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Political Issues This forum is for discussing the political aspects of divorce: reform to divorce laws, men's rights, women's rights, injustices in the divorce system, etc.

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  #41 (permalink)  
Old 09-07-2017, 11:02 AM
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Originally Posted by LovingFather32 View Post
So very true. We see this all the time. If a parent wants to be more involved after a separation, etc then they should have that opportunity (if circumstances permit). Parents have Crystal balls now-a-days and can tell the future it seems .. as if the child' life will be ruined or something.
The problem is that with the current emphasis on status quo, by the time you figure out that the other parent was insincere, it's near-impossible to pull them back from 50-50.

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Originally Posted by LovingFather32 View Post
There is a feminist movement right now and I back it fully. My whole life is females. But there's a fathers movement also to be more involved. I think both movements need to be taken seriously .. not just one.
It's the same movement. Equality for everyone, regardless of gender. Perhaps we should start calling ourselves gender equalitists instead of feminists, harder though it may be to say.

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Originally Posted by LovingFather32 View Post
Historically, females looked after kids more .. true. But historically, The Jewish community was brutalized. Times change. There are many stay at home fathers .. we're now allowed to cry .. we wear pink .. we play dolls. We're good parents also and should have every opportunity to be in our kids lives as much as possible. I feel like it goes without saying.
It does go without saying. That's why I didn't say it. All I mentioned was the weight of history that is still dragging us back from having it.
  #42 (permalink)  
Old 09-07-2017, 11:13 AM
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The problem is that with the current emphasis on status quo, by the time you figure out that the other parent was insincere, it's near-impossible to pull them back from 50-50.
Or .. by the time it has been revealed that they were in fact sincere ... the manufactured status quo (court delays, etc) have taken over and dad cant be an equal parent anymore.

Many parents (fathers) feel that they don't have a chance in court, whether their ex (or the ex's lawyer) tells them this or they just think they didn't breast feed so they aren't a parent. This has to change.

With automatic 50/50 following separation , we will see improvement across all domains (in general .. of course if the circumstances permit .. there will always be outliers). So much less fighting, hard feelings, etc. If it doesn't work out .. then you approach court with proof of how it isn't working.

We should be relying on the current literature caselaw, studies, etc and stop focusing on the standard deviations and outliers of the equation.

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It does go without saying. That's why I didn't say it. All I mentioned was the weight of history that is still dragging us back from having it.
Sorry, that wasn't directed to anything you typed. All of your points are relevant and true.
  #43 (permalink)  
Old 09-07-2017, 11:15 AM
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Originally Posted by Soiled View Post
There is generally more teachers than there are positions available for them. Supply and demand, too many teachers, equals less pay required to get them to work for you.
- Most police forces have to actively recruit to get new employees, also playing into supply and demand. Not enough police means you have to pay more to attract them
- If you don't pay police enough, you increase the chances of corruption.
- Police have a far more dangerous job, and on a daily basis deal with the worst our society has to offer
Exactly. Police are viewed as more valuable to society, and worthy of more pay. I also think their overtime pay works differently - as in police get some while teachers do not.

I've always felt that if we did a better job with education, spent much more in that field, then we'd eventually need less money in policing. But very off topic. As long as male and female teachers make about the same money and male and female cops make about the same money, then we're talking about a different issue.

I also believe police recruiting looks heavily at education greater than high school, such as a degree in criminology or college diploma in policing foundations, too, then gives recruits their own internal training program. It's not like they graduate high school and are patrolling the streets a month later.

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I'd be extremely interested in seeing a 5 - 10 year experiment in which child support was eliminated, and how that affected parenting plans, and the conflict between parties.
A better experiment would be to make CS less jumpy at the 40-60 access mark and more smooth throughout the whole curve. If 10% time meant getting 10% of the total table CS from both parents, 30% time meant getting 30% of the total CS, etc, then there would be a lot less fighting over time when they are really fighting over money. Equal time would happen more easily when both parents really were sincere about being involved parents.
  #44 (permalink)  
Old 09-07-2017, 11:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rioe View Post
A better experiment would be to make CS less jumpy at the 40-60 access mark and more smooth throughout the whole curve. If 10% time meant getting 10% of the total table CS from both parents, 30% time meant getting 30% of the total CS, etc, then there would be a lot less fighting over time when they are really fighting over money. Equal time would happen more easily when both parents really were sincere about being involved parents.
Probably a scenario with a far higher chance of actually happening than what I had brought up.

Unfortunately though, I think it would have the opposite of the intended effect, and result in a lot more fighting and court actions than we currently have. The squabbling and various manipulations that people do to hit the 40% mark can be insane, if you add in the possibility of being able to fight at the 10,20,30 marks as well...
  #45 (permalink)  
Old 09-07-2017, 06:10 PM
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[QUOTE=Rioe;223334]Exactly. Police are viewed as more valuable to society, and worthy of more pay. I also think their overtime pay works differently - as in police get some while teachers do not.

I've always felt that if we did a better job with education, spent much more in that field, then we'd eventually need less money in policing. But very off topic. As long as male and female teachers make about the same money and male and female cops make about the same money, then we're talking about a different issue.

This is the point I was trying to make. I do realize that police officers and teachers are apples and oranges. However I don't believe there should be such a wage discrepancy in these professions known to be geared towards certain genders. Even secondary school teachers (where there are more male teachers) make more than elementary school teachers.
If education was a priority it would likely lead to less work for the police. Just sayin'. I don't think for a second that teachers are "less valuable" than police officers. But then I'm biased. And I know that's opening a whole can of worms for a different conversation!

Wrt the joint custody studies: I can definitely agree that I'm sure these studies would show kids are more well adjusted in joint custody situations. Joint custody though could be as little as 35%. I wonder if there is a study that looks at kids who spend a lengthy time in a particular custody arrangement (like mom as primary parent) and then switch to a different one. I would be interested to see if there are any "improvements" in their well being when the 50/50 isn't occurring right from the start and is introduced years later.








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  #46 (permalink)  
Old 09-07-2017, 06:34 PM
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I think "education" needs to be directed at the legal profession. Many professionals have to take compulsory upgrading to maintain their designations. Why don't lawyers?

I read many of the above comments and what comes to mind is the simple fact that family law is typically the first and only experience people have with any sort of legal issue. People put their trust in lawyers they hire so if a lawyer tells someone "custody always goes to the stay-at-home-mom" or "don't bother fighting this" they believe this. Why shouldn't they?

Do lawyers stay up-to-date on precedent-setting cases? Dunno. some may but others may not. Often times a lawyer who represents a father is a lawyer who doesn't specialize in family law. Also, factor in the lousy "advice" people get from friends.

With this in mind, I think the problem isn't so much as a bra-burning feminist problem but rather a profession and society that simply is not up-to-date on current decisions coming out of our courts. As many have mentioned in numerous threads on this forum, CanLII isn't the end-all as it represents but a fraction of cases that are argued in court. However, CanLII is better than an ill-informed friend or a lousy lawyer.
  #47 (permalink)  
Old 09-07-2017, 07:16 PM
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I have yet to see a study that convinces me that the immediate presumption of equal 50-50 shared parenting at DOS is actually in the best interest of the child (and no amount of flaming has managed to convince me otherwise), but I continue to enjoy reading those posted.

It would seem obvious that for the most part, children will flourish when both parents are involved - and it also seems obvious that a healthy parent-child relationship post-separation can and does include any of a 30-70; 40-60; or 50-50 parenting arrangement.

The CS tables and their calculations are a nightmare - personally, we've never followed them. I don't know how to separate the $$- other than call for a new formula.

Each family is unique, and applying the “one shoe fits all” strategy post-separation is not, imo, in the ‘best interest of the child”. Everyone posting here is quite familiar with the snail-paced and expensive process of the court system. If there is extreme conflict or abuse currently within the family unit, how pray tell would the children be saved from harm while it took the existing court system 5-6 years or longer to correct? Call the CAS? Call the OCL? How did that work out for you?

Our government(s) has failed in providing swift access to our court systems, and has equally failed in providing families in crisis with help they need. We all need to be paying more taxes into the system.

Social and economic issues will need to equalize between the genders [note: if you think they have already, let me send you some dry-cleaning bill noted "his shirts vs her blouses".. (or both genders could protest tax on tampons!)]

Once equalized, perhaps we will have families establishing mothers as the financially supportive role of the family when the children are young, and have more fathers being the SAHP. Any disparity in custody arrangements between the genders will also balance.
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  #48 (permalink)  
Old 09-07-2017, 07:23 PM
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[QUOTE=arabian;223357]I think "education" needs to be directed at the legal profession. Many professionals have to take compulsory upgrading to maintain their designations. Why don't lawyers?/QUOTE]

Lawyers are mandated to complete continuing education/eligible courses, on an annual basis, in order to maintain their licence.

EA's and teachers are not. Nor, to my knowledge, are daycare providers. Who spends more time with your children?
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  #49 (permalink)  
Old 09-07-2017, 08:02 PM
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Quote:
I have yet to see a study that convinces me that the immediate presumption of equal 50-50 shared parenting at DOS is actually in the best interest of the child (and no amount of flaming has managed to convince me otherwise), but I continue to enjoy reading those posted.
I'm not surprised. But then again, I can see why this is your stance. Your posts over the years come off very bitter against male ex's and fathers in general, let alone your discontent with equal relationships.

Quote:
Each family is unique, and applying the “one shoe fits all” strategy post-separation is not, imo, in the ‘best interest of the child”.
Luckily we're using the terms "in general" and "if circumstances permit", etc.

You don't have to trust current studies, literature or caselaw .. but many here do, including myself. Anytime 50/50 is mentioned I love some posters immediate response "Its not one size fits all". Who ever said it was? Why is that always your go to? Are you running out of replies and/or ideas to back your stance?

Last edited by LovingFather32; 09-07-2017 at 08:05 PM.
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Old 09-07-2017, 08:04 PM
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oh dear.. Male Biased!!
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