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Political Issues This forum is for discussing the political aspects of divorce: reform to divorce laws, men's rights, women's rights, injustices in the divorce system, etc.

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  #101 (permalink)  
Old 09-30-2013, 10:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Berner_Faith View Post
I have a question for everyone here...

What would the response be if the OP DID lose his job because he decided to stay and thus had to take a MUCH lower paying job? Would the ex be able to impute an income on him? If he lives in a small town, we all know jobs in small towns are hard to come by, so if he lost an $80k job to take say a $50k job and keep his 50-50 custody, how likely would it be for an income to be imputed?

What do Judges think is more important? Time spent with children or money spent on children?

I don't think one should be put down due to the decision to keep a high paying job, because it seems that incomes are imputed all the time, as he would not technically be working to his full potential.

Also, it is easy to say that one should focus on their first family before they get involved with someone else, but it is totally different when you live that reality. The costs for a NCP are often the same or MORE than the CP.

For my partner and I, we only have his kids EOW and some extended Holidays, however when we purchased a house, we had to purchase one with 3 bedrooms, as he has a boy and girl ages 8 and 5 and it was not appropriate they shared a bedroom, especially since they were getting older. Because we had to purchase a 3 bedroom house, our mortgage is more expensive, but cheaper than what we were paying for a 3 bedroom apartment we rented for 2 years.

Even though we only have the children EOW, it doesn't change out mortgage, property tax, hydro, cable, cell phone, ect payments. The only thing that cost more is food for the weekends we have the children, but even that is barely any more expensive. So we are still providing a 3 bedroom house to house the children 4 nights a month and the ex provides a 3 bedroom house for 26 nights a month. Our average monthly expense are basically equal, but our disposable income doesn't even come close.

We live about 2 hours from the children, we wish we could move closer, but the reality is, we would be leaving GOOD paying jobs, for minimum wage jobs, so the question remains... what trumps the other? Time, or money?
Alas...someone with an open mind...and similar situation?


In our case either I had to leave a small town and kids to keep my job (and by the way my income is not 80 grand, it's well into the 6 figures) or my new wife would have had to leave her govt job and kids...it made more sense for me to leave because both of us work closer to where we live now. Originally she was going to move to the small town but when the ex started making things more and more difficult for me with the kids I decided to make that decision.


Yes, people do have to move forward with their lives and even children need to adjust...again, I understood that I would have to pay child support but I did not expect that the amount would be so ridiculously high (considering she does very well for herself as well) and that she can literally do whatever she wants with that money.


I know I could give my kids a lot more if I had that extra money at my disposal, but my hands are tied.
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  #102 (permalink)  
Old 09-30-2013, 10:53 PM
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Originally Posted by Pursuinghappiness View Post
All things being equal between parents...personally, I would say time but that's me.

Its definitely possible to simply prove that you have a decreased income due to lack of certain employment opportunities. Happens every day in court. Particularly since this OP stated he was already driving 5 hours prior to moving...he had a great case to have CS reduced for a different employment opportunity. And since he's paying full-table CS now and has increased expenses...he's experienced the same loss in overall household income anyway and now has lost 50/50 access to his own children.

Add to it that this particular OP is alleging that his ex is negligent. ie..."kids are starving at her house", "she was never a good parent", "he was the nuturer", etc....so I think that makes the fact that he left the kids behind somewhat more onerous.

Of course, to each their own. Whatever you decide in life, you have to live with the consequences of your actions though.
I agree... as adults we all know that decisions have consequences and they are not always positive. I couldn't imagine leaving my partners children. We had an opportunity for me to take a higher position, but that meant relocated over 5 hours away, making us 7 hours away from the children. This promotion was a huge increase in pay and it would have certainly pushed us ahead of the game, since my income doesn't count for his CS, but it was not even discussed, I turned down the position before I even told him about it. If we could find comparable jobs closer to the children, we would jump on them, but at this time there is not.

It is easy to say that time comes first, but I think we have all seen many posters on her wondering how to impute income, they all say it is due to the ex trying to avoid CS and in some cases this may be true, but in the case of the OP, would his crazy ex be able to successfully impute an income on him ie he chose to stay?

OP- I am sure this was not an easy decision to move and I think on some level we all understand, but you also need to understand that you had something that MANY posters here, including myself, would LOVE to have. For those people who are fighting for equal access that fact that you had that and gave it up for money, seems like a slap in a face to those who fight every day. I don't find the CS guidelines fair at all, my partner's ex gets over 25% of his pay a month, we are doing okay financially, his CS will go up again next year and we will have no choice to pay it.

His ex seems to never have money for extras for the kids, but seems to have money to drive to her new bfs house every weekend, which is 2 hours away, has money to run into the liquor store every time we meet with the children (we meet in a stripe mall- not at a liquor store) We are told by the children that they eat out all the time and that at school they are hungry, but I also know that when they are with us and we make a big meal and they eat it all, an hour later they are STARVING and even though we have a huge fridge and 2 freezers full of food, we have NOTHING to eat. Heck those kids have every flavour of Jammers and juice boxes overflowing the cupboard, but we also have nothing to drink.

Kids say crazy things and it is often inflated. Unless your children are actually suffering, stop wasting your energy trying to analyze what your ex does.
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  #103 (permalink)  
Old 09-30-2013, 11:00 PM
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I believe it would of been a battle. Based on situations that male friends and colleagues are in and where they are located.
You might be right. In my opinion, its still a battle worth having. Of course, I'm biased because I fought hard to ensure my parental rights...so there's no way I'd give them up. My priority will always be my children.

Quote:
Originally she was going to move to the small town but when the ex started making things more and more difficult for me with the kids I decided to make that decision.
Many ex's make co-parenting extremely challenging...its commonplace on this forum. They usually try to find ways to deal with it and stick it out though.
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  #104 (permalink)  
Old 09-30-2013, 11:07 PM
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It is easy to say that time comes first, but I think we have all seen many posters on her wondering how to impute income, they all say it is due to the ex trying to avoid CS and in some cases this may be true, but in the case of the OP, would his crazy ex be able to successfully impute an income on him ie he chose to stay?
I don't know. Were the kids worth trying for though?
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  #105 (permalink)  
Old 09-30-2013, 11:15 PM
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Unfortunately, you made what we, with our greater experience, consider a number of mistakes.

You gave up 50-50 access for income. You made the stereotypically male decision and chose providing the income over providing the nurturing, even though you knew your ex was a poor nurturer. Did you know when you did it that you would have no control over how she spent the money? Even if you had lost your job because you stayed, you would have kept your 50-50 access, and she would have had to pay YOU due to the offset system. And then you chose to get involved with a woman whose own situation made things worse. Without her, you could maybe have moved because of your job but found a midpoint that was closer to your kids.

Now, you cry that the family law system is unfair and needs changing, to suit your situation. The family law system did not have anything to do with your work from home job transforming into an office job, which started your whole set of problems. The family law system did not have anything to do with you falling in love with a woman with complications for your situation.

The family law system is a huge lumbering behemoth that changes very slowly. You are better off working to find ways to help yourself within the existing system, than you are whining on a message board about how the system should be changed.

My suggestions:

Look into having your CS reduced due to your access costs. It may be difficult because you were the one who did the moving away.

Look into a claim for undue hardship. This may be difficult because your income is pretty nice from the sounds of it.

Look into moving closer to your children. What is the farthest away from your current city towards your children's town that you could feasibly move, given your fiancee's limitations due to her own children and their father? What kind of commute are you prepared to handle?

Look into increasing your access. Maybe you can negotiate for increased holiday and summer time with them, and that might be enough to tip you over into 40% and the offset system. Depending on the ages of the kids, you may meet with objection from them as they'd have to leave friends and activities more often.

Look into dumping your fiancee and job and moving back. What's your priority? Being there for your children, or being there for your new relationship? It's an awful thing to balance. Reframe the money you pay your ex as being the cost of being with your fiancee instead of the cost of supporting your children. Is she worth it?
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  #106 (permalink)  
Old 10-01-2013, 10:22 AM
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Originally Posted by Berner_Faith View Post
I agree... as adults we all know that decisions have consequences and they are not always positive.
I appreciate your viewpoint(s) and objective opinions...it's the responses that come across as angry, bitter and accusing that i don't get. Maybe that's a reflection of those individuals' personal situations and state of mind.

I was at a crossroads in my life and had to make a very difficult decision...if i stayed in that small town and my current WIFE moved there as well, we both would have lost our jobs and one of us had to give up time with our children. I have a job that is extremely specialized and not easy to find or replace...my wife has a job that she's been at for 23 years and comes with a govt pension.
Where would we have been if both of us were jobless? How could we take care of our children then?
This is not about moving to make more money...this is about having a job period.
One of us had to move so it made more sense for me to move so that both of us could keep our jobs.
I for one believe that it is ok to start over again after a marriage falls apart...everyone deserves a second chance.

My reason for coming on this site was to talk to other people who feel that the system needs some changing...i am not blaming anyone for anything. I take responsibility for my decisions and am taking care of my kids to the best of my ability, even with a difficult ex who is unco-operative to say the least.

Again, i appreciate your feedback, but for those who are on the attack...that approach is completely unnecessary.

Last edited by Mess; 10-01-2013 at 08:17 PM. Reason: To fix quote
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  #107 (permalink)  
Old 10-01-2013, 10:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rioe View Post
Unfortunately, you made what we, with our greater experience, consider a number of mistakes.

You gave up 50-50 access for income. You made the stereotypically male decision and chose providing the income over providing the nurturing, even though you knew your ex was a poor nurturer. Did you know when you did it that you would have no control over how she spent the money? Even if you had lost your job because you stayed, you would have kept your 50-50 access, and she would have had to pay YOU due to the offset system. And then you chose to get involved with a woman whose own situation made things worse. Without her, you could maybe have moved because of your job but found a midpoint that was closer to your kids.

Now, you cry that the family law system is unfair and needs changing, to suit your situation. The family law system did not have anything to do with your work from home job transforming into an office job, which started your whole set of problems. The family law system did not have anything to do with you falling in love with a woman with complications for your situation.

The family law system is a huge lumbering behemoth that changes very slowly. You are better off working to find ways to help yourself within the existing system, than you are whining on a message board about how the system should be changed.

My suggestions:

Look into having your CS reduced due to your access costs. It may be difficult because you were the one who did the moving away.

Look into a claim for undue hardship. This may be difficult because your income is pretty nice from the sounds of it.

Look into moving closer to your children. What is the farthest away from your current city towards your children's town that you could feasibly move, given your fiancee's limitations due to her own children and their father? What kind of commute are you prepared to handle?

Look into increasing your access. Maybe you can negotiate for increased holiday and summer time with them, and that might be enough to tip you over into 40% and the offset system. Depending on the ages of the kids, you may meet with objection from them as they'd have to leave friends and activities more often.

Look into dumping your fiancee and job and moving back. What's your priority? Being there for your children, or being there for your new relationship? It's an awful thing to balance. Reframe the money you pay your ex as being the cost of being with your fiancee instead of the cost of supporting your children. Is she worth it?
Thank your for your suggestions...i will do what i can with the resources that i have, but i have no plans to "dump" my wife who also has two children of her own, and a good govt job that she would lose if she moved to this small town with me.
This was not an easy decision for US...either we both live in a small town and lose BOTH our jobs as well her losing her children, or I move out of that town away from my children and we both keep our jobs.

Anyway, i just came on this site to hopefully chat with other people in similar situations...thanks for the feedback.
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