CCTB & Section 7 expenses

[ONTMOMMA]

When calculating Section 7 division of expenses, the expense must first be reduced by CCTB and then divided??

Can anyone advise why this is so? It wasn't until my final go-round at court was I made aware of this, and I'm finding it a little confusing.

Exactly why should my ex (income 80G) benefit at all from a CCTB that I receive only because my income is significantly lower (30G)? I receive the CCTB because of MY INCOME, shouldn't that amount be used to my MY SHARE of S.7 - and not applied to his? I don't even think he'd qualify for CCTB with his income.

[Mess]

Where did you come up with that formula?
Section 7 should be based on total income, which is your line 150 and then add in things like CCTB that don't usually show on your income tax. Then compare incomes, figure out what percentage each pays.

Example: You earn 30k, receive, say, 6k in CCTB for a total of 36k. He earns 80k. Your combined income is 116k. Your percentage is 29%, his is 71%.

[ONTMOMMA]

Where did you come up with that formula?
Section 7 should be based on total income, which is your line 150 and then add in things like CCTB that don't usually show on your income tax. Then compare incomes, figure out what percentage each pays.

Example: You earn 30k, receive, say, 6k in CCTB for a total of 36k. He earns 80k. Your combined income is 116k. Your percentage is 29%, his is 71%.

That isn't how my lawyer explained it at all. She stated that it was:

EXPENSES - CCTB= AMOUNT to be split. Amount to be split then divided according to income.

Basically, she told me going after S.7 expenses not paid in last 5 years would be insignificant since my CCTB covered the majority of the expenses.

Hmmm....

[ONTMOMMA]

Where did you come up with that formula?
Section 7 should be based on total income, which is your line 150 and then add in things like CCTB that don't usually show on your income tax. Then compare incomes, figure out what percentage each pays.

Example: You earn 30k, receive, say, 6k in CCTB for a total of 36k. He earns 80k. Your combined income is 116k. Your percentage is 29%, his is 71%.

Mess - Do I include my CS in that formula. Ie. Income + CCTB + CS?

That definitely makes a lot more economic sense.

[HammerDad]

Mess - Do I include my CS in that formula. Ie. Income + CCTB + CS?

No, it is based off of grosse income.

Not sure, Your lawyer may be taking into consideration the Child Fitness Credits you may be entitled to. Because that amount needs to be deducted from the costs of the activities prior to the costs being split.

Using Mess numbers:

Him = $80k
You = $30k + $6K = 36K

He pays 71% of the costs of extraordinary expenses. Those expenses could be child care etc. But he is only obligated to pay 71% of the ACTUAL cost of the expense. Meaning, lets say the expense is $500 (the max fitness tax credit per year). You claim this on your taxes and receive a $75 rebate from it. The actual cost of the activity is $425, which your ex would pay 71% of, or $301.75.

I am not sure if you are strictly looking at child care or other extraordinary expenses.

[Mess]

The Federal Child Support Guidelines: Step-by-Step

This is the most complete explanation you will find in one place, you have to read the sections carefully, look at the worksheets carefully, and read the line-by-line instructions. Even then, it doesn't specificly mention CCTB. It does mention the UCCB.

I believe your lawyer is interpreting line 27, which is total amount of subsidies for expenses received, as including the CCTB. My lawyer interprets CCTB as going into the Total Income line 1. The CCTB is not a directed credit (meaning it is not applied according to a particular expense) and there is no warrant for including it on line 27. Line 27 is for things like daycare subsidies, and line 31 is for income tax credits, like using your daycare receipts.

As per worksheet 1, child support and spousal support received are deducted from total income (if included in total income.) Notice that child and spousal support payments are not deducted from the first worksheet. Spousal support is deducted on worksheet d, e, or f depending on your circumstances.

It's pretty complicated. I believe your lawyer has made a critical error. Either that or mine has, but in all my conversations here on the board I have never heard from another parent that they are expected to utilize the CCTB the way your lawyer describes.

If I were you I would get a second opinion from a more experienced lawyer, or contact the Department of Justice. *I say that because you will have a heck of a time convincing your lawyer that they are wrong.

[ONTMOMMA]

No, it is based off of grosse income.

Not sure, Your lawyer may be taking into consideration the Child Fitness Credits you may be entitled to. Because that amount needs to be deducted from the costs of the activities prior to the costs being split.

Using Mess numbers:

Him = $80k
You = $30k + $6K = 36K

He pays 71% of the costs of extraordinary expenses. Those expenses could be child care etc. But he is only obligated to pay 71% of the ACTUAL cost of the expense. Meaning, lets say the expense is $500 (the max fitness tax credit per year). You claim this on your taxes and receive a $75 rebate from it. The actual cost of the activity is $425, which your ex would pay 71% of, or $301.75.

I am not sure if you are strictly looking at child care or other extraordinary expenses.

The expenses I've tried to claim through FRO (and had returned because of a consent issue) is all daycare expenses. I provide a paltry sum to my parents weekly to cover expenses ($50/week - transport to and from school, breakfast daily and evening meal 3 or 4 times a week). They're both retired and their willingness to help out wherever and whenever is so appreciated - I won't let it actually COST them money. But, over the summer, due to some issues with my daughter (and my ex's objection to her being with her grandparents all day in the summers) I had her enrolled in daycamps throughout the summer. My lawyer indicated that would be considered childcare.

At this time, I can't even be bothered to try and claim sports fees, etc. at this time....I'd just like contribution to childcare.....especially the summer camp fees since a. ex hasn't bothered to utilize any access since last week of school. Even dumped her for his week of vac - which ended up costing me MORE in daycare, and b. I had her involved in daycamp activities for both her own benefit and to appease him. The agreement he signed in May stated he was to be picking her up from school every Wed and the Fridays he has access, to return to school Thurs am and the Monday of his weekend access. I, of course, cover those expenses as well since he can't be bothered to show up.

FLIC has advised I need to have the order changed to reflect that consent isn't required for these expenses - especially daycare. However, my lawyer at the time of signing stated the agreement was sufficient to have S.7 expenses covered since the statement "consent shall not be reasonably withheld".

I'm beginning to think my lawyer has been one of my bigger issues.

[Berner_Faith]

The reason this may be returned is because your parents are not technically a babysitter or a daycare. In order to claim babysitting/daycare fees, the facility has to be licensed, or at the very least your parents must be reporting that as income.

At lease that is how it works in our case. The ex was using her sister to babysit and expected bf to contribute (even though when they were together, they never paid her sister, just sent money here and there). If your parents are not reporting this income, there is nothing to cross reference to and your claim will be denied.

[Mess]

Daycare is automatically a section 7 expense according to legislation. You shouldn't need consent. Clause regarding consent not being unreasonably withheld should only refer to things like sports and recreation costs. I actually think the FLIC interpretation is looney here.

In any case, you are going to have to get a motion order to get your ex to pay if they are being stubborn. Get the language clarified at the same time. Go for retroactive payments. Go for costs.

[ONTMOMMA]

The reason this may be returned is because your parents are not technically a babysitter or a daycare. In order to claim babysitting/daycare fees, the facility has to be licensed, or at the very least your parents must be reporting that as income.

At lease that is how it works in our case. The ex was using her sister to babysit and expected bf to contribute (even though when they were together, they never paid her sister, just sent money here and there). If your parents are not reporting this income, there is nothing to cross reference to and your claim will be denied.

My parents provide receipts and claim the income on my mother's income tax at year end. We came up with the $50 because it doesn't affect my mom's bottom line on Income Tax, I whole heartedly believe they deserve much more. It's a paltry sum for what they provide me. Any other daycare option wouldn't have the flexibility (dad take my girl to docs, dentist, other appts as necessary - they also provide care for sick days, PD days). For two years dad even drove to pick up my girl from daycare to take to JK/SK and then pick her back up again. It was over 20k each way.....)

[ONTMOMMA]

Daycare is automatically a section 7 expense according to legislation. You shouldn't need consent. Clause regarding consent not being unreasonably withheld should only refer to things like sports and recreation costs. I actually think the FLIC interpretation is looney here.

In any case, you are going to have to get a motion order to get your ex to pay if they are being stubborn. Get the language clarified at the same time. Go for retroactive payments. Go for costs.

I sent FRO the section in our agreement where it states that and did say that withholding consent for childcare would be considered unreasonable. I can't actually get consent anyway, ex hangs up on me, auto-deletes emails from me and has only called twice since June to speak to his daughter.

[ONTMOMMA]

Thanks Mess/HammerDad. I too though FLIC was looney. I thought to myself "why do I need consent for daycare?"

Does FRO contact the paying parent to discuss these expenses prior to requesting the payment for them? My expect my ex to have kicked up a huge fuss over the expenses for the summer months - as he has never paid anything towards daycare ever.

[ONTMOMMA]

So, I think I'll submit to FRO the expenses for the summer months calculated as per the link provided by Mess. When submitting the expenses I'll include the legislation that Mess describes above.

In my court agreement May 30th - I agreed to forgo all back expenses (primarily due to legal advice - which I now see as probably incorrect). He hasn't made a contribution to anything S.7 related in years, and has continually taken advantage of my parents in the daycare area when he was using his access. Which is why I've asked my parents to now provide receipts for what I was giving them, so he can begin to pay his fair share of the expense. But, the bigger amounts were definitely the full-time daycamps. She was in daycamps for a total of 5 weeks - one of which was his vacation week where he didn't take her. The least I paid for daycamp was $85/week (two weeks at that rate). I also paid $125 for a community centre daycamp program and then $330 for a horse-riding daycamp program. Another program I had one week free use of (thanks to C&FS social workers who were of immense help in dealing with the ex). Without what I paid to my parents, I paid out $625 for daycare in just the summer alone. He has refused to pay any of it - or FRO is refusing......

[Mess]

I have had only limited dealings with FRO. My understanding is that they will only enforce specific amounts from a court order. If you order states that you share expenses, or something like that, they won't enforce this. If your order states that the father shall pay xxx.xx per month as a share of section 7 expenses, then they will enforce. I have never heard that you can just provide amounts/receipts to FRO and they will collect. They are not set up to work like that.

Typically you would file an amending agreement or a consent order each year after tax time, work out the current child support amount, and work out the section 7 for the year following, come up with an amount, and have that specified in your agreement. You file the agreement with the courts and then FRO can enforce that specific amount.

To just present them with receipts would require that you give a full financial disclosure to the FRO, they receive a full financial disclosure from the ex, the FRO verifies both incomes and calculates the percentage of expenses, and then collects the amounts month-by-month. I think this is what you are describing? It certainly doesn't work that way.

[dad2bandm]

If you haven't factored it into your numbers already, as of yet, the UCCB should be taken off any of the "daycare" expense numbers you listed. (I'm assuming you get that, since your name is ONTMAMA).