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Political Issues This forum is for discussing the political aspects of divorce: reform to divorce laws, men's rights, women's rights, injustices in the divorce system, etc.

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  #51 (permalink)  
Old 05-13-2017, 10:46 AM
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Everyone on this fourm should watch the documentary "The Red Pill". It answers much of what is being discussed here. Created by a feminist....however at the end of documentary, she was no longer a feminist.

Trailers:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wLzeakKC6fE

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HK7n_XA40V8

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YDxKBuSkoxY

An "intelligent" feminist on this forum that watch this documentary, should no longer have the same views there after.
  #52 (permalink)  
Old 05-13-2017, 12:10 PM
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You just keep repeating the refrain of how difficult it is to be taken seriously, and that's why men's shelters can't happen.

And that you got called a whiner... Your that thin skinned and it hurts you that badly? You play the victim card like a pro though, congrats you've got in down really well.

Quit beating your drum, and read the article, or my post with quotes from it. Women had the same issues, and overcame it. The article tells you what to do.

I say your whining, because dammit man, that's what your doing. Your whining on a forum instead of taking action.

You post and write as though I think the idea shouldn't happen, and you couldn't be more wrong. I am just frustrated that people who talk, without actually taking action, are hypocrites, and yes whiners.

Hell over years I could have probably used the program services of one. I've had my ex do everything she could to take my children from my life. I'm in the military and believe I am directly responsible for the death of a great number of people. I've passed out at a friend's party after drinking too much, and woke up to a man in the process of getting ready to rape me, another man. My pants had been removed, his were off, and I was woke his groping me.

Any one of those issues could be enough to warrant seeking the help from a place like what a men's shelter could provide, and I may have used it if it were available. I've instead had to learn to deal with it myself and probably have some issues due to that.

You know the difference between you and me though? I've donated to groups trying to make these things happen, I've volunteered at homeless shelters that have services for men.

I haven't spent my time moaning about the inequity men face, on a thread started to highlight a woman's accomplishment, which had nothing to do with men's shelters, men's rights, just asshole men.

I'll sum up again, by saying to DO SOMETHING. Quit writing anonymously on the internet about how hard it is. If nothing else, do something small and make it easier for those who follow you and are willing to do the heavy lifting.
  #53 (permalink)  
Old 05-13-2017, 12:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LovingFather32 View Post
I would certainly agree to this Arabian .. but there's a problem.

We get called whiners, wimps, gay, and whatever else simply for being a victim. With these prescribed gender roles and stereotypes (me man...me macho), society has almost made it impossible to show the world we're "scared" and need help. This thread is a GREAT example. A few of us added to your great article by talking about how abuse is genderless....we got called whiners and that we should do something about it. Would a female have been called a whiner? I don't think so. That's a problem.

Dad's rights movements piss people off here for some reason. Women's rights are discussed at length and they dont have to be subjected to be called "whiners"...or "do something about it whiner"...etc. I just dont get it. We should be able to discuss things without all that stuff.

My Uncle experienced quite a bit of abuse from my Aunt. He's a military man and big wig mechanic now for Mitsubishi.. a man's man. My Aunt would drink then hit, kick, pinch and spit on him. We had no idea this was happening. Finally one night she threw a glass and it shattered near his eye, leaving huge scars. My Uncle finally called the police .. told them everything. He even slept on the bathroom floor behind a locked door (that she broke down twice) most nights.

Long story short, my Aunt turned on he water works and the police escorted my Uncle out of his home that he spent years working to pay for. She was never charged and just got to relax. He lost everything and tells me all the time he wished he never called the police. He was with her 30 years. He now lives in a basement apartment in Toronto, paying an unbelievable amount of SS, is depressed and hurt. She is now living with a golf pro and vacationing every weekend, living the life... smiling ear to ear.

I watched my friend get sucker punched by a girl in a bar ... he got laughed at by the police, who encouraged him to go to the gym or take a boxing class. She got a high five and a great reputation. This is why I dont get Soiled's snotty little attitude about this issue. It's quite disturbing actually. Posters like Soiled, who sit back and call men WHINERS for merely "discussing" the issue...is the reason most men keep it quiet. It's really sad that people like that were raised in such a manner.

Just look at Jeff's thread:



Why are they bragging? Because they're being positively reinforced. They're gettign high fives. It's "cool" and "funny" to be able to hurt a man. The police don't do anything..and there's posters like Soiled who add to the flames by calling men whiners because they dont want to be humiliated and shunned by society for coming forward....so insensitive and discouraging.

I personally don't think the owner of this great site is a "whiner" just because he's not out opening up shelters or domestic violence groups for men. I think an important first step is opening discussion on forums like this, and I commend him for sharing that article.

Let's refrain from calling each other whiners for discussing abuse without starting a movement. Perhaps discussing it here is the start of a movement.

I know we can do better on this site. There are many readers here, possibly many enduring abuse. Let's smarten up.

sooo..... your excuse for men not starting men's shelters is because they are called names? Don't think for a moment that the women who started the shelter in Toronto weren't called names? In fact I believe they were personally threatened for the work they did.

Regarding name calling - go back a few pages and you will see what name I was called by Janus. I didn't notice your objection.

I joined this forum back in 2011. Since the time I have been on here there has been endless discussion including the perceived unfair situation that there is not a similar place of refuge for men who find themselves victims of domestic abuse. So.... 6 years have passed now. I would like to know if ANYONE on this forum has volunteered or actively tried to initiate a refuge/shelter for men. For many years prior to my joining this forum there was much of the same discussion. How many years, and to what end, is the pity-party (yes that is what it is amounting to) going to go on for? Talk is cheap. I suggest you and others get on with what you have to do to get things going.
  #54 (permalink)  
Old 05-13-2017, 12:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by arabian View Post
. 6 years have passed now. I would like to know if ANYONE on this forum has volunteered or actively tried to initiate a refuge/shelter for men. For many years prior to my joining this forum there was much of the same discussion.
I spent a few years posted to Halifax, and donated quite a bit of my time, and some funds to this place.
Metro Turning Point | Shelter Nova Scotia

It's a men's only shelter. Yes, they do exist. It didn't however have much for domestic violence and such, had I known more then, I could have pushed for or helped establish such things.
  #55 (permalink)  
Old 05-13-2017, 12:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Soiled View Post
I spent a few years posted to Halifax, and donated quite a bit of my time, and some funds to this place.
Metro Turning Point | Shelter Nova Scotia

It's a men's only shelter. Yes, they do exist. It didn't however have much for domestic violence and such, had I known more then, I could have pushed for or helped establish such things.
It sounds as though this shelter is similar to many women's shelters.

Some shelters in other provinces have expanded to provide sanctuary to men (some at same location and some have opened up extension of services at another location). Probably I read which seems to be consistent is that men are reticent in discussing their abuse and it is felt this may be due to societal view on roles of men in heterosexual intimate partnerships.

As funding for shelters is primarily done through volunteerism, I could see expansion to men if men agreed to raise substantial funds for assurance of addition/increase of beds for men at separate location. Volunteerism would be beneficial for many aspects: education of rank-and-file police is the first that comes to mind.
  #56 (permalink)  
Old 05-13-2017, 01:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Soiled View Post
You just keep repeating the refrain of how difficult it is to be taken seriously, and that's why men's shelters can't happen.

And that you got called a whiner... Your that thin skinned and it hurts you that badly? You play the victim card like a pro though, congrats you've got in down really well.

Quit beating your drum, and read the article, or my post with quotes from it. Women had the same issues, and overcame it. The article tells you what to do.

I say your whining, because dammit man, that's what your doing. Your whining on a forum instead of taking action.

You post and write as though I think the idea shouldn't happen, and you couldn't be more wrong. I am just frustrated that people who talk, without actually taking action, are hypocrites, and yes whiners.

Hell over years I could have probably used the program services of one. I've had my ex do everything she could to take my children from my life. I'm in the military and believe I am directly responsible for the death of a great number of people. I've passed out at a friend's party after drinking too much, and woke up to a man in the process of getting ready to rape me, another man. My pants had been removed, his were off, and I was woke his groping me.

Any one of those issues could be enough to warrant seeking the help from a place like what a men's shelter could provide, and I may have used it if it were available. I've instead had to learn to deal with it myself and probably have some issues due to that.

You know the difference between you and me though? I've donated to groups trying to make these things happen, I've volunteered at homeless shelters that have services for men.

I haven't spent my time moaning about the inequity men face, on a thread started to highlight a woman's accomplishment, which had nothing to do with men's shelters, men's rights, just asshole men.

I'll sum up again, by saying to DO SOMETHING. Quit writing anonymously on the internet about how hard it is. If nothing else, do something small and make it easier for those who follow you and are willing to do the heavy lifting.
Your point is extremely well made Soiled. But unfortunately I don't think they will acknowledge the struggle of those women because they think it devaluates their position.

It was an articulate post Soiled. I am sorry for what you experienced.
  #57 (permalink)  
Old 05-13-2017, 01:32 PM
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For years I golfed in an annual golf tournament dedicated to fund women's shelter in Edmonton. It started as a small tournament and grew every year to a point where there is a waiting list despite the hefty ticket price. The organizers/volunteers (women and men) obtain donations from individuals and businesses. (prizes are fabulous). The event has grown and is a huge success. Proceeds from this event (and an annual fashion show/silent auction) fund the women's shelter. Other women's shelters have done the same.

The very same thing could be done to fund men's shelters. Start small with a dedicated group of volunteers... offer to sponsor a hole at your local tournament. Talk to your own local shelter and ask how you can perhaps piggy-back with them if they have fundraising events.
  #58 (permalink)  
Old 05-13-2017, 01:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Soiled View Post
I spent a few years posted to Halifax, and donated quite a bit of my time, and some funds to this place.
Metro Turning Point | Shelter Nova Scotia

It's a men's only shelter. Yes, they do exist. It didn't however have much for domestic violence and such, had I known more then, I could have pushed for or helped establish such things.
Good for you Soiled!! Nice to read that someone on here has done something.

What a horrible thing for you to endure. I pray you can one day put your experience far, far from your daily life. It must be very difficult.
  #59 (permalink)  
Old 05-13-2017, 03:01 PM
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LF32 is not "whining" - nobody is "whining". I personally don't like the word "whining" - it's not very cordial and says more about the person who's using the word than the person whom the word is being used against.

LF32 and other have a right to share their comments and concerns without being called "whiners". LF32 simply doesn't want to re-invent the wheel and I agree with him.

There is already a network of shelters in place... it is called
Quote:
Women’s Shelters Canada (formerly the Canadian Network of Women’s Shelters and Transitional Houses)
- it is
Quote:
a network of 14 provincial and territorial shelter networks representing over 400 shelters across Canada. It works as a unified voice to collaborate, educate, and innovate for systemic change that ends violence against women, making Canada a model for safety in the world.
What LF32 and others (including me) are pointing out here is that we already have the system in place. I'm suggesting that this system discriminates against men despite advertising themselves as a "model for safety in the world" - that there is only violence against women.

It has clearly been pointed out that there is also violence against men.

Why should we re-invent the wheel when the "leaders" of the established shelter homes in Canada could simply stop their discrimination against men? If a man came up with this great idea and started this organization across Canada and called it a model for helping poverty in the world and let's say it was called WELFARE but only assisted men.. would women start their own thing that only funds women or would they want this "model organization" to not discriminate and fund both men and women who are living in poverty ? Because as far as I am concerned, women never created their own court or legal system when custody was routinely granted to fathers -- they rallies and protested (or whined as you like to call it) and brought equality to our pre-existing systems in place.

Last edited by trinton; 05-13-2017 at 03:11 PM.
  #60 (permalink)  
Old 05-13-2017, 03:12 PM
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They absolutely do need to be kept separate and apart. Full stop.

A woman who just spent the last decade of her life getting beaten and basically held hostage by a man, is not likely to go to a shelter and share a roof with another man.

Just as a man in the same situation will not likely trust women or want to share a roof with them.

The shelters can't be shared, it defeats the purpose. The only possible thing you could reasonably argue is for the funding to be shared, but in order to accomplish that your going to have to do two things.

1) Increase funds for the organization enough that there would be no loss in services for the women's shelter. I would be willing to bet there is not enough funding already and they have to turn people away. The optics of this would not otherwise be palatable to the public at large with the current views of this matter in today's society.

2) People, like you, need to step up and actually do something to help establish that there is a need for this. To make a change you have to identify to people that there is a problem, and show them how it can be corrected.

Posting on an internet thread about women's shelters, and tearing down their accomplishments, not to mention questioning the legitimacy of the people using them, is not the way to make a convincing argument.
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