does not have a bed for the child, when does it become unacceptable for the child to not sleep in the same bed as parents? With the understanding the child has never slept over with dad, but if she did it would be at most two nights a week. Also, is the mother expected to provide the car seat for him, or is that something he has to buy?
    When my cousin and his wife divorced, he could not afford a 2 bedroom unit and thus only had one bed. When he had his daughter, he slept on the couch and the child had the bed. CAS was involved in their case because of suspected abuse, and he was told that as long as the children had a bed to sleep in, that was all they cared about. They didn't care if he slept on the dog bed, their only concern was the children.

    That being said... when a child goes to a sleep over at a friends house, they don't always sleep in a bed, they sometimes camp out on the floor. Seeing as Dad only has daughter 2 nights a week, he could simply blow up an air mattress for the time being. A child at 3 loves to have camp outs. At least I know D4 does...there are nights she would prefer to put up her princess tent and camp out on her bedroom floor, instead of sleep in her bed.

    As for the car seat...that should not even have to be asked. Why would Dad have to buy a new one? The car seat is for the child, not for Mom. Seems silly to request Dad purchase a new one because Mom doesn't want to share. Does Dad pay CS (there is not mention in your post)

    Another thing is, he has to work very early, earlier than when the daycare opens, so he thinks he should be able to drop his daughter off the one weekday morning he has her. This means the child would have to get up at 5:00 am to accommodate his schedule. The child usually does not have to get up until 7am. Their agreement states he has to take her to the daycare.
    So this seems to be the reason Dad does not want to have the child overnights at this point. Seems he is thinking of the child in this case. He knows the child would have to be up very early for him to get to work. It is unfortunate but my step kids get up at 5am every day, to be at a sitter by 6am so Mom can make it to work by 7am.

    The father has issues with drinking as well, he has a pending dui charge and just recently admitted to drinking and driving to the mother. Drinking while caring for the child when they were together was an issue, and if he ever does take his child during his access time, this is a concern, but is there anything that can be done?
    Until the charge is laid, this will not mean much. Sure it shows he may have been drinking and driving, but until it is confirmed not much can be done. Nothing can really be done, Mom can only hope Dad will be responsible. It sucks sometimes, but that seems to be the way things go.

    I guess my question is, what should she do, what is the right thing to do?
    Tell Dad no more house visits. He is welcome to take the child on his scheduled time (or other agreed upon times) and he can take her to his place for the night. But there is no reason for him to be coming and going at her place as he pleases.

    Please don't think I am pinning anything on Mom. I am simply trying to provide another perspective. Mom seems to have a lot of uncertainties with Dad (and possibly rightfully so) but she needs to be careful these uncertainties do not rub off on her daughter.

    Comment


    • #3
      Your/mom's version of 'intervening' = the other parents version of 'undermining'.

      He has every right to expect the child to do as she's told, regardless of if she wants to. It's called parenting, and mom wouldn't like it if he was undermining her when she was parenting.

      Comment


      • #4
        Berner, Faith,

        I am going to number my answers because it won't let me quote your post.

        1. He just moved back out, and I completely agree, the getting back together has to stop. She would let him take the child overnight, he makes the choice to just go to her house. He doesn't want to deal with the child overnight, but says he will if he can't go to her house anymore.

        2. I should have explained this better, he moved out the first time, when his daughter was a few months old, then after about 2 years moved back in for about three months.

        3. I agree, it is not practical, nor should my sister have to deal with him helping himself to her food, making tea for himself. I'm trying to hold back on my feelings for this guy.

        4. The bath thing, I have talked about with her. I don't know, my sister never puts down the father, in front of me. I can't speak for times I am not around. I will say she has put up a lot more than I ever would have. This guy has threatened to kick the f'ing door down if she didn't, with his daughter on the other side. So I can't give you a guarantee, but I don't think she does. I do agree, I think she should stop allowing him over at her house, and insist if he wants her, to take her on his scheduled timings and see how it goes.

        5. I agree, she needs to cut the cord and see how it goes. I think she is scared but she had to let it go. Btw, the father insists he didn't try to have the child, even though he used no protection and he also had his sperm checked because they had been trying for over two years with no success??

        6. I wonder this as well, although I do know the father is careless. I mean this in the sense he has left a butcher's knife on the edge of the counter, things like that. Nobody is perfect, but he is unintentionally careless. Not that he would on purpose hurt her but there is more room for it in his care.

        7. So the bed, I agree, she is only there, well is only supposed to be there 2 nights a week, he can sleep on the sofa.

        Now, cs, he is supposed to pay table rate of $460, he only pays $200, when he pays it. She goes through family maintenance, and consistently has to wait for her late cs payment. He is also supposed to share the cost of childcare, he has never, I repeat, never paid this. He complains about paying $200.00 for the child. Also, the car seat is not practical to share in the sense that he would have to drop her at daycare, how is the mom supposed to get it back (there is no room at the daycare to store the seat, she asked). Not sure of another solution except for him to spring for one...

        8. He would only have to get her up early one morning out of the two. And he actually wants to wake her up at 5am, my sister thinks why do this to the child if you don't have to, so what do you do? I personally think he should keep the visitation to the weekend and not put the child through that.

        I appreciate this, I just didn't want to run back with only my opinion, and nice to have an "outside" opinion because friends and family tend to tell you what you want to hear.

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by blinkandimgone View Post
          Your/mom's version of 'intervening' = the other parents version of 'undermining'.

          He has every right to expect the child to do as she's told, regardless of if she wants to. It's called parenting, and mom wouldn't like it if he was undermining her when she was parenting.

          I definitely see what you are saying, and I agree. The only thing is, you have never seen this guy in action. Before they had the child, this guy used to "help" my son with his math homework. I was away on training, so my sister helped out. Well, he had my son in tears, he wouldn't let up, my sister pleaded with him to stop, he just doesn't let up. You really would have to meet this guy to truly understand his personality. I don't know how to explain it, but it goes beyond normal. I have many, many examples of his behavior. Even when they first had their child, my sister literally just gave birth (it was a very difficult birth) he would not let my sister hold her baby. I was there, I watched it, we had to tell him to let her see the baby, let alone hold her. When it came to breastfeeding, he forced this issue on my sister, so she would breastfeed the baby, and when she finished he would force the baby to drink a bottle of formula. He wouldn't listen to us when we tried to tell him the babies belly is only so big. To him, it is control.

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by Unevenplayingground View Post
            The only thing is, you have never seen this guy in action. I have many, many examples of his behavior.
            Does he pose a danger to the child? Will he physically assault her? Will he let her starve? Will the child be left to live in squalor?

            I'm sure you don't like him, that is very clear, but remember that for the kid, this guy is her only father.


            When it came to breastfeeding, he forced this issue on my sister, so she would breastfeed the baby, and when she finished he would force the baby to drink a bottle of formula.
            His version of the story:

            "The mother refuses to let me bond with my child at all. I wanted the opportunity to feed my child, and she insists on breastfeeding all the time. I feel like she is trying to exclude me. I try to feed the baby, but after she's done pumping him with her breastmilk, the kid is not interested. It sucks, but I try to maintain as much contact as I possibly can. I just hope that the courts don't cut me out completely"

            To him, it is control.
            There are certainly control issues here. The question is, who has the issue?

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by Janus View Post
              Does he pose a danger to the child? Will he physically assault her? Will he let her starve? Will the child be left to live in squalor?

              No, I don't think he will purposely assault her. He won't let her starve, but he will force feed her.

              I'm sure you don't like him, that is very clear, but remember that for the kid, this guy is her only father.

              No, I don't like him, but because I care enough about my niece I put a post on here, trying to explain the situation so I can get productive feedback for my sister.



              His version of the story:

              "The mother refuses to let me bond with my child at all. I wanted the opportunity to feed my child, and she insists on breastfeeding all the time. I feel like she is trying to exclude me. I try to feed the baby, but after she's done pumping him with her breastmilk, the kid is not interested. It sucks, but I try to maintain as much contact as I possibly can. I just hope that the courts don't cut me out completely"

              See my below post please.


              There are certainly control issues here. The question is, who has the issue?
              I'm not sure why you would put that last sentence in there. My sister has never denied access to him ( I have been clear on explaining this), she actually lets him come into her house because he won't take his child overnight. He has NEVER taken his daughter overnight, because he CHOSES to not take her overnight. I think I explained in a post to Bernier, Faith that he wouldn't even let my sister hold the baby after she gave birth. What I didn't say was this behavior continued when they got home, the only reason he would pass the baby back to my sister is so she could breast feed. He told her that if she didn't breast feed she didn't want what was best for her child. So after he bullied her into breastfeeding, he would then give the infant a bottle of milk. Yes, I guess it is my sister that has the issue with control??

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Unevenplayingground View Post
                So I am asking for my sister.

                ...

                Thank you for any help on this issue.
                Correct me if I am wrong:

                1. You went through an OCL investigation in a different matter.
                2. Your husband's ex-wife is doing something similar to this parent.
                3. Your sister is upset that the father of their child wants to be involved.
                4. You and your husband have been brought almost to bankruptcy through conflict through the courts, OCL.

                You are looking for advice to your sister on how to parent the child?

                I would tell you to offer advice to your sister as if it were your husband's ex-wife.

                Unless the other parent in question is a danger to the child I would say:

                (a) That a child needs both parents equally involved in the child's life.
                (b) To offer full joint custody with a 50-50 access schedule on a 2-2-3 based schedule.
                (c) For your sister and mother to stop being "controlling" and that the child is not property or their possession.
                (d) Respect the other parent.
                (e) Let the child be loved and cared for by the other parent equally.
                (f) Stop this nonsense or the other parent may find this website, read some good advice, and make an application on a material change in circumstance and seek 50-50 full joint custody.
                (g) Post here herself if she wants advice from the community.

                Good Luck!
                Tayken

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Unevenplayingground View Post
                  They have a court order giving him one night a week and on night on the weekends. He has never, EVER, taken his daughter overnight.

                  She would let him take the child overnight, he makes the choice to just go to her house. He doesn't want to deal with the child overnight, but says he will if he can't go to her house anymore.
                  I know it's a variation on the court order but it seems if Mom was to suggest to Dad that daughter spend Friday and Saturday nights at his place he would still get his two nights,albeit extra hours, and she wouldn't have to worry about him hanging around her place in the evening(s).

                  Would also resolve:

                  1) Dad eating Mum's food
                  2) Dad can't "put Mum down" in front of daughter.
                  3) Daughter being less attached to Mum, making the bathing issues more pleasant.
                  4) Mum can date without worrying about Dad's presence.
                  5) Daughter doesn't have to get up at 5 a.m. on his workday.

                  They don't already have their own car seats?
                  I can't imagine a parent asking the court to order access when they don't have a car seat primed and ready.

                  If one doesn't, then whoever is short a car seat, should procure one ASAP.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Tayken View Post
                    Correct me if I am wrong:

                    1. You went through an OCL investigation in a different matter.
                    2. Your husband's ex-wife is doing something similar to this parent.
                    3. Your sister is upset that the father of their child wants to be involved.
                    4. You and your husband have been brought almost to bankruptcy through conflict through the courts, OCL.

                    You are looking for advice to your sister on how to parent the child?

                    I would tell you to offer advice to your sister as if it were your husband's ex-wife.

                    Unless the other parent in question is a danger to the child I would say:

                    (a) That a child needs both parents equally involved in the child's life.
                    (b) To offer full joint custody with a 50-50 access schedule on a 2-2-3 based schedule.
                    (c) For your sister and mother to stop being "controlling" and that the child is not property or their possession.
                    (d) Respect the other parent.
                    (e) Let the child be loved and cared for by the other parent equally.
                    (f) Stop this nonsense or the other parent may find this website, read some good advice, and make an application on a material change in circumstance and seek 50-50 full joint custody.
                    (g) Post here herself if she wants advice from the community.

                    Good Luck!
                    Tayken
                    1. yes?
                    2. no?
                    3. no, she is upset with the conditions he puts on her
                    4. ???

                    Yes, I am looking for advice for my sister.

                    a. agreed
                    b. he doesn't want 50/50, he, by choice has never taken the child for an overnight visit.
                    c. I don't know why you would say this? I must be missing something here.
                    d. my sister is respectful to the other parent, it is the other way around, and she can't control what he says to her??
                    e. Yes, agreed. but does she force the father to take his scheduled time, and since this isn't something she can do, does she continue to allow him into her home so he can have visitation on his terms?
                    f. Not sure what you are referring to? Not sure he would get 50/50 when he won't even take his child overnight, and never has??
                    g. thanks, I will pass this on to her for you.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by firhill View Post
                      They don't already have their own car seats?
                      I can't imagine a parent asking the court to order access when they don't have a car seat primed and ready.

                      If one doesn't, then whoever is short a car seat, should procure one ASAP.
                      I don't agree with this... there really is no reason to have two car seats... the car seats can go with the child...if Dad has the child, mom certainly does not need the car seat and vice versa. If this is a case where the mother has the child the majority of the time, then she should be providing the car seat...because isn't that what CS is for? (Yes I read he is under paying but it still stands that CS is for the child's needs and a child that young NEEDS a car seat)

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by firhill View Post
                        I know it's a variation on the court order but it seems if Mom was to suggest to Dad that daughter spend Friday and Saturday nights at his place he would still get his two nights,albeit extra hours, and she wouldn't have to worry about him hanging around her place in the evening(s).

                        Would also resolve:

                        1) Dad eating Mum's food
                        2) Dad can't "put Mum down" in front of daughter.
                        3) Daughter being less attached to Mum, making the bathing issues more pleasant.
                        4) Mum can date without worrying about Dad's presence.
                        5) Daughter doesn't have to get up at 5 a.m. on his workday.

                        They don't already have their own car seats?
                        I can't imagine a parent asking the court to order access when they don't have a car seat primed and ready.

                        If one doesn't, then whoever is short a car seat, should procure one ASAP.
                        I agree with what you are saying, but maybe one weekend for the mom to enjoy the child. The weekdays are always so rush, rush, i'm sure even one night on a weekend for mom would be fair?

                        I agree with the car seat, and I actually called CAS (the equivalent to that in NS) and they agreed it is the father's responsibility.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Unevenplayingground View Post
                          I agree with the car seat, and I actually called CAS (the equivalent to that in NS) and they agreed it is the father's responsibility.
                          Very petty thing to do if you ask me...does Mom really need the car seat when the child is with Dad? To me this is creating unneeded conflict.

                          My bf's ex has gotten in 2 car accidents... both times, we bought new booster seats because the old ones could not be used... we never kept them from her, we exchanged them when we exchanged the children. We did this for about 8 months, until she received car seats from some family members.

                          Just seems really childish to say "this car seat is mine, buy your own"

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Berner_Faith View Post
                            I don't agree with this... there really is no reason to have two car seats... the car seats can go with the child...if Dad has the child, mom certainly does not need the car seat and vice versa. If this is a case where the mother has the child the majority of the time, then she should be providing the car seat...because isn't that what CS is for? (Yes I read he is under paying but it still stands that CS is for the child's needs and a child that young NEEDS a car seat)
                            I originally didn't mention the cs/childcare because I took it as a separate issue. Even if the father doesn't pay, he still has a right to see his daughter.


                            I was on the fence about the car seat. If he does take the child through the week, when he drops the child off at daycare how would the mom get the seat back? The daycare will not accommodate, so she would have no way to get the child home. So I called the equivalent to CAS in NS and they said he should have his own seat if he wants to transport his daughter in his car. Now the other issue is, the seat belts don't work properly in his car. I should have mentioned this originally, should my sister be responsible to drive her daughter to the father's house because of this?

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Berner_Faith View Post
                              Very petty thing to do if you ask me...does Mom really need the car seat when the child is with Dad? To me this is creating unneeded conflict.

                              My bf's ex has gotten in 2 car accidents... both times, we bought new booster seats because the old ones could not be used... we never kept them from her, we exchanged them when we exchanged the children. We did this for about 8 months, until she received car seats from some family members.

                              Just seems really childish to say "this car seat is mine, buy your own"
                              Sorry, I think you are missing a piece, the day he has to pick up and drop the child off at daycare, my sister has no way of getting him the seat. So he really would need the second seat.

                              The father thinks my sister should meet him at pick up and drop off for these days to get him the seat, which seems a bit ridicules. A lot of extra work for somebody when they can just go buy a new seat for their own car.
                              Last edited by Unevenplayingground; 10-26-2012, 04:11 PM. Reason: forgot info

                              Comment

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