Spousal Support - Why It Matters

[houston]

Hi I understand the law and what is right and wrong
regarding this gentleman let not forget fact that half of the daycare would be her responsibility , if she was working , full time out of the house .
What about when your X is collecting child ( kids living with Father full time without hearing from the mother at all,and spousal support) (while she is living full time with a boyfriend as come-law for over 3 years ) and court keeps telling you to keep paying till a new order is made by the courts
THAT IS HARD ISN'T IT?
I do feel for Parents male or female who gets screwed be the system
\THIS IS NOT FARE
And now still in court when she wants spousal support (so i have to support Her and Her Boyfriend?
I can hardly support myself and my kids, I work hard to raise my kids (kids are our joy of life)
NOT to support others that refuse to find full time work

THAT HURTSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS OUCH

[MommaBear73]

Originally Posted by blinkandimgone

So 'real' work is only qualified by having a boss and timelines?

Daycare workers do a alot of the same things as stay-at-home parents minus the housework and real parenting responsibilities, however they get to clock out at 5:00 when all the kids go home.

Stay-at-home parents don't, they parent 24/7, manage the household, doctor, dentist, school, volunteering and all the other responsibilities that go along with being a parent as opposed to a daycare worker.

But parenting isn't considered 'real work' and daycare worker is?

Consider the cost of what you'd have paid for a nanny/daycare, housekeeper, chauffeur etc to do all the things a typical stay at home parent does and then tell me there is no value to the work one does as a stay at home parent.

All the stay at home parents of the world thank you Very well said.

[AnarX]

If you can not get fired at the job, it is nonsense to make an equivalence with any other job where you can get fired.

Originally Posted by blinkandimgone

Consider the cost of what you'd have paid for a nanny/daycare, housekeeper, chauffeur etc to do all the things a typical stay at home parent does and then tell me there is no value to the work one does as a stay at home parent.

... and then compare it to the cost of firing a bad spouse.
Hiring a nanny, a chauffeur, an escort, etc. may actually be cheaper with the added bonus of accountable service.

[blinkandimgone]

So a union job isn't a real job? Good to know, or as they say 'Tell it to my union.....'

[AnarX]

..... still probably cheaper than firing a bad spouse.
Your union example is pretty funny, come to think of it. You are providing evidence of how a non-fireable job is too expensive. That is my point.

Regardless, I never said that it is not a real job. You are reading what you want to read. I said that making an equivalence with other jobs is nonsense.

It makes as much sense as making an equivalence between eye doctors and witch doctors because they are both doctors. Then again, we are dealing with rules that were created by lawyers....

[NoRegret]

Originally Posted by Divorcemanagement

I closed a previous thread about child support because it had morphed into a discussion about spousal support. There were some very heated exchanges which are always a good thing because they help each of us understand why we feel so strongly about the issue.

Some people believe that it is a lifetime pension and some don't - generally those who oppose spousal support oppose it because they often don't recognize the value of the contributions of stay-at-home parents to a spouse's career.

I deal with spousal support a lot and I have heard probably every conceivable objection to it. Some are legitimate and some are downright unrealistic. So I thought it might be helpful to share an experience I had with a couple.

It was a 23 year marriage - the children were now grown. Mom had stayed home for the first 10 years raising the children and then worked part-time for the remaining 10 years. Dad worked in a very high profile job and had an affair, thus ending the marriage.

When the marriage ended, mom went to work full time as an administrative clerk and dad fought her tooth and nail on spousal. He suggested that she wasn't entitled to spousal support because she was living "rent free" in the now paid off matrimonial home. Mom rightly suggested that she wasn't living rent free because she owned half of the house. (A valid point, wouldn't you agree?)

Dad was unprepared to pay spousal support beyond 3 years - a completely unrealistic time frame. It looked like both parties were going to be headed off to court when they decided to give mediation a try.

In the mediation process, dad was adament - HE didn't "force" her to stay home and raise the kids and he didn't agree to it... why should he be penalized for mom's choice to stay home. Mom took great offense, so I suggested that it would be difficult to justify not paying spousal support were he to litigate the matter based solely on the fact that he didn't force mom to stay home and that he never agreed to something that was defacto regardless of the circumstances surrounding the decision for mom to stay home.

So we looked at his lump sum offer that he had now put on the table - $80K - "leave me alone and never ask me for a cent again." I went to my flip board and asked him how much money he felt that child care was worth. He couldn't come up with a number - largely because it was a traditional marriage and he worked 15 hour days.

We decided to do some math based on a $10.00/hour day and 40 hours/week that a child care provider in a daycare might be earning. Roughly $19,200/year X 15 years that she was home with the kids= $288,000 compared to the $80,000 that he was offering to her. So in effect, he was offering her roughly $5333 for each year that she worked or $2.77/hour.

This helped dad recognize that his offer aside from being offensive to mom, was completely unrealistic and not consistent with the spousal support guidelines. So mom suggested that had they put the kids in daycare, it could be argued that they would have paid the $288,000 for 15 years worth of child care in it's various incarnations - from daycare to afterschool care to day camps, etc.

Dad simply felt that he shouldn't have to pay because he viewed it as his money rather than compensation. Unfortunately, we had to do a cost benefit analysis of litigation based on a less than 50% chance that he would be successful and dad realized that he wasn't a gambling man. Opted to do a hybrid approach of spousal/month and a lump sum.

I asked dad if he felt that mom's contribution to raising the children, caring for the home and feeding the family was worth only $2.00/hour - "that's about $5.00/hour less than you would be paying a nanny or a housekeeper - do you really want to go to court with this?" I said.

Reason prevailed and an agreement was reached. Dad was resentful of having to pay but realized that he had to pay lest he go to court and be forced to pay.

Moral of the story - stay-at-home parents are undervalued in our society. One need only look at the furor over the Conservative governments proposed child care package to see that how it polarizes people. I am a realist and spousal support, aside from being compensatory, must also recognize the limitations that primarily women face when re-entering the workforce after having stayed home with the kids for a lengthy period.

I have heard every argument against spousal support - and save for short term marriages, it is a necessity for parents who stayed home and lost out on opportunities they would otherwise have received. It's not enough to argue that you never agreed that they should stay home - that they stayed home implies that it was consentual and as such, spousal support should be paid.

I would be interested in hearing from people who are receiving spousal support before the spousal support guidelines came out as to whether they think the guidelines are helpful or harmful - I have heard they are undervaluing mom's contribution from many women.

Thoughts?

I agree with this. Even though I have no kids I know how much it costs as someone I used to work with always complained about it