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  Ottawa Divorce .com Forums > Main Category > Political Issues

Political Issues This forum is for discussing the political aspects of divorce: reform to divorce laws, men's rights, women's rights, injustices in the divorce system, etc.

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  #11 (permalink)  
Old 06-16-2014, 10:53 AM
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Yes but what if parent b earns a lower income because parent a placed demands on their career and living situation? i.e. Parent a demanded they live in an area that doesnt support career choices for parent b and then parent a decided to spend more than they brought in? My partner has had more career opportunities now that he has the freedom to move and the money to train and get designations for his industry. He wasnt able to do any of this while married. His ex makes more money than him but continues to overspend and racked up a second mortgage to pay his equalization. No matter what he does, he will always be the bad guy because he "took moms money" and is living with me so we have two incomes and no children. No matter how much child support, s7, proportion of post sec. or gifts he gives, hes still the bad guy because they cant afford their house or the expenses she carried after the divorce.

Spouses should be responsible for cs and ss where its warranted. But the attitudes about being owed or blaming the other spouse when the case is that a spouse cant afford their lifestyle shouldnt be the responsibility of others.
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Old 06-16-2014, 11:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rioe View Post
Table CS is nowhere near someone's full earnings. The CS recipient is still going to live a much reduced lifestyle. Not to mention the sudden cessation of CS when the children are grown!

The wealthy parent is supporting their children, no matter where they live. It's just an unfortunate side effect that the ex also benefits for a time. The only people who have a problem with this are those who hate their ex more than they love their children. And maybe also those who have an ex who clearly spends the CS money on themselves instead of on the children.
CS/S7 is 25-30% of somebody's net income.
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Old 06-16-2014, 01:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rockscan View Post
Yes but what if parent b earns a lower income because parent a placed demands on their career and living situation? i.e. Parent a demanded they live in an area that doesnt support career choices for parent b and then parent a decided to spend more than they brought in? My partner has had more career opportunities now that he has the freedom to move and the money to train and get designations for his industry. He wasnt able to do any of this while married. His ex makes more money than him but continues to overspend and racked up a second mortgage to pay his equalization. No matter what he does, he will always be the bad guy because he "took moms money" and is living with me so we have two incomes and no children. No matter how much child support, s7, proportion of post sec. or gifts he gives, hes still the bad guy because they cant afford their house or the expenses she carried after the divorce.

Spouses should be responsible for cs and ss where its warranted. But the attitudes about being owed or blaming the other spouse when the case is that a spouse cant afford their lifestyle shouldnt be the responsibility of others.

Your partner chose to not pursue his career and/or limit his opportunities. His ex didn't make him - he chose to.

He needs to be accountable for the decisions he made then - as dumb or as intelligent as they were - they were HIS decisions, not his ex-wife's.

How are we ever going to raise children to be accountable and responsible when the children's parents have avoided accountability for their own decisions?

Last edited by MS Mom; 06-16-2014 at 01:57 PM.
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Old 06-16-2014, 01:55 PM
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Hallelujah!
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Old 06-16-2014, 02:22 PM
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So what youre saying is he should have left his wife and child because there were no opportunities for him? Or it was ok that she overspent both the salaries they were earning during the marriage?

He tried saying no. He tried stopping her. He tried doing what was best. He made the only choice left to him which was get divorced and it still goes on. He can say no now because they both cant afford it, she still does it and it becomes a case of "dad wont let you do this" or "dad doesnt pay enough child support".

Youre absolutely right about teaching responsibility but its hard to do when both parents arent on the same page.
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Old 06-16-2014, 02:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Links17 View Post
Is the answer that the poor parent's house is pimped out by the rich parent's wealth?

So in reality the rich parent never really gets fully divorced because entitlement to their wealth by the poor parent flows through the children...
The poor parent still lives almost like they were married to the richer parent
due to CS?
I believe this happens often, especially when the amounts of cs are large. For example, look at pro sports players when they divorce, they are still paying exorbant amounts of cs and the ex who has barely a grade 12 education is still living the life. I'll use Mike Vick as an example only because I was watching something about him recently. He went bankrupt, no one wanted to hire him, yet he was still having to pay cs in the amount of $100, 000 each month as the judge would not agree to lower it. At 100 grand of course his ex was profitting from it.

I have soul custody, I receive no cs. Is it fair to my child? No. But at the end of the day, I decided life is too short to spend it in court.
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Old 06-16-2014, 02:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rockscan View Post
So what youre saying is he should have left his wife and child because there were no opportunities for him? Or it was ok that she overspent both the salaries they were earning during the marriage?

He tried saying no. He tried stopping her. He tried doing what was best. He made the only choice left to him which was get divorced and it still goes on. He can say no now because they both cant afford it, she still does it and it becomes a case of "dad wont let you do this" or "dad doesnt pay enough child support".

Youre absolutely right about teaching responsibility but its hard to do when both parents arent on the same page.
Didn't they end up splitting up anyway?

I didn't say he should have left his wife because there were no opportunities for him (which, btw, is very different than what you originally stated which was that his wife prevented him from securing different opportunities and advancing his career).

What I said was - HE made the decision - as ill-guided as it was. Not his wife. Unless she put a dog collar on him daily and led him to the place she chose for him to work, bolted him to the desk and then picked him back up with the same leash - these are decisions HE made.

Hindsight is a truly wonderful thing. Yes, he should have left when it became clear that he would have no choice on his future career, his money, his spending, her spending, etc, etc, etc.
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Old 06-16-2014, 03:04 PM
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I may not have worded that correctly. Before they married they made all kinds of grand plans (which most engaged loving couples do) but after they got married things changed. It became a case of "we're not moving so you find any job you can that pays enough money for us to live here" (paraphrasing of course and 'here' was a very expensive town with very wealthy people, that was where she wanted to live and there was never an opportunity to discuss it, if he wanted to stay married, that was where they lived) and then proceeded to spend regardless of his input. When the kids came along it got worse. They had to keep up with all the other families in town. He had opportunities to advance or improve his skill set but there was no discussion about moving the family or using any money for designations--it was a non-starter. He had to do what he could to earn a specific level of money in that area. That was the bulk of their disagreements. He couldn't find a job that paid more than a certain amount because of the field he was in and his education/experience, and she refused to live within their means. I know this because of the way he acts with me regarding how we spend money, where we live, and how we save. He assumes I'll be like that and stresses about our future if I'm going to spend money we don't have (I'm a pretty frugal person so it's not going to happen). He did what he could to keep his marriage intact including working for an ex family member. Money and spending was one of the big reasons for the split and it continues to be an issue now with cs and other costs. He can finally say no, but it's not an answer the ex likes to hear and the kids have fallen in line with that attitude.

I get that there are give and takes in marriage but there seemed to be no give in this case. I make more money than he does but have a broader skill set. So while we're discussing looking for other opportunities elsewhere because we both have no options in the city we're in, we are considering both careers and where we can both do best. This was never a discussion between the two of them. Then it became a case of resentment over his meager income and how if he made more money they could afford more. Now with the divorce it's a case of "we have no money because you don't pay enough and took all our money". Maybe it's easier for us because we have no kids, or maybe it's just because we both know how to discuss concerns and be reasonable.

I believe in CS and SS. I was raised by a single mother who gave up her career to raise us and support my father in his career and went back to school after the divorce to get a job. Granted now my father has to continue working at 78 because a portion of his OAS is paid to my mother as part of the SS and he has serious heart problems--he made choices too, now he suffers the consequences. But I don't agree with the attitude of being "owed". My partner and his ex wife both made choices in their marriage. She knew he was limited in his career and still chose to marry him. He knew he was going to be tied to that area. They both made decisions after the divorce. He's meeting his responsibilities and trying to teach his kids that life isn't just handed to you, sometimes bad things happen, sometimes you make mistakes, sometimes you have to work for things. It's hard to go against the misaligned arguments they get fed that he took everything from them and doesn't pay enough.
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  #19 (permalink)  
Old 06-16-2014, 05:08 PM
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In any long-term marriage, I think it's impossible to say that decisions about family life were completely made by one spouse, with no responsibility borne by the other one. We see quite a few people turning up here complaining about how their ex "insisted" on staying home with the kids for years, and now that the marriage Is over wants spousal support; or "insisted" on spending lots of money and now they have very few assets to divide. I'm really suspicious of this kind of 20/20 hindsight. Did these people really have absolutely no input into a situation that went on for years? Were they really objecting strenuously the whole time, while their ex just went ahead with his/her own plans? I have more respect for people who take responsibility and own their decisions, whether those decision turned out good or bad in the long run.

My bf is in a similar situation - his ex quit work when kids were born and had tremendous spending habits. The end result is that there weren't a whole lot of assets to equalize when the divorce happened, and bf ended up on the hook for a lot of SS (time-limited, fortunately, and now almost done). But he recognizes his own complicity in letting the situation go on and on, and owns it (in his words, "I should have pulled my head out of my a$$ a lot sooner"). He's paying for his mistakes now - and it would be easy to pin all of this of his ex, but it takes two to screw up a marriage.
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Old 06-16-2014, 05:30 PM
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I also caution people on believing they know the "whole truth" when in reality, they have one side of the story, which came from someone they want to believe, want to trust, want to empathize with.

One of my ex's girlfriends also thought she knew the whole truth- from him. And now, as the mother of his second child (whom he doesn't see at all), she now realizes that -perhaps the "whole truth and nothing but the truth" wasn't the truth at all. She has actually apologized to me for all the grief that he caused (and she selflessly supported and encouraged based on the version of the truth she had).
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