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  • Mediation successes out there?

    Hi there,
    Spouse and I decided to try mediation instead of going through lawyers. First meeting will be this coming Thursday.
    Actually, our mediator also practices family law but has been doing mediation for the last 9 years. She has a good reputation in the community.

    Does anyone out there have/know of any positive outcomes with mediators? Were you satisfied or dissatisfied?

    If you used a mediator, was s/he also a lawyer?

    Thank you.

  • #2
    Mine started positive...ended bad...unfortunately had to go via lawyers and waste money. My separation agreement says we have to mediate before going to court...now I have to head to court bc mine won't mediate. I will slap him with the costs bc of it.
    If you can communicate effectively then go for it.
    Are you splitting the costs equally? I only ask because there are mediation services that base their per hour costs on your income.....
    Good luck.

    Comment


    • #3
      We used a very good Family Law lawyer, we could not settle.

      This has been repeated over and over, 'Both parties have to be willing to compromise, or it won't work.' In my opinion, if you have not been able to work it out this far, mediation may not work.

      Just because your mediator is a family law lawyer, doesn't mean it will be better. They are not there to give legal advice, you are still expected to get that advice elsewhere. Your lawyer can either attend, or you can consult with them before.

      Know where the issues may fall if you were in court, and then know how far away from that you are willing to compromise.

      If you find that you are scheduling yet another and then another mediation appointment, and issues are not becoming settled, ask yourself why.

      In my experience, this was because ex. was not willing to see things any other way but his way. The mediator spent a lot of time trying to redirect his thinking.

      I became frustrated but was assured that we were close on the issues being discussed and we would settle soon. It didn't happen, and by this time too many hours had gone bye. In hind site, I wish I had pulled the plug sooner rather than later. I knew where the ex. was headed and let the mediator convince me she could do different. If we just let each other know what our fears were, we could get beyond the stale mate. It didn't work and in my opinion, just made negotiating worse.

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by blackbirdTRK View Post
        Hi there,
        Spouse and I decided to try mediation instead of going through lawyers. First meeting will be this coming Thursday.
        Actually, our mediator also practices family law but has been doing mediation for the last 9 years. She has a good reputation in the community.

        Does anyone out there have/know of any positive outcomes with mediators? Were you satisfied or dissatisfied?

        If you used a mediator, was s/he also a lawyer?

        Thank you.
        Mediation outcomes are hard to find because the result of good mediation is settlement and not going to court. A lot of the questions and focus from people coming to this site is about court. I wish there was more about the positive results of a mediated settlement.

        This is primarily because you really can't take allegations of abuse (child and intimate partner abuse) to mediation. The "power imbalance" could set a stage for continued issues (or so the theory states). If that is the case then a mediated-arbitrated solution should be sought. Or arbitration.

        The better alternative to "traditional mediation/arbitration" would be collaborative law.

        Mediation success is based on the two parties involved and the compromises they can make to meet a resolution and settlement.

        There are only three situations in which something cannot be mediated:

        1. One or both parties to the mediation are mentally ill.
        2. One or both parties to the mediation are substance abusers.
        3. One or both parties to the mediation are mentally ill and/or substance abusers.

        Some would state that being "unreasonable" is not a mental illness. Being exceptionally unreasonable, having unrealistic expectations and no grounding in reality could be the result of a long standing mental illness (disorder).

        In family law matters I am a strong proponent of mediators requiring a clinical background in mental health (being registered with an actual college). Yes, extreme but, I am of the opinion that a large portion of the challenges facing families in transition are mental health related and not legal in nature.

        There are mediators who have clinical backgrounds. I would recommend a mediator who has a clinical background in psychology generally. But, again this is based on what issues are being mediated. My position on this would be strongest for issues of mediating custody and access of children that the mediator should have a clinical designation. When it comes to pure financial "stuff" (equalization etc...) then the mediator should have a CA designation professionally in my opinion.

        The success of mediation is based on the compromises both parties are prepared to make to settle matters.

        Good Luck!
        Tayken

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by frustratedwithex View Post
          If we just let each other know what our fears were, we could get beyond the stale mate. It didn't work and in my opinion, just made negotiating worse.
          Anxieties" are best addressed by a mediator who has a firm understanding of mental health and anxiety... Not a lawyer.

          People often use "fear" to define an "anxiety" which isn't totally correct.

          ... fear is frequently related to the specific behaviours of escape and avoidance, whereas anxiety is the result of threats which are perceived to be uncontrollable or unavoidable.
          If someone has "fear" and is expressing "fears" mediation is not appropriate in my opinion. If the mediator is focusing on "fears" then, they have no grounding or understanding of the terminology they are using and thus will only create more confusion and "fear" because they lack the professional skills to determine what is a fear and/or anxiety and/or worry in their clients and resolve the issue.

          Comment


          • #6
            I think I was a success.

            My ex and I came to an agreement. I believe had I went to court I could've been more successful, but I had to weigh the financial relaties of a protracted custody battle and what, if any, benefits I may win.

            We mediated out 1 agreement and an amending agreement in accordance with my daughters age and we've also worked out a 2nd amendment outside of mediation. Each amendment provided me with more parenting time and concessions from the ex.

            She may have gotten more up front, but I have been successful clawing back some of my concessions to get a fairly balanced agreement. There are still things I'd like to change in the agreement, but I technically have been getting those concessions already. My ex is in a good mood and been accomodating. If I push for things I already have, she may push back and I could lose whatever goodwill I built up so far.

            Comment


            • #7
              Tayken - Sometimes you have too much of an academic approach.

              The point I was trying to make was to be prepared to first compromise, and second, to pull the plug before too much time is spent with no issues becoming settled or agreed on.

              The mediator used the word 'fear'. Maybe the appropriate term should have been 'anxiety', I don't know.

              That conversation ended up along the lines of, the ex., "I'm afraid I won't be able to use my private golf membership enough, and therefore I will be deprived of a good quality of life."

              Me, "I'm afraid I will be eating cat food and living in a cardboard box in retirement."

              In my opinion, it made negotiating worse.

              I don't know if that means either one of us has a mental illness. I would now describe my ex. as high conflict. If it wasn't clear when we started mediation, it was definitely clear at the end of it. I really did believe we could come to an agreement or I wouldn't haven't asked for mediation to begin with.

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by blackbirdTRK View Post
                Spouse and I decided to try mediation instead of going through lawyers.
                The fact that you and the ex have agreed to try at all bodes well for further agreement later during the mediation process.

                Originally posted by blackbirdTRK View Post
                Actually, our mediator also practices family law but has been doing mediation for the last 9 years. She has a good reputation in the community.

                Does anyone out there have/know of any positive outcomes with mediators? Were you satisfied or dissatisfied?

                If you used a mediator, was s/he also a lawyer?
                My ex and I did mediation, and it worked out extremely well. We both focused on making our separation as smooth as possible, looked for ways to save money during the process (didn't have any assets professionally evaluated, for example, just estimated), and kept focused on having things turn out with the greatest stability for the children during the process. However, I do wish I had discovered this forum before we'd finished, as things might have turned out even better. In our ignorance, we let the mediator guide us a bit too much, I think, and she was a traditional EoW for the Dad kind of person. We just went "oh, okay, this is how it's done, I guess," and accepted it, as we were both pretty much still in shock that we were separating at all. Since then, we have mutually agreed to deviate from our agreement.

                Our mediator was a lawyer. I think the knowledge of family law is pretty important to the process since it's a legal document begin drafted up. Knowledge of psychology and accounting could also be tremendously useful, as mentioned.

                The mediation cost under $1k for us. However, I spent many times more on my independent legal advice afterwards, as I did not know how to control my lawyer and he liked to endlessly tinker with the agreement without explaining his billing until way too late. So I would recommend mediation wholeheartedly, but remind you to do your own research as well, and my advice about lawyers would be to find a good fit and watch his time spent like a hawk.

                Don't go into it with the mindset that you are out to screw your ex. Don't go into it with the mindset that you need to protect yourself from being screwed. Go into it with the mindset that you want a result that maximizes the benefits to the children. Did it benefit the children?

                You have to love your children more than you hate your ex. Repeat it as a mantra together before you begin. Leave the hate outside at the door, and bring the love for your children in with you.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Thank you everyone for your input. It sounds like there may be success with mediation out there...and maybe the long story short is that it is worth a try if we are both willing to work together for the sake of the children.

                  I am now prepared to try not to let the mediation drag on too long as I can see now that guiding/redirecting is always a possibility. I also like the tip about how the costs will be split --- I presumed 50/50 but it may also be proportional to income. Never thought about that!

                  Collaborative law is another avenue...did some research on that and decided to try mediation instead. We might take a stab at that if this does not work.

                  Fortunately, neither of us are high conflict or have substance abuse problems or are abusers etc...

                  I like the way RIOE suggested to repeat it over and over: Love the children more than you hate your ex. Leave the hate at the door and bring the love for your children with you.

                  Thanks everyone!
                  I am a newbie here and am learning so much from this site.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    I would recommend Collaborative law if you aren't high conflict. I spoke last week with my lawyer (who is a certified Collaborative lawyer) and he said simply that if two people can come to an agreement, have the lawyers put it in legalese, they will both save money. The trick is that both parties have to want to resolved things and move on with their lives.

                    When I initially filed for divorce emotions were naturally very high. We sat down with our respective lawyers and attempted to come to an agreement on some things. It was a total waste of time and money. We simply had too many people (relatives, etc.) involved in our divorce. My ex's sister and g/f had bunched together and made sure that my ex and I did not get together to try to work out any details. I recall that before that first 4-way meeting my lawyer had to call his lawyer and request that the g/f not come within a 1-mile radius of our meeting (as the girlfriend had then accused me of threatening her and was in the process of trying to have a peace bond put on me - I had innocently left a garage door opener in my ex's mailbox when I discovered it on my son's car seat). Yes it was a very crazy time and I had to watch my back. If my ex or his g/f weren't stealing things from my property they were doing something else.

                    My lawyer tried many times to negotiate. My ex was bolstered up by his "side" and represented by aggressive, non-productive lawyers. We then went on to at least agree to a binding judicial review (JDR) which I believe is only available in Alberta. 9 months later we were divorced. My ex has dragged me to court many, many times in the past 2 yrs unsuccessfully trying to get things overturned. The lawyers he hires keep telling him he has grounds to have things overturned. He is now quite frustrated that he listened to this advice.

                    I recently met with my ex and was quite astonished to find out that he clearly was given very poor legal advice by the 3 lawyers he had hired throughout our ordeal. For example, his current lawyer has told him that he can get the SS overturned and has encouraged him to quit work.

                    So here we are now with many issues still unresolved and both with large legal bills. I believe that had we been able to have found a mediator, kept the g/f and family out of the picture whatsoever, we could have found some common ground and resolved many issues.

                    If you can keep people out of your divorce and keep the lines of communication open you will likely save yourself lots and lots of anxiety and money.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Mediation success requires buyin from both partners

                      Insight is encouraged, so feel free to chime in...

                      My mediation and lawyer consultations investment has unfortunately not resulted in a signed Separation Agreement, as my ex refused to sign the final, final version due to 1. May 2011: she didn't agree with my interpretation of it, and now 2. September 2012: she feels it was written in my favour and doesn't agree with it.

                      I countered that the mediator we used is acted as a referee and did not take sides. Furthermore, she had the opportunity to review it with her lawyer, make changes then sign off on it. This was not done, and she has selectively used the SA as justification for her arguments went convenient, and when it is against her, she said it is not legally binding and she didn't agree to it, which is why she didn't sign it. Have your cake and eat it too mentality is frustrating...
                      Last edited by Mess; 09-25-2012, 05:11 PM. Reason: Split post to have it's own thread http://www.ottawadivorce.com/forum/f4/hockey-kids-13180/

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Like arabian, we are older, kids are out of university/college or in my case nearly so - we all love our children, show it in different ways and it does not help much when you are trying to resolve truly property related issues. Communicate? my ex couldn't for the majority of our marriage beyond she wanted children, wanted to be a stay at home mom (which didn't work out for her given our family circumstance) and not much more than that...

                        But her idea was to take half of what was left and walk away - we broke down when I decided to type, "How do you get divorced in Ontario?" From there it went down, down down - Today I understand as she did many things which she doesn't want to face now as it will cost her in equalization. Mediation? I thought it was because we were willing to sit, listen, negotiate fairly (maybe with mediator guidance) and my ex did nothing to prepare, nothing except for me to decide this needs to get done before it gets worse - I did our financials, yes I did hers as well (she didn't understand??? she is a smart lady by the way).

                        Mediation lasted maybe six minutes - five of those was her screaming. Mediator did his job, we both had our first session alone to explain th eprocess and discuss our needs (perhaps could be fears as well of the unknown) but, but -But!!! She could discuss anything before and she screamed every time it was attempted - mediation turned out to be no different. If both parties do not want to learn at least the basics of the laws to which we need to meet as we went through the process - it will go nowhere. If you can't sit accross the kitchen table and table your positions, perhaps begin the negotiation to somewhere in the middle then mediation will not work.

                        But as many have put here if one side is at a disadvantage - mediation is said not to work, even the mediator pointed this out. At least our mediator charged off of income (for me it was a nominal $5 a session). I was willing to negotiate to a point but you can't negotiate when the other party has one position - HERS!! When it came time and we had a chance to at least get some stuff done we failed (I thanked the mediator when he said he would not bill me for the worst session he ever witnessed in his career) and now a year later we are not much further ahead.

                        Arbritation was brought up by my ex at the very beginning - just after failed mediation - was not hard for me to not want to spend money on that - if the mediator said my medical and all the disability issues was beyond his scope..... and reading so much with lawyers not understanding/or do not have the experience to represent the depth of these issues, judges are hit and miss (taking a very good "lawyer or self rep" to help the presiding judge make fair rulings). I just told my ex that if she could find that arbritator, where their decisions are final, that could actually have that knowledge - but my ex never got back to me......

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          bthom, I split your post and started a new thread for your hockey question. I think you will get more relevant responses that way.

                          http://www.ottawadivorce.com/forum/f...ey-kids-13180/

                          Comment

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