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Political Issues This forum is for discussing the political aspects of divorce: reform to divorce laws, men's rights, women's rights, injustices in the divorce system, etc.

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Old 01-16-2016, 09:48 PM
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Default Toronto Doctor sues mother of his child for emotional damages ($4million)

Front page of the Toronto Star today:

Doctor sues mother of his child for emotional damages | Toronto Star

Here is the link to the case on CanLII:

https://www.canlii.org/en/on/onsc/do...&resultIndex=1

comments??
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Old 01-16-2016, 10:02 PM
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Just further evidence that one individual should not take another individual's word for something when they barely know one another. It doesn't matter what the situation is. Always be aware of what the worst case scenario may be if the person turns out to have been lying, and make responsible decisions accordingly.

Why is that so hard?
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Old 01-16-2016, 10:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rioe View Post
Just further evidence that one individual should not take another individual's word for something when they barely know one another. It doesn't matter what the situation is. Always be aware of what the worst case scenario may be if the person turns out to have been lying, and make responsible decisions accordingly.
This type of thing just increases gender warfare.. How sad. Her absolute sureness to not get an abortion implies it was a setup.
Quote:
Why is that so hard?
It is hard because until you learn about family law you see no reason why a woman would lie to you to have your baby. As a high earner he has basically secured her lifestyle for the next 25 years and she just opened the legal floodgates for every woman to do it.

Last edited by blinkandimgone; 01-17-2016 at 12:52 PM. Reason: edited for clarity on quotes
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Old 01-17-2016, 02:47 PM
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If a man is having sex with a woman without using a condom, he's running the risk that a baby will result. This is not exactly rocket science. Either use a condominium don't have sex.

This complaint of "emotional damage" reminds me of someone suing the police for the "emotional damage" incurred by driving drunk and getting check-stopped. Yes, it would be distressing and embarrassing to have a DUI on one's record, but it's completely within one's power to avoid this situation.

And as for the "she should get an abortion" argument - I think most people (especially medical doctors) are aware that babies grow inside women's bodies, and you can't force other people to undergo invasive bodily procedures for your convenience. So once again - use a condom, or don't have sex, or accept that there's a risk that a baby might result.
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Old 01-17-2016, 03:06 PM
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Originally Posted by stripes View Post
If a man is having sex with a woman without using a condom, he's running the risk that a baby will result. This is not exactly rocket science. Either use a condominium don't have sex. .
You miss the part where he was told she was on the pill right and she wasn't actually on the pill.

It's fraud which will cost this guy tonnes of money over his life.
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Old 01-17-2016, 03:54 PM
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No, I didn't miss that part. The guy chose to take this woman's word about something he couldn't see rather than taking a simple step - wrap it! - which would have protected him. The pill is also not 100% - it's entirely possible she was using it and this was an "oops".

It's like buying a used car for cash from some dude on Kijiji who assures you there are no mechanical issues at all, and then finding out the brakes don't work. Yes, the seller shouldn't have lied to you, but you also shouldn't have put yourself in the position where you rely on the word of a non-objective party just because you really want the cheap car that he wants to sell you. This doctor used poor judgment, he took a risk, and now there's a baby.
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Old 01-17-2016, 04:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stripes View Post
No, I didn't miss that part. The guy chose to take this woman's word about something he couldn't see rather than taking a simple step - wrap it! - which would have protected him. The pill is also not 100% - it's entirely possible she was using it and this was an "oops".

It's like buying a used car for cash from some dude on Kijiji who assures you there are no mechanical issues at all, and then finding out the brakes don't work. Yes, the seller shouldn't have lied to you, but you also shouldn't have put yourself in the position where you rely on the word of a non-objective party just because you really want the cheap car that he wants to sell you. This doctor used poor judgment, he took a risk, and now there's a baby.
how did he know even if he could trust her??? I didn't read the article but wasn't he thinking about catching a STD? He should of wore a condom.

As for Links implying that she refused to get an abortion so it is automatically a set-up..not everyone believes in abortions and she may be pro-life, that is her choice. Everyone should be responsible for their own birth control if they don't want to have the end result of a pregnancy. She may have been on the pill but antibiotics also which makes the pill ineffective. Bottom line, the guy (being a doctor)should of been smarter and made sure that there would be no pregnancy by doing what he could to prevent it.
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Old 01-17-2016, 04:33 PM
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I agree he should have wrapped it. Whether she lied about the pill or not, he did not take appropriate steps to make sure his little men didn't travel. As a doctor surely he knows the pill isn't always effective.

Links, why should she have to get an abortion? He knew what could possibly happen when he had sex with her. Clearly they were just looking for some quick action seeing as it was the second date they had sex and the first date they partook in serial encounters.

'[10]** ** ** **PP*is a 42-year-old medical doctor.*DD*is a 37-year-old medical practitioner. In May 2014, at the suggestion of a mutual friend, they began to date. Their first date was on May 14, 2014, and there was consensual sexual activity but no sexual intercourse.

[11]** ** ** **Their second date was on May 17, 2014, and as described in paragraph 6 of*PP’s Statement of Claim, this date included sexual intercourse.*'



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Old 01-17-2016, 09:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stripes View Post
No, I didn't miss that part. The guy chose to take this woman's word about something he couldn't see rather than taking a simple step - wrap it! - which would have protected him. The pill is also not 100% - it's entirely possible she was using it and this was an "oops".
1. Sex with condom is not the same as sex without, so if I had the choice I would prefer without. So saying "just wrap it" isn't recognizing that it reduces the experience by some significant amount.

2. I am not blaming her for getting pregnant, if she had been on the pill and gotten pregnant, there is no fault.

3. If she thought she was on the pill but forgot then that's ok.

4. In this situation it seems like a given she PERFECTLY well knew that she was't on the pill but represented she was.

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It's like buying a used car for cash from some dude on Kijiji who assures you there are no mechanical issues at all, and then finding out the brakes don't work.
It's actually not the same for a few reasons"
a) because you can do an "inspection" to validate the brakes are or not defective. You can take a reasonable non-invasive action to ascertain that whereas you cannot do the same with birth control.
b) Its more like when you buy a home with a "hidden defect" something that couldn't be found by an inspection. In Quebec law for cars and homes you are protected against a hidden defect.
c) However, this case is a person who PURPOSEFULLY misrepresents something and the costs that it later results you in incurring.


Quote:
Originally Posted by stripes View Post
Yes, the seller shouldn't have lied to you, but you also shouldn't have put yourself in the position where you rely on the word of a non-objective party just because you really want the cheap car that he wants to sell you. This doctor used poor judgment, he took a risk, and now there's a baby.
This reminds me of telling women not to tell women dress proactively to not get raped. Sure you are right, he should be more suspicious but everybody has the right to recourse against somebody who commits a fault against them whether it is assault or a fraud.



Quote:
how did he know even if he could trust her??? I didn't read the article but wasn't he thinking about catching a STD? He should of wore a condom.
-We agree he is stupid but that is no excuse not to punish fraud. (i.e: do we not punish the rapist for raping the drunk half naked girl putting herself at risk?)


Quote:
As for Links implying that she refused to get an abortion so it is automatically a set-up..not everyone believes in abortions and she may be pro-life, that is her choice. Everyone should be responsible for their own birth control if they don't want to have the end result of a pregnancy. She may have been on the pill but antibiotics also which makes the pill ineffective. Bottom line, the guy (being a doctor)should of been smarter and made sure that there would be no pregnancy by doing what he could to prevent it.
-I think the case pretty much confirms she was NOT even on the pill (that's the whole problem) - this isn't a case about getting "Accidentally" pregnant.
-As for my theory about her planning this - I will explain why. This is a woman who is 39yrs old, she has sex on the second date and the regularly, unprotected (knowingly as opposed to him). How is it possible that she has no children with this time of sexual practice and never had an abortion? Yes, its possible this is the first time she did this or x, y and z but what is more likely? Furthermore, I would put forward that being pro-life is negative correlated with being promiscuous (I have no actual proof but I think it is a fair assumption).

Quote:
I agree he should have wrapped it. Whether she lied about the pill or not, he did not take appropriate steps to make sure his little men didn't travel. As a doctor surely he knows the pill isn't always effective.
-I think asking and assuming she isn't going to lie is reasonable, don't you assume people will tell you the truth? If they don't should you get legally penalized (the law is what will make him pay child support for the next 25 years).
-The pill is 99.9% effective from what I understand - but that's not even in the issue (as I mentioned earlier)

Quote:
Links, why should she have to get an abortion? He knew what could possibly happen when he had sex with her. Clearly they were just looking for some quick action seeing as it was the second date they had sex and the first date they partook in serial encounters.
-I've been considering recently how a woman alone has the right to abort or not a child. Intuitively, it feels like it should be a woman's right alone but with the child support regime it seems unfair that a man is legally required to take responsibilty for something that is a woman's decision alone. In any case, I don't put forward that she HAD to get an abortion, that's besides the point.

-Theoretically, he knew there a 0.01% chance that she got pregnant (prob even less considering a woman's fertility at 37 is lower). He had sex based on the statistic but that was;t the truth.




As a general rule: Don't you believe that if somebody intentionally lies to you and makes you incur any cost/penalty that you would NOT have incurred if they hadn't committed that fraud that they should be responsible? What would society be if fraud wasn't penalized in every other forum? As a society shouldn't even honest naive people be protected from dishonest people? Doesn't everybody believe that?
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Old 01-17-2016, 10:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Links17 View Post
Sex with condom is not the same as sex without, so if I had the choice I would prefer without. So saying "just wrap it" isn't recognizing that it reduces the experience by some significant amount.
So the increased chance of pregnancy and having to rely on the word of a stranger is the price he paid for that increased sensation. Turns out the price was at the steep end of the range!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Links17 View Post
-I've been considering recently how a woman alone has the right to abort or not a child. Intuitively, it feels like it should be a woman's right alone but with the child support regime it seems unfair that a man is legally required to take responsibilty for something that is a woman's decision alone. In any case, I don't put forward that she HAD to get an abortion, that's besides the point.
The man's choice over fertility happens at intercourse. The woman has more choices before and after.

Quote:
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As a general rule: Don't you believe that if somebody intentionally lies to you and makes you incur any cost/penalty that you would NOT have incurred if they hadn't committed that fraud that they should be responsible? What would society be if fraud wasn't penalized in every other forum? As a society shouldn't even honest naive people be protected from dishonest people? Doesn't everybody believe that?
And I do understand your point. She apparently committed fraud, he has been damaged as a result, and she is getting off scott free. Unfortunately, because there is another life involved, it's not as simple for a judge to penalize her as it would be if she had just swindled him of money some other way.

He has to pay CS for the child; it's the child's right to be supported by both parents. And it harms the child to have the mother jailed or fined. A judge is really caught between a rock and a hard place, and generally chooses the best solution for the child.

I really dream of a day when men and women have reliable birth control (and USE it) and every child is wanted by all parents.
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