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Political Issues This forum is for discussing the political aspects of divorce: reform to divorce laws, men's rights, women's rights, injustices in the divorce system, etc.

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  #21 (permalink)  
Old 06-16-2014, 05:00 PM
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Thanks Stripes for basically summing up my and my husband's position. We pay CS and SS (and full CS plus, plus, plus) despite having children over 40 percent of time. We are fine in that decision and offered it long before/if it were ever ordered....

But fundamentally and now - we believe that each person should be independent and be financially for themselves. Stay at home if you want. But make no mistake - your employer doesn't take your husband's resignation from work - your employer takes your resignation. Just as if you drop out of school you drop out of school....all that to say, your spouse may have an influence but not the ultimate say.

I am certain that if more people were financially independent then a lot of the BS between divorced parents would be eradicated.
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  #22 (permalink)  
Old 06-16-2014, 05:08 PM
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Quote:
In any long-term marriage, I think it's impossible to say that decisions about family life were completely made by one spouse, with no responsibility borne by the other one. We see quite a few people turning up here complaining about how their ex "insisted" on staying home with the kids for years, and now that the marriage Is over wants spousal support; or "insisted" on spending lots of money and now they have very few assets to divide. I'm really suspicious of this kind of 20/20 hindsight. Did these people really have absolutely no input into a situation that went on for years? Were they really objecting strenuously the whole time, while their ex just went ahead with his/her own plans? I have more respect for people who take responsibility and own their decisions, whether those decision turned out good or bad in the long run.
I think its more subtle than that. My ex's job future is a cashier at a grocery store a marrying rich. When she asked me to stay home with the kids the answer was sure go ahead.

The detailed answer is more like, "Well you're not going anywhere anyways and childcare is more than you bring in and I love you so I'm ok taking the financial responsibility for YOUR sake and the kids sake."

Fast Forward to divorce court
It turns into stupidities like:
-"She didn't work to support my career"
-"You stopped her from working"
-"You benefittted from her staying home"
blah blah blah
While all that time I thought I Was being nice to her and the kids agreeing to her stay home.

At the end I accepted she stayed home but nobody told me if the tramp slept with everybody on the block while she was "Staying home" for the kids that i'd be paying her for it for at least half the length of the marriage AFTER i figured it out.

But back, to the CS discussion -
2 things I retained
1. Accountability is more palatable
2. If both households can afford the basics then no CS?
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  #23 (permalink)  
Old 06-16-2014, 05:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Serene View Post
Thanks Stripes for basically summing up my and my husband's position. We pay CS and SS (and full CS plus, plus, plus) despite having children over 40 percent of time. We are fine in that decision and offered it long before/if it were ever ordered....

But fundamentally and now - we believe that each person should be independent and be financially for themselves. Stay at home if you want. But make no mistake - your employer doesn't take your husband's resignation from work - your employer takes your resignation. Just as if you drop out of school you drop out of school....all that to say, your spouse may have an influence but not the ultimate say.

I am certain that if more people were financially independent then a lot of the BS between divorced parents would be eradicated.

I think it works the other way too Serene. I'd be much more financially independent if it weren't for the BS in family court.

I've actually spent more money on legal fees in the last few years than I have received in child support.
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  #24 (permalink)  
Old 06-16-2014, 05:51 PM
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I took a lot of info with a grain of salt until I saw the financials from the divorce, the list of projected s7 for that year, and then saw the email requests for more and more. And ive heard the kids screaming at him about how they have no money because of him and how they should be allowed to not worry about the consequences of spending money. Im more inclined to believe when I ask why they didnt move somewhere else.

Hes all for cs and reasonable s7. Its the "if you loved us you wouldnt have taken moms money/pay us more" argument. There almost needs to be divorce classes on what the law means. Equalization of assets is because of this, cs is this portion of income for that etc.

Links17 whats basic for one house may not be basic for others.
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  #25 (permalink)  
Old 06-16-2014, 05:57 PM
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Yes, I can understand that MS Mom. But for some, not all, it's a choice to go to court. I am owed over 60-80K in CS. I've never set foot in court to collect it...its my choice indeed. But not worth my effort.
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  #26 (permalink)  
Old 06-16-2014, 06:11 PM
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Court isn't always about money - it can be custody/access related. Which sucks even more - those legal fees are not tax deductible!
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  #27 (permalink)  
Old 06-16-2014, 06:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rockscan View Post
I took a lot of info with a grain of salt until I saw the financials from the divorce, the list of projected s7 for that year, and then saw the email requests for more and more. And ive heard the kids screaming at him about how they have no money because of him and how they should be allowed to not worry about the consequences of spending money. Im more inclined to believe when I ask why they didnt move somewhere else.

Hes all for cs and reasonable s7. Its the "if you loved us you wouldnt have taken moms money/pay us more" argument. There almost needs to be divorce classes on what the law means. Equalization of assets is because of this, cs is this portion of income for that etc.

Links17 whats basic for one house may not be basic for others.
The financials from the divorce don't tell the story of how they got there - just the story of where they currently are. It's all to easy to blame someone else (who isn't there anymore) for the mistakes they made.

I think the bigger concern there is the level of detail the children have (or perceive to have) of the financials in the divorce. The children can't fully understand it all, nor should they.
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  #28 (permalink)  
Old 06-16-2014, 06:41 PM
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Oh we know it! (all too well!).
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  #29 (permalink)  
Old 06-16-2014, 07:45 PM
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I don't buy the staying home with the kids excuse in today's day and age where you can keep yourself educated on line.

If you get half of the assets form the marriage while at home being this is your payout for the work you did during that time.

CS should be based on cost to raise a child and time each parent has child.

So what if one parent makes more they should have this in their home as extra support for child on their time. Other party wants to do more then work for it.
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  #30 (permalink)  
Old 06-16-2014, 10:24 PM
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I had a thought about this - here goes. Throughout our life we make mistakes and bad decisions - I should have stayed in school, shouldn't have bought that expensive car, should have visited my parents more before they passed away, shouldn't have settled for a boring job, etc. We carry the results of these mistakes for a long time. With most of these bad decisions, we have no one to blame but ourselves, because it's clear that we are the ones responsible (of course there are some people who play "poor me", and who think of themselves as eternal victims, but most reasonable people can see that they have a part in whatever happens in their lives.

However, divorce is different. For all the negative outcomes of divorce - financial struggles, difficulties with kids, stigma, etc - there's someone close at hand to blame - the ex! And it's easy to blame the ex because we are already really ticked off at him or her, or we wouldn't be divorcing. So people tend to lump all kinds of blame on their ex, rewriting history in the process. It's all his fault the kids are unhappy; she tricked me into supporting her while she stayed home and now she wants SS; I'm lonely on the holidays because he insists on having the kids; I can't go on vacation because she's demanding more child support; I'm living in a crappy apartment because he kept the house, etc. Divorce just sucks, and there are so many negative outcomes.

It's easier to blame the ex than to regard these circumstances as the outcomes of mistakes or bad decisions we ourselves made. We made a mistake when we married the other person; we made a mistake when we allowed a status quo to develop in which one parent didn't work; we made a mistake when we ignored signs all was not well in the marriage; we made a mistake when we gave in to what the ex wanted all the time, et cetera. Accepting that we ourselves have screwed up doesn't mean letting the ex off the hook completely, but it means understanding that there's plenty of responsibility to go around.
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