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Political Issues This forum is for discussing the political aspects of divorce: reform to divorce laws, men's rights, women's rights, injustices in the divorce system, etc.

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  #21 (permalink)  
Old 04-09-2014, 03:57 PM
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How's one to move forward in life if they have to constantly report back to their ex? You do understand that causing the CP to justify their expenses to the NCP would create constant conflict between the spouses right?

Does the CP have to justify how they spend the C/S alone? Or do they also have to show how they spent their own money as well? One could rightly argue that, as both parents are expected to contribute to the child, maybe an accounting of the C/P's money should be articulated when reporting on C/S expenses.......which is simply unfair and intrusive. But again, if reporting were required, it could be easily argued.
Mah lets get real here, what's wrong with simply establishing a redeemable coupon system ... here let me show (at worst case):

-N/C parent issues 12 - 700$ redeemable coupons for food
-N/C parent issues 6 - 100$ redeemable coupons for clothing
-N/C parent issues 3 - 300$ redeemable coupons for schooling materials/books
-N/C parent issues 12 - 300$ redeemable coupons for child day care
-N/C parent issues 12 - 100$ redeemable coupons for Internet and smart phone charges, games etc...
-N/C parent issues 12 - 100$ redeemable amount on miscellaneous stuff like gas, bus tickets for going out for ice cream and the like .....

The above is more than enough! I am sure this can be done.....

And if more is needed, I am sure that the non custodial parent is glad to help out! all under a controlled money distribution !

Or why not a multi-category expense Visa that can allow a certain amount of credit towards only certain transactions. I am sure the world can come up with such a system for such a huuuuuuuuuuge market!
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  #22 (permalink)  
Old 04-09-2014, 03:58 PM
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Originally Posted by paco View Post
Hammerdad, have you heard about accountability? simply having a dedicated cs account where all cs payments are made, and the non-custodial parent should have access all the time to view where money goes should be normal, in this life we're all held accountable for everything we do, same with CS, don't tell me that two small kids eat and needs clothing for $1000/month, just to give an example. Here is more than that, I believe it's a political decision to get full table CS awarded to custodial parent (mostly mothers).

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So in this account, does the CP also have to put in what they would pay in c/s? Or is it just the NCP's monies that have to be accounted? You do understand that it is both parents obligation to support the kids, emotionally and financially, thus this account you speak of would inherently need to include the CP's contribution, otherwise it is useless.

What if there is money left over at the end of the month? Does that mean the NCP should pay less?

You are only looking at the needs of the kids which, while part of the equation, is not the whole equation. I mentioned to posts ago, that c/s was determined in such a manner that would allow the child to enjoy a similar lifestyle as if both parents remained married. In some instances it is successful, in others obviously not so much. The imbalance becoming more prevalent as woman, who I agree generally get custody more often then they likely statistically should, make more money. The wage gap between men and women is decreasing (although, I do lean on the side where it was arguable there was one to begin with, but that is another topic for another thread). And as the wage gap decreases, the need to balance the "family" incomes decreases. But that said, if the kids benefit form having two houses who are making solid money, then where is the harm. So long as the lifestyle is relatively equal in both homes for the children, that is all that matters in the eyes of those that created the guidelines.

Just to point out, I pay c/s. I pay a good amount, but no where near what others here pay. I don't begrudge paying it as my D8 is well kept. Does she need to go to Disney for a 3rd time this summer with the ex? Nope. Much like there wasn't a need for her to go on her 3rd Caribbean cruise on March break. But, if that was the case....there is also no reason for me to take her to Disney next year either which I am really looking forward to.

Anyway, accounting for c/s is intrusive. For those that were in abusive relationships, it would allow for abuse to continue. The payer would likely rage they are paying too much if the CP leaves anything in the account, but the payer would also likely rage if every penny was spent on the kids just for the sake of paying. The payee would hate it as they would constantly feel watched, and hate having to justify every expense to a person that they no longer live with and are living a separate life from.
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  #23 (permalink)  
Old 04-09-2014, 04:00 PM
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How's one to move forward in life if they have to constantly report back to their ex? You do understand that causing the CP to justify their expenses to the NCP would create constant conflict between the spouses right?
You are taking somebody's hard earned money and giving it to somebody else with the "hope" they spend it on the kids.

The payor can't "move on" because 15% of their income or more per child
is gone + the government benefits.

Conflict is part of divorce and the root is not the issues themselves it is the people.


Quote:
Does the CP have to justify how they spend the C/S alone? Or do they also have to show how they spent their own money as well? One could rightly argue that, as both parents are expected to contribute to the child, maybe an accounting of the C/P's money should be articulated when reporting on C/S expenses.......which is simply unfair and intrusive. But again, if reporting were required, it could be easily argued.
In most of Canada the CP is providing care in lieu of financial support. That is basis of why support is calculated just on the payor's income. Quebec is based on both people's income so in Quebec's case YES why should a payor give up their money and get no accounting back.

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When one divorces, it is to move on with their lives with as minimal interaction with the ex as possible. Having to justify and report on c/s doesn't do that. And it could be used as tool to maintain contact and potentially be a means of abuse.
blah blah ... everything in divorce can be used as forms of abuse, kids, property, money.

There are tonnes of ways to do it so it doesn't cause conflict. It can be an annual expense form. It isn't that complicated really, part of CS goes to housing etc... and part to direct expenses. It can be done EASILY.





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Edit - and if you don't want to have the recipient report to the ex, how much more in taxes do you want to pay to have a government agency setup to oversee how c/s is being spent? Personally, I'd rather allow my ex to spend a few bucks on a Coach purse, than pay thousands in taxes over the years to prove she is only spending the money on the kids. Notwithstanding the taxes, that is just another invasion by Big Brother into the lives of taxpayer.
-If you are happy to pay for your ex's coach purse rather than pay for your kids then we're clearly not on the same page and I would arguye that 99% of people would disagree with you. In fact I'd rather flush the money down the toilet than my ex spend it on herself - just as a matter of principle on really being divorced.
-It doesn;t have to be thousands, she provides annual accounting. If it is faulty you go to court the same way people go fo S7 expenses and everything else. Except child support is A much bigger ticket item.


The reality is this - child support is a wealth transfer. Concerned, there are tonnes of people that agree with you but you need to make a movement out of it. Also you need to find out statistically is this really a problem. I think most people earn like 35k or less and CS is probably not enough.

Last edited by Links17; 04-09-2014 at 04:03 PM.
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  #24 (permalink)  
Old 04-09-2014, 04:02 PM
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Originally Posted by Concerned View Post
Mah lets get real here, what's wrong with simply establishing a redeemable coupon system ... here let me show (at worst case):

-N/C parent issues 12 - 700$ redeemable coupons for food
-N/C parent issues 6 - 100$ redeemable coupons for clothing
-N/C parent issues 3 - 300$ redeemable coupons for schooling materials/books
-N/C parent issues 12 - 300$ redeemable coupons for child day care
-N/C parent issues 12 - 100$ redeemable coupons for Internet and smart phone charges, games etc...
-N/C parent issues 12 - 100$ redeemable amount on miscellaneous stuff like gas, bus tickets for going out for ice cream and the like .....

The above is more than enough! I am sure this can be done.....

And if more is needed, I am sure that the non custodial parent is glad to help out! all under a controlled money distribution !
Again, you are taking the simplistic view that c/s is strictly about needs. It is not. It is about minimizing the impact on the kids financially in the event of divorce. It is about ensuring the kids enjoy a similar standard of living as if the parents were together.

Vouchers...right, lets make the CP feel like they are food-stamps............ I generally couldn't give a crap about feelings, so for me to suggest this means the idea is ludicrous.
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Old 04-09-2014, 04:06 PM
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Originally Posted by Links17 View Post
You are taking somebody's hard earned money and giving it to somebody else with the "hope" they spend it on the kids.

The payor can't "move on" because 15% of their income or more per child
is gone + the government benefits.

Conflict is part of divorce and the root is not the issues themselves it is the people.


In most of Canada the CP is providing care in lieu of financial support. That is basis of why support is calculated just on the payor's income. Quebec is based on both people's income so in Quebec's case YES why should a payor give up their money and get no accounting back.

blah blah ... everything in divorce can be used as forms of abuse, kids, property, money.

There are tonnes of ways to do it so it doesn't cause conflict. It can be an annual expense form. It isn't that complicated really, part of CS goes to housing etc... and part to direct expenses. It can be done EASILY.





-If you are happy to pay for your ex's coach purse rather than pay for your kids then we're clearly not on the same page and I would arguye that 99% of people would disagree with you. In fact I'd rather flush the money down the toilet than my ex spend it on herself - just as a matter of principle on really being divorced.
-It doesn;t have to be thousands, she provides annual accounting. If it is faulty you go to court the same way people go fo S7 expenses and everything else. Except child support is A much bigger ticket item.


The reality is this - child support is a wealth transfer. Concerned, there are tonnes of people that agree with you but you need to make a movement out of it. Also you need to find out statistically is this really a problem. I think most people earn like 35k or less and CS is probably not enough.
You obviously hate your ex more than you love your kids if you would rather flush money away than give them the benefit of the ex having a few extra bucks in her account.

My child is well taken care of. That is all I care about. [edit] The ex buying a coach purse with the few bucks she has left over from my c/s isn't an issue for me. It simply isn't worth wasting my time over.

If you want to ensure that every nickel you provide is spent on your kid, you have control issues.

Last edited by HammerDad; 04-09-2014 at 04:09 PM.
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  #26 (permalink)  
Old 04-09-2014, 04:12 PM
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Originally Posted by DowntroddenDad View Post
Two small kids need a place to sleep. They need a place that has electricity, water, realistically cable and internet. They may need a parent with a car to drive them places. They need many things more than just food and clothes.
Really?! .... I didn't know that, but thanks for clarification, very helpful.

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  #27 (permalink)  
Old 04-09-2014, 04:15 PM
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You obviously hate your ex more than you love your kids if you would rather flush money away than give them the benefit of the ex having a few extra bucks in her account.
No that's not true otherwise I'd quit my job right now and my lazy ass useless ex would be on the street. I just dont like giving somebody I hate/dislike any benefit.



Quote:
My child is well taken care of. That is all I care about. If you want to ensure that every nickel you provide is spent on your kid, you have control issues.
False Nobility - If all you care about is your kids beink taken care of I have a suggestion go live in a cave and give your ex all your money and just keep what you need to survive because maybe she'll spend that money on your kids.

I want my kids to get the full benefit of whatever I can spend on them and my ex to get none. I don't care about a few dollars here and there but if more than 10% of CS money/Govt Benefits is going to pay for my ex then I'd be unhappy. Personally the annoyance of going through the accounting is stupid but where there are no checks & balances, there with abuse.
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Old 04-09-2014, 04:16 PM
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You obviously hate your ex more than you love your kids if you would rather flush money away than give them the benefit of the ex having a few extra bucks in her account.

My child is well taken care of. That is all I care about. [edit] The ex buying a coach purse with the few bucks she has left over from my c/s isn't an issue for me. It simply isn't worth wasting my time over.

If you want to ensure that every nickel you provide is spent on your kid, you have control issues.
Hammerdad, again, accountability has nothing to do with past or future relationships, we alll need to be held accountable.

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Old 04-09-2014, 04:16 PM
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Really?! .... I didn't know that, but thanks for clarification, very helpful.

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So assuming you knew that, why would you suggest only food and clothes. Do you not think you have an obligation to help provide shelter and other needs as well?
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Old 04-09-2014, 04:25 PM
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So assuming you knew that, why would you suggest only food and clothes. Do you not think you have an obligation to help provide shelter and other needs as well?
I just gave an example, these are the most expenses for our kids, and I would not pay for her new car, not to mention that my kids wear old clothes and so on. I feel sorry for hammerdad but definitely we're not on the same boat here.

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