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Political Issues This forum is for discussing the political aspects of divorce: reform to divorce laws, men's rights, women's rights, injustices in the divorce system, etc.

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Old 11-18-2013, 02:45 AM
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So, the story goes… they meet, fall in love and move in together. Everything is great for a few years but then one loses their job. In an effort to make up for the loss in their share of expenses, the jobless one becomes the housecleaner, dishwasher, clothes washer, and cook. The jobless one makes sure the other one has what they need as they headed out to their job every day. The job that is now, supporting both of them. Everything is fine at first, but as time goes on things begin to get stale. The jobless one isn’t as committed to household chores anymore. The working one isn’t home as much. Eventually it comes to light that the time away from home was due to an affair. The jobless one is asked to leave the home and does. Soon after, a lawyer is called and even though they were never married, the jobless one sues for Spousal Support and gets it. Do you think the jobless one deserves it, even if they were never married?<O</O
Should just living together, and having sex, mean that one NEEDS to support the other even if the relationship is over? Where would the jobless one be if the working one had not been around to support them when they lost their job? Didn’t the working one already give enough? Should the jobless one be given an opportunity to sue for a piece of the value of the home too, even if they are not on the title to the property?<O</O
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Old 11-18-2013, 07:28 AM
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It really depends on the situation - and we are only getting one side of the story here. Do you have children? How long were you living together? How old is your ex? What kind of work skills does she have etc.

I'm sure that others here will tell you what you want to hear, but I won't.

In my opinion, you should be giving her some temporary SS until she can get back on her feet. The affair and who did what to who is of no importance really. You both have to deal with the consequences of your break-up.

Since you were never married, I don't believe that your ex can make claims on your home - though I'm not a lawyer.
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Old 11-18-2013, 08:59 AM
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In our country, working in the home as your "jobless" person did, is considered "traditional" work. If you have someone come to your house and perform these responsibilities on a daily basis you would pay for it. If you did not pay a wage for the work at the time it was done you would be contacted by your Provincial employment ministry and collection procedures would ensue. The same would apply if you hired a housekeeper and offered room and board as part of the remuneration (wages). If you didn't pay, but did provide room and board, you would still be on the hook for the wage portion of the employment.

With this in mind, some might posit that you are in a good position owing money under Family Law because you have the option of offering a cash settlement and avoiding court.

If you still don't understand what I am saying then look at how farmer's wives are compensation for years of work on the family farm after they divorce.

Married or not, someone performed work for you and requires payment.
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Old 11-18-2013, 09:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by arabian View Post
In our country, working in the home as your "jobless" person did, is considered "traditional" work. If you have someone come to your house and perform these responsibilities on a daily basis you would pay for it. If you did not pay a wage for the work at the time it was done you would be contacted by your Provincial employment ministry and collection procedures would ensue. The same would apply if you hired a housekeeper and offered room and board as part of the remuneration (wages). If you didn't pay, but did provide room and board, you would still be on the hook for the wage portion of the employment.

With this in mind, some might posit that you are in a good position owing money under Family Law because you have the option of offering a cash settlement and avoiding court.

If you still don't understand what I am saying then look at how farmer's wives are compensation for years of work on the family farm after they divorce.

Married or not, someone performed work for you and requires payment.

So, how would a person that took care of household work compensate person that worked outside of the home for the work that person did for them? Because if that person did not work outside of the home, they would not have a home, or food, or clothes. Let's be honest, most of us work and do house chores. If there are no kids involved, and on top of housework, that person took care of the kids (main reason for staying home), I do not see why anyone should be entitled to SS, maybe for couple of months until the ''jobless'' person finds work.
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Old 11-18-2013, 10:04 AM
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I think by agreeing to her staying home, in a traditional role, you hooped yourself. Of course it will depend upon how long she worked outside of the home, how long since she worked outside of the home and how long you were together, etc.

I understand what you are saying, however, the work performed by the stay-at-home person is considered to be contributing to the family and supportive of the person who works outside of the home.

I am confused as to your statement of child care responsibilities. Did your XCL look after children as well or were her responsibilities limited to housework?
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Old 11-18-2013, 10:06 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Toutou View Post
So, how would a person that took care of household work compensate person that worked outside of the home for the work that person did for them? Because if that person did not work outside of the home, they would not have a home, or food, or clothes. Let's be honest, most of us work and do house chores. If there are no kids involved, and on top of housework, that person took care of the kids (main reason for staying home), I do not see why anyone should be entitled to SS, maybe for couple of months until the ''jobless'' person finds work.
Sounds like the one with a job was committed to the arrangement until they found a better partner through an affair.

This sounds like regret for allowing someone to live in "your home" "rent free" and "clean up" as a contribution to household expenses rather than work.

A "traditional" arrangement suited everyone until that "traditional" arrangement required "traditional" spousal support and asset division. Perhaps a cohabitation agreement could have solved this mess of regret?
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Old 11-18-2013, 10:18 AM
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Something else to ponder:

Who paid the bills? Were there any joint bank accounts, loans or credit cards?
Was person doing housekeeping responsibilities given personal spending money?
Did person doing housekeeping ever look for work after losing job or was it mutually agreed that one would stay at home and work in traditional role?
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Old 11-18-2013, 11:54 AM
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I have a feeling this story would look very different if the "the jobless one" were writing it. Clearly there was a more than "living together and having sex" in this relationship, no matter how you might paint it in hindsight. You weren't just friends with benefits, you were a social and economic partnership unit, and that has to be taken into consideration when resources are divvyed up at the end of the relationship.

Entitlement for SS has to be proven, it is not automatic - but if "the jobless one" had been at home for an extended period; and if s/he had been contributing to the economic success of the employed one by doing the unpaid work at home, including child-rearing; and if the jobless one had given up economic or educational opportunities in order to support the partnership - then s/he might be able to make a good case for entitlement.


Quote:
Originally Posted by soonfree!! View Post
So, the story goes… they meet, fall in love and move in together. Everything is great for a few years but then one loses their job. In an effort to make up for the loss in their share of expenses, the jobless one becomes the housecleaner, dishwasher, clothes washer, and cook. The jobless one makes sure the other one has what they need as they headed out to their job every day. The job that is now, supporting both of them. Everything is fine at first, but as time goes on things begin to get stale. The jobless one isn’t as committed to household chores anymore. The working one isn’t home as much. Eventually it comes to light that the time away from home was due to an affair. The jobless one is asked to leave the home and does. Soon after, a lawyer is called and even though they were never married, the jobless one sues for Spousal Support and gets it. Do you think the jobless one deserves it, even if they were never married?<O</O
Should just living together, and having sex, mean that one NEEDS to support the other even if the relationship is over? Where would the jobless one be if the working one had not been around to support them when they lost their job? Didn’t the working one already give enough? Should the jobless one be given an opportunity to sue for a piece of the value of the home too, even if they are not on the title to the property?<O</O
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Old 11-18-2013, 09:17 PM
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Unemployed spouses who stay home are generally entitled to 40% of your income for at least half the length of the marriage on a sliding scale to the full length of the marriage.

That is how it works in canada and that is why don't marry somebody who doesn't work because no amount of housework is worth that much.
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Old 11-18-2013, 11:30 PM
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Links I recall you spent a considerable amount of money on lawyer. You were only married for 7 yrs but had 2 children. I assume your wife was a stay-at-home mother. I'm curious. Did you have a nanny or did your wife look after the children as well as the home? How long do you have to pay SS? Does your ex get 40% of your income for 7 yrs?
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