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Political Issues This forum is for discussing the political aspects of divorce: reform to divorce laws, men's rights, women's rights, injustices in the divorce system, etc.

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Old 11-19-2013, 02:29 AM
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In this case there are no children. The "jobless one" was unemployed due to a turndown in their industry and a lack of similar job opportunities, NOT because they were unable to work at all. Why does one person need to support the other if they were never "married", just living together. I know the law provides for this but doesn't anyone agree that the focus should be on the individuals choice not to be married as in the recent Quebec case? Shouldn't the " jobless one" take some responsibility for themselves instead of becoming parsitic!! ((As far as the "affair" part goes, isn't it "no fault" for divorcing couples, so this shouldn't legally matter right?))
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Old 11-19-2013, 08:51 AM
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Never a situation that I was personally involved with.
But I wonder, if in a family unit without children one person works outside the home and the other works in the house to clean and cook and so forth (very important part of a family unit). When the split happens, would it be reasonable if the person who stayed at home had to at least provide some sort of household service for the other party to keep spousal support.
The family unit had to equal parties. One worked to make money, the other worked to support the person making money. When you take out the support role why does the money making one still have to financially support them?
I feel that after the division of assets, and hopefully if the couple can afford for one person to stay home they should have some assets. Then a short term of financial support, say as long as someone would get Unemployment insurance, as they have essencially been fired from their job at home. Like anyone else who loses a job, its not always fair and alot of people invest alot of themselves into a job and find themselves after decades of work being laid off, and they have few or no transferable skills. Why is it different?
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Old 11-19-2013, 09:00 AM
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I received my divorce with reason stated as "adultery" and yes, Canada has a no-fault divorce, I did get my divorce sooner and didn't have to wait 1 year to apply for one. Judges are only human so do not think that somewhere along the line "adultery" hasn't weighed on someone's mind. Having my ex swear to adultery was part of our strategy.

The law protects those who might not be able to protect themselves. Do you think it at all possible that someone would take advantage of an individual by refusing to marry them fully intending to circumvent divorce law and avoid having to pay SS? Hmmm wonder if that every happens.

Being from Alberta I'd have to say that Quebec, to me, is another country. I have no idea what laws are in play there.
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Old 11-19-2013, 09:03 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fireweb13 View Post
Never a situation that I was personally involved with.
But I wonder, if in a family unit without children one person works outside the home and the other works in the house to clean and cook and so forth (very important part of a family unit). When the split happens, would it be reasonable if the person who stayed at home had to at least provide some sort of household service for the other party to keep spousal support.
The family unit had to equal parties. One worked to make money, the other worked to support the person making money. When you take out the support role why does the money making one still have to financially support them?
I feel that after the division of assets, and hopefully if the couple can afford for one person to stay home they should have some assets. Then a short term of financial support, say as long as someone would get Unemployment insurance, as they have essencially been fired from their job at home. Like anyone else who loses a job, its not always fair and alot of people invest alot of themselves into a job and find themselves after decades of work being laid off, and they have few or no transferable skills. Why is it different?
I think you raise some interesting points. I have always felt that EI or private insurance should be mandatory for people who work out of the home. It is work and can be hard work for some, depending upon the lifestyle.
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Old 11-19-2013, 09:10 AM
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Originally Posted by arabian View Post
I think you raise some interesting points. I have always felt that EI or private insurance should be mandatory for people who work out of the home. It is work and can be hard work for some, depending upon the lifestyle.

I think the main part is that it is work and should be respected. When I was young before my parents divorced my Mom stayed at home with the 4 of us. She made sure that raising us and keeping the household was her priority so when my dad came home he didn't have a mess to deal with. Then in the evenings and weekends they shared responsibilities, and it didn't include cleaning all weekend and stuff like that.

Unfortunatly I also know some stay at home parents who refuse to clean, barely take care of their kids and don't want to cook.
I think that if both parties are of the understanding that they are both working for the good of their families and that neither is working harder than the other, but only working differently it can work.
I guess spousal support after a marriage breakdown is a form of EI.
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Old 11-19-2013, 09:24 AM
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Yes things vary from household to household. My ex was a clean-freak who demanded perfection. He expected extensive home-cooked meals and large lunches packed for him each and every day. Our grocery bill was hefty and the shopping alone was a chore as he would only eat certain cuts of fresh meat. I couldn't go and stock up on a deal on meat as he didn't like to eat meat that had been frozen. He expected home-made cabbage rolls, pyrogies, deserts, cookies etc. Laundry was done daily as were the floors washed and everything kept in pristine condition. I ironed everything, including his bluejeans. On top of this I did the accounting for the business and raised a son. I also did contract work when opportunities arose. I put all of my inheritance in the business. We entertained frequently. I cooked for most of his family on major holidays and sometimes that meant cooking for 26 - 28 people.

When someone refers to a stay-at-home individual as a person who basically just cleans up around the place I see red. Yes there are some people who do minimum around the house but that seemed to be all that their spouses expect.

SS should, and is, determined on an individual basis. Documentation is very, very important. If the ex did relatively nothing then it is incumbent on the person who doesn't want to pay SS to prove this.
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Old 11-19-2013, 09:28 AM
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Quote:
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. He expected home-made cabbage rolls, pyrogies, deserts, cookies etc..

I pretty much stopped reading at Cabbage Rolls.....mmmmmmm
To bad its almost a lost art. My wifes Grandma makes great ones though, they are often a christmas present (usually about 10 meals worth of them for us.
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Old 11-19-2013, 09:31 AM
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Oh I forgot to mention that I did all of my ex's personal shopping for him, cleaned the vehicles. The bathrooms (3) were cleaned each and every day. I arranged all of his appointments (medical and financial). I also brought him his tea to him each and every night. Throughout the marriage I drove our son to every single practice/activity.

I performed my "job" to the best of my abilities. I'm sure many other spouses did the same and contributed to the family unit.
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Old 11-19-2013, 09:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fireweb13 View Post
I pretty much stopped reading at Cabbage Rolls.....mmmmmmm
To bad its almost a lost art. My wifes Grandma makes great ones though, they are often a christmas present (usually about 10 meals worth of them for us.
You can go on utube and it shows how to make them. You just need a head of savoy cabbage and rice and whatever else you want to put in them. These things aren't difficult to do they just take time. Time that could have been spent going to a gym or shopping or going for a manicure - which many people think stay-at-homers do all day LOL.
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Old 11-19-2013, 09:47 AM
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Going by the information given.

Not married, no kids. No entitlement to SS is my opinion. The jobless one stayed home and did house work (minimal given that there are no kids!), chose to not find a job. Financially the one with the job would have been better off to hire someone to do housework, rather than completely support the jobless one.

The jobless one benefited financially from the arrangement and didn't have to work - house work for a couple is not equal to a full time job by any stretch of the imagination.

The jobless one is responsible for themselves - when the relationship ended there should be no need for the one with the job continue to provide something to the jobless one when nothing is provided by the jobless one to the one with the job.

Get a job, take care of yourself as any adult should.
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