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Joint custody, and the CCTB. Order dictates Mom?

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  • Joint custody, and the CCTB. Order dictates Mom?

    I have joint custody of my daughter. Back when the order was near being settled on, the ex's lawyer threw in a clause saying CCTB will be paid to Mom.

    I know it was Mom who insisted on throwing that in, right before we were ready to sign, because she knows I share CCTB with my other child's mom. When it came to my daughter, I guess she was not agreeable to it working the same way with her. I told my lawyer at the time, that I don't think that's right, as I have child care expenses too, and we have joint custody with my daughter being with me much of the time as well, but he sided with the ex on that one, saying "mom" always gets it - that's the rule, and I should just forget about it. He didn't seem too aware of the newer shared eligibility CCTB polices with CRA at the time. (I wish I had found these forums back then...as I know my lawyer should have done a few things more, for my agreement). When I showed him the shared eligibility stuff afterwards, then he simply thought Mom would argue on it anyway, and say that she has our daughter much more time, since she was a baby then.

    Anyway, I just wanted to sign, and get the ordeal over with at the time, since my lawyer was not going to help me on that, and I was getting "joint custody" with an order, that I thought would have some teeth behind it, for making sure my access happened as it should.

    So I have a joint custody order, that says Mom is to get CCTB.
    So, for the last 3 to 4 years, that's how it's been. I have my daughter a good 40% at least, likely a bit more than that, when I factor in holidays and such. I pay full table support.

    During these 4 years, I have had numerous issues with "mom" ignoring parts of our order (she's never exchanged tax returns, I give her mine each year; interferring with access, hostile communication in general, including future threats of court to me, etc. Some of which, I have posted here.

    I've stuck to our order on my part, to the T, because I wanted to be able to say "I follow our agreement" if it ever came to court. And I have. And I figured, if I applied for the CCTB, she would argue and fight over it, saying that she has daughter more time. And then of course, it's a clause in our order.

    I've dealt with "shared eligibility" before, and have talked to CRA, and they have told me I should be getting the CCTB as well (I didn't give them my name, as I didn't want them to start enforcing that right away - at the time, I was trying to keep the peace). They also advised me, that they are not bound by court orders - they simply use them in aiding with their decision. My daughter is also in school now too, so that means she is there, and not with mom or me, during those times. I think that evens out our time even more in this case.

    The CCTB is supposed to follow the child, and our child also lives with me.

    I haven't rocked the boat with the ex on this, during this last while, because I wasn't sure how the clause in our order would affect me, and I was always keeping the peace. That doesn't help though.

    Given the other order issues she has been causing the past while, I wonder it it would be good to pursue the CCTB now. We'll be in court at some point, I'm sure, as the issues never get addressed. I would like the CCTB to be shared, as I'm the one who signs our daugter up for activities and such too, which Mom has not been splitting on. Swimming lessons, ballet, etc. Those are extra funds, I can be using for my daughter, for the purpose they are meant for.

    If CRA was to start sharing the CCTB, would a judge slam me, on our order? Can they even? I wonder, if this should be part of a motion, to update our order, as our order needs updating anyway with the other issues I have run into.

  • #2
    It's not enforceable in family court. If you have the child more than 40% and can prove it, then yes you should be notifying cra. That is you legal obligation. You merely inform CRA of the change in circumstances and they make the decision.

    This will start a shit storm with your ex.

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    • #3
      She starts a "$hit storm" every month or two anyway by not following our order so that would be nothing new.

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      • #4
        she'll start a bigger shit storm.

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        • #5
          /popcorn

          She'll bitch. Not much she can do anyway, its not an enforceable clause. Judge might slap him on the wrists, but the judge can't reverse a cra decision. And if he can pull it off it helps solidify argument on 40% custody.

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          • #6
            what I mean by the bigger shit storm is that she'll incite bigger conflict in all sorts of other ways, some that you never would have thought of. At least that's my experience whenever something doesn't go the ex's way. The ex retaliates in several ways.

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            • #7
              I seem to remember someone (Mess?) posting that who claims CCTB is defined by CRA rules, and CRA is NOT bound to act according to any family law court order. This I think is a fairly recent change, where they have clarified that CCTB claiming must be split evenly between 2 parents with shared custody.

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              • #8
                Yes the law changed in 2011.

                Previously parents each received the full CCTB for 6 months out of the year.

                Starting in 2011, the CCTB amount is paid to both parents each month based on their income but cut in half.

                You will be expected to produce documentation including an SA that shows the children's schedule so that you can prove you have 40%+ custody.

                This same scenario happened to my new partner this year. She was paying all of the childcare expenses and her ex agreed in writing that she should use the full CCTB for this purpose. In a later disagreement, he filed shared custody with CRA and they accepted the change in status and reassessed my partner for thousands.

                So she paid thousands in childcare on behalf of her ex using his share of CCTB, then he turned around and clawed it all back through CRA, getting completely off the hook for a year's worth of daycare expenses. Nice.

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                • #9
                  CRA has their own rules and doesn't really care about any elements of family law.

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                  • #10
                    Yeah, I'm familiar with the way the CRA handles the split of CCTB, as I have already been doing that with my first child, and his Mom. You're right, it used to rotate on a 6 month basis, but now each parent gets it every month throughout the year, but you're right, it's split in half between the two parents.

                    When it comes to my daughter, I guess I was just wondering about it being snuck into our order, that it states Mom will get it. As others have already said, CRA doesn't have to follow an order, and they determine the split based off tax law. My feeling, is that her lawyer threw that in the order at the time, at her request, knowing it can't really be enforced, and figured I wouldn't want to "go against the order". Which he's right - as I follow our order to the T.

                    Mom has flaunted the order whenever she feels like it, so I guess I would put my 1 transgression (if a judge even cared), about splitting the CCTB according to CRA, against her contempt/denied access occurances any day.

                    In looking into some of this, I have actually found a tax correction as well, for a past year, so that was good. It wouldn't have taken me 4 years to see that, if Mom would exchange tax info, like we are supposed to.

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                    • #11
                      If he does this, what she will do is start limiting his parenting time to just under the 40% threshold, either by outright denying parenting time or limiting it to exactly what the order provides (should the OP be getting extra time).

                      It sucks, but that is likely what will happen. He would then have to fight her in court to get back to the amount of parenting time he had before. This isn't impossible and likely an easy case. But it would take time and money to get there...

                      Cost/benefit analysis with this one. Yeah, you'd share in the CCTB. But what would cost you should your ex start messing with your parenting time and you have to take her to court?

                      Is your parenting time according to the agreement 40% or greater? If so, I may push it. But if it isn't written in the agreement with 40% or greater and you've just been getting extra time, I would hold off document the time and then determine if it is worth it.

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                      • #12
                        And I guess, that is dependant on how to calculate the time. CRA only seemed to care before, about the overnights when I went through this, with my son. A simple calendar was enough to show them then. So if we go strictly by overnights that my daughter sleeps and stays at my house, I have at least 13 nights out of each month, minimum. 13/30= 43. 13/31=42 13/28=46

                        And then of course, if one factors in the holiday/vacation time she spends with me as well, throughout the year, I think I can safely say, she's with me the 40% minimum.

                        She's already interferred with access before, so I am used to that, and have it documented. So even if I leave things alone as is, that has been a problem already, and will be again I'm sure.
                        Last edited by dad2bandm; 10-04-2012, 09:17 AM. Reason: Typo.

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by NBDad View Post
                          /popcorn

                          She'll bitch. Not much she can do anyway, its not an enforceable clause. Judge might slap him on the wrists, but the judge can't reverse a cra decision. And if he can pull it off it helps solidify argument on 40% custody.
                          To further NBDad's statement that it is not an eforceable clause the reason being is that the Superior Court, Family Law and other courts do not have jurisdiction over the CRA. Finally, CRA won't be a party to the case in family law so as an independent organization at a federal level they would have to be a party to the case in any family law proceeding and the family court won't set president over the CRA. It would be a landfall of complexity, confusion and set off a nightmare.

                          All you have to do with the CRA is to send a detailed letter setting forward the particulars of the access arrangements of the children to be at minimum 40% and they will do what is right. Don't just send a one pager. Attach schedules (court orders), access schedules, communications from the other parent in support of the 40% minimum, and any other cogent and relevant evidence.

                          Custody is not the determining factor for CRA it is access time.

                          Furthermore, stick to OVER NIGHTS (times at which the children spend an over night with you) as the basis for providing the cogent and relevant evidence that the children reside with you 40% of the time.

                          Furthermore, the same applies to filling dependent children for income tax purposes.

                          Again, DETAILS are the key when dealing with the CRA. Write the communications as if you are writing to a grade 8 student. Spell it all out for them in detail and don't be vague about anything.

                          The people who are successful with CRA write their correspondence in an "affidavit" style. Facts, not beliefs etc... Number paragraphs etc.

                          Finally, remember that the date of separation is DIFFERENT to the CRA than to Family Court. The date of separation to the CRA in accordance with their Rules is the date for which the two parents no longer resided in the same residence.

                          Good Luck!
                          Tayken

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                          • #14
                            So does the CRA look at a signed seperation agreement that says "joint custody with 40%" but there is a clause where mom gets all CCTB and UCCB. From what I am reading the CRA doesn't care about the agreement clause and will ignore it. Is this really the case?

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                            • #15
                              so let's pretend the poster claims the tax benefit even though their agreement says that she will claim it. just because he can with CRA. if she took him to court saying now the children are unfairly disadvantaged and that this "income" was part of their agreement, and now he owes her more money out of his pocket to compensate since he created this problem. wouldn't this be a reasonable expectation (assuming ex was high conflict and stupid enough to spend or threaten to spend $1000s on recouping 100s). isn't honouring the agreement/court order necessary, for family court?

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