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  • Third Party Disclosure

    Hello All

    Does anyone went through in Family Court requesting Internet Service Provider to provide IP information base on IP address ?

    I will need it from Google and Bell.

    It's looks like there is one big decision is coming up to be posted on CanLii (it's not like my previous two was not big enough...) but it may take a while

    Thank you
    WB

  • #2
    Cripes I'd imagine. Google is going to fight the crap out of something like that I'd imagine. Why in the world would one need IP info?

    Comment


    • #3
      Good Luck WorkingDad - I wonder if ie: Bell would need to be subpoeaned (omg I can't spell that word!!) for that info. The burden of this should not be yours, considering all the other hurdles you've faced and overcome. I hope the info you require will not be too hard to collect. Great full time JOB this is, eh?? :s The "pay" sucks, that's for sure.

      Comment


      • #4
        WD: if it's the OP that's requesting it - let them go get it.. Or try to. I often felt like I did nothing but tell the truth, yet I had to prove that I was being truthful AND prove the EX was not being truthful. It appeared that he just sat back, relaxed, and lied without a care in the world. This has been especially true in my "other" matter.

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by NBDad View Post
          Cripes I'd imagine. Google is going to fight the crap out of something like that I'd imagine. Why in the world would one need IP info?
          I answered you in PM

          Comment


          • #6
            Yeah, I read it. Like DAMN dude. Just to clarify, WorkingDAD needs the info, not the other party.

            I wish I could help you man, but I don't even know where to begin.

            Comment


            • #7
              I would think that they would need a court order in order to give the information. They are not just going to hand it over without it. May be lawyer time to find out the steps.

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by NBDad View Post
                Yeah, I read it. Like DAMN dude. Just to clarify, WorkingDAD needs the info, not the other party.

                I wish I could help you man, but I don't even know where to begin.
                Working on it. Have some questions out to contacts to see what can be done.

                Proving identity of an IP address to service location isn't actually that hard. What is hard is getting the service provider to provide the port the address was assigned to. (Physical port in the device.)

                The challenge that I have seen in the US is that people often claim that they had an unsecured network and someone connected to their router and someone else did it. There are so many counter arguments to be made.

                But, remember the balance of probability is the basis of the finding and not "beyond reasonable doubt". The thresh hold of "probability" will be higher but, the court in a civil matter is going to look at it from the balance still.

                Good Luck!
                Tayken

                Comment


                • #9
                  Without any info, let's look at a hypothetical example. You've been getting harrassing emails from a singular IP address.

                  Once you establish the source, the argument of "some random person hacked into my network and decided to send harrassing emails to WD, a person I am in a high conflict situation with and have a previous history of harrassing. But it wasn't me. Honest." That's not going to fly.

                  If this is criminal harrassment, then it should be out of family court and into criminal court. Like death threats.

                  If it's less than that, what are you seeking? A restraining order isn't hard to get, but it doesn't have a lot of teeth either. If you have an order that they stop sending you anonymous emails, and they don't, you aren't going to get them imprisoned.

                  It's important to follow up on these things, because it will be a pattern and some time in the future you will need to show that pattern. So yes, start now.

                  I believe the path you will follow will be to file a motion for a court order to seek the release of records from Google or Bell. These companies have nothing to gain from spending legal resources fighting a legitmate court order.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Mess View Post
                    Without any info, let's look at a hypothetical example. You've been getting harrassing emails from a singular IP address.

                    Once you establish the source, the argument of "some random person hacked into my network and decided to send harrassing emails to WD, a person I am in a high conflict situation with and have a previous history of harrassing. But it wasn't me. Honest." That's not going to fly.

                    If this is criminal harrassment, then it should be out of family court and into criminal court. Like death threats.

                    If it's less than that, what are you seeking? A restraining order isn't hard to get, but it doesn't have a lot of teeth either. If you have an order that they stop sending you anonymous emails, and they don't, you aren't going to get them imprisoned.

                    It's important to follow up on these things, because it will be a pattern and some time in the future you will need to show that pattern. So yes, start now.

                    I believe the path you will follow will be to file a motion for a court order to seek the release of records from Google or Bell. These companies have nothing to gain from spending legal resources fighting a legitmate court order.
                    Sadly enough it's still me and mom.
                    In short:

                    after finding out mom's postings regarding selling some personal items (furniture, dishes ...) with "Must sale. Leaving country soon" and confirmed in email (the same email what she used since 2006) corespondents by mom her address, that she is leaving with the child I have to bring to the court ex-parte emergency motion due to possibility of abducting the child.

                    Mom decided to go the same road she did during the trial. That is not my postings, I do not use that site and never use it for sale staff, I do not own account on that site, I do not have any passports and old one expired last year I throw away, I do not use that email since Feb and father fabricated all this just to take child from her...

                    turn out that I had evidence that she did use that site in 2009, and that she did use that email to communicate with daycare teacher in March.

                    after temporary temporary without prejudice order for "mom to have supervised access facilitated by CAS" mom fainted in court room and being taken to ER.

                    Now next appearance in court next week we have to deal with all that "computers records" staff. Previously mom said she will sign consent for those records to be released (noted thou that it will not be reliable as I may use proxy)

                    Basically somehow Judge (yes same Judge from a trial) need to see who is lying terribly in court (my guess he knows who but it not just that easy) and base on that there will be some dramatic change in custody and access.

                    Well I know I did not fabricate anything. I know that it's her. I have the feeling that onus should be on her to prove that

                    1. that it's not her
                    2. that it's me

                    but it is family court ... you know...everything possible

                    I am trying to do all I can from my side to make it as fast as possible and as cheap as possible. To have understanding how it will work. What steps to take and so on... What wording of order do we need, case law and so on ...

                    And what is also important WHO IS GOING TO PAY FOR ALL THIS?

                    What a mess... (not Mess )

                    WD
                    Last edited by WorkingDAD; 04-13-2012, 12:27 PM.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by WorkingDAD View Post
                      Sadly enough it's still me and mom.
                      In short:

                      after finding out mom's postings regarding selling some personal items (furniture, dishes ...) with "Must sale. Leaving country soon" and confirmed in email (the same email what she used since 2006) corespondents by mom her address, that she is leaving with the child I have to bring to the court ex-parte emergency motion due to possibility of abducting the child.

                      Mom decided to go the same road she did during the trial. That is not my postings, I do not use that site and never use it for sale staff, I do not own account on that site, I do not have any passports and old one expired last year I throw away, I do not use that email since Feb and father fabricated all this just to take child from her...

                      turn out that I had evidence that she did use that site in 2009, and that she did use that email to communicate with daycare teacher in March.

                      after temporary temporary without prejudice order for "mom to have supervised access facilitated by CAS" mom fainted in court room and being taken to ER.

                      Now next appearance in court next week we have to deal with all that "computers records" staff. Previously mom said she will sign consent for those records to be released (noted thou that it will not be reliable as I may use proxy)

                      Basically somehow Judge (yes same Judge from a trial) need to see who is lying terribly in court (my guess he knows who but it not just that easy) and base on that there will be some dramatic change in custody and access.

                      Well I know I did not fabricate anything. I know that it's her. I have the feeling that onus should be on her to prove that

                      1. that it's not her
                      2. that it's me

                      but it is family court ... you know...everything possible

                      I am trying to do all I can from my side to make it as fast as possible and as cheap as possible. To have understanding how it will work. What steps to take and so on... What wording of order do we need, case law and so on ...

                      And what is also important WHO IS GOING TO PAY FOR ALL THIS?

                      What a mess... (not Mess )

                      WD
                      O.M.G. Surely she is certifiable. The fainting in court was just the icing on the cake! Thank God her access visits are being supervised.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Here is little update:

                        1. Mom still has Supervised access and judge is not going to lift it before he has at least something to reduce abduction concerns.

                        2. Being in court twice since last post and scheduled to go back next week.

                        3. Mom retained a lawyer - I refuse to believe that it's again Legal AID. And lawyer does not help but make it even more difficult what is not surprise but still upsetting.

                        4. Two more affidavits filed by mom each changing story from previous one.

                        5. Two more affidavits filed by me including one from third party which also communicated with mom where she also confirmed her address and sent pictures of her furniture what she wants to sell. Mom said she had similar furniture but get rid of it late January and I attached pictures of it which I made from video what mom submitted to court in February.

                        6. Despite Judge's warning mom's lawyer do not want to do anything to confirm authenticity of emails (now they say I faked print outs of emails) and wanted to argue this in court. That will go really well considering our Trial. And this time I even more ready than was before.

                        7. Mom's lawyer tried to push the idea that internet not reliable and Bell does not keep record of IPs - that one did not fly as you may guess.

                        8. Despite all this S3 doing really well what make it at least little bit easier for me.

                        9. This one has huge possibilities to go to Trial again. There is no way I am going to give up as I did not fake anything. Judge said we will get to the bottom of this despite how difficult it will be or time consuming. I do not even know how you can settle this as mom can not be trusted at all.

                        10. Sty tuned... another posting on CanLii appears more and more inevitably.

                        PS:
                        If someone knows good and not crazy expensive computer forensics pleas PM me.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Seems like you are wasting time. If the flight risk is the issue, then focus on that.

                          I thought you needed a travel consent from other parent to leave the country with a child of the marriage .

                          Phone Canada Border Services and put them on alert for the risk. I have heard people do this as wierd as it sounds. Sorry if i am wrong and they think you're nuts.

                          Go into court and get an Order for the kid's passport to be held by the court ....they do this I think.

                          If she has a good job in Canada and roots (house) then judge probably won't believe you; if not, he probably might.

                          Comment

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