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  Ottawa Divorce .com Forums > Main Category > Political Issues

Political Issues This forum is for discussing the political aspects of divorce: reform to divorce laws, men's rights, women's rights, injustices in the divorce system, etc.

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  #11 (permalink)  
Old 11-01-2013, 12:52 PM
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If is a long term marriage, (which I believe is over 20 years), and a woman hasn't worked, (and her husband by virtue of staying with her has accepted this), then I believe she is entitled for SS. It really doesn't fly when he says, well I didnt agree for her to stay at home, when 29 years of marriage has passed.
Just on a side note, why is it presumed that the Male is paying SS, I personally know of situations when the woman is paying SS, and the same rules apply.
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Old 11-01-2013, 12:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oink View Post
Amen to this, especially seeing that it's coming from a female. I can see those mom you speak of now, causing you through the roof.....but I also know that you don't care either

You are hurting their feelings woman....be gentle

Why is a Mom's job to teach, isn't it a parents job to set examples for their childrem??? Do you live in the dark ages,, ummm don't answer that, your posts are self-explanatory.
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Old 11-01-2013, 01:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by momforever1956 View Post
If is a long term marriage, (which I believe is over 20 years), and a woman hasn't worked, (and her husband by virtue of staying with her has accepted this), then I believe she is entitled for SS. It really doesn't fly when he says, well I didnt agree for her to stay at home, when 29 years of marriage has passed.
Just on a side note, why is it presumed that the Male is paying SS, I personally know of situations when the woman is paying SS, and the same rules apply.
True i I know of one also, they should limit SS or eliminate it period.
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Old 11-01-2013, 01:15 PM
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If one person has been out of the workforce for years, it is appropriate to give them support to allow them to retrain or find employment. This should be time limited, I can't see a case for more than 3-4 years as that's enough time to do an entire undergraduate degree if you didn't when you were younger.

For example, my ex has two university degrees, she has 5 years of work experience, she was only out of the work force for 2 years at the end of the six year marriage. I considered it reasonable to allow her one year of support to adjust to her circumstances and find employment and child care.

However, she didn't want to return to work, accused (and still accuses me regularly) that "forcing" her to work hurts our son. To avoid court I gave her the SSAG amount and duration which thankfully has ended now after 3 years.
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Old 11-01-2013, 01:19 PM
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One concern I have is that I get the feeling that SS is awarded regardless of entitlement in the case of 50/50 shared custody to achieve a balancing of income.

I don't agree with this - CS and SS should be separate.

Also, SS should be calculated FIRST, and then CS calculated, not the other way around as it is done. SS should be determined the same whether you have kids or not, and then the CS based on resultant income after SS.

Last edited by billm; 11-01-2013 at 01:31 PM.
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Old 11-01-2013, 01:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by momforever1956 View Post
Why is a Mom's job to teach, isn't it a parents job to set examples for their childrem??? Do you live in the dark ages,, ummm don't answer that, your posts are self-explanatory.
Who can teach a girl become a self sufficient woman better than a self sufficient woman?
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Old 11-01-2013, 01:28 PM
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I think SS should only be compensatory and not needs based.

It should be determined using a business like attitude - meaning that one should be compensated for sacrifices for the 'business' including if one was the wind beneath the others wings to help the other's career (directly). The sacrifice or benefit has to continue past the end of the marriage and thus compensation is fair.

The idea that one is entitled to money because of difference income does not work for me - wasn't sharing that higher income during marriage enough??

My only problem with 'business like' compensation for effects that last past the end of the marriage, is what if the higher income earner did the sacrificing and the lower did not? Does that mean that the lower pays the higher? This seems wrong, yet in a business model, it would not. Not sure how to deal with that conflict of thought.

Maybe the solution is that no SS is ever awarded unless there is an explicit agreement between the parties - ie we are all adults and responsible for our own decisions, including sacrificing career. If you quit your job, you need to make an agreement with your spouse about what happens if the marriage ends. Prenups should be required perhaps

Last edited by billm; 11-01-2013 at 01:31 PM.
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Old 11-01-2013, 02:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oink View Post
Moms and daughters.......see where am going with this? Am sure you have seen and heard stories of the moms letting the daughters getting away with stuff, and as a dad you find yourself boxed into a corner i.e. mother - daughter bond

You actually think any dad will teach their daughter(s) to rely on some guy to feed them, i.e. raising them to feel entitled and potential SS claimants?

"dark ages" has you written all over it if you do
Happens all the time, thus the expression: "Daddy's little girl..."
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Old 11-01-2013, 02:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oink View Post
Moms and daughters.......see where am going with this? Am sure you have seen and heard stories of the moms letting the daughters getting away with stuff, and as a dad you find yourself boxed into a corner i.e. mother - daughter bond

You actually think any dad will teach their daughter(s) to rely on some guy to feed them, i.e. raising them to feel entitled and potential SS claimants?

"dark ages" has you written all over it if you do
My experience with the mother/daughter bond is that it isn't as strong as you think. Many teenage girls rebel against their mothers. Mine haven't gone quite that far, but they are telling me about battles they have had with their mom, because they haven't had that issue with their dad. It isn't that I am a permissive dad at all. I've seen similar behaviour in girls who come from well grounded two parent families.
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Old 11-01-2013, 02:37 PM
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Are there no men at all that receive spousal support?

The indvidual dynamics of a relationship are so different, I'm not sure that spousal support could be looked at in any other way than individually.

What if the dynamics of the relationship were such that both parties agreed to one staying home throughout the relationship even though they have equivalent education and incomes? These types of agreements are made, yet often completely forgotten when it comes to determining who's entitled to what after splitting.

The entitlement of spousal support should be based on the dynamics of that relationship, the terms by which two parties came together and formed a family at one point.

I wonder if all those that hate paying support and have nasty things to say about the ex's that receive the support all knew that their spouse was uneducated when they chose to marry them?

It's like there's this expectation that people do a 360 and change complely now they're separated. I mean, Oink didn't you know your spouse was uneducated? Didn't her habits, debts, spending patterns, etc, etc, tell you exactly how this person would be after you split? I know it's all utopia in the beginning, but seriously now?? It's like people are surprised by their former partner's lack of education or career pursuits.
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