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Political Issues This forum is for discussing the political aspects of divorce: reform to divorce laws, men's rights, women's rights, injustices in the divorce system, etc.

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  #11 (permalink)  
Old 08-31-2017, 04:34 PM
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Originally Posted by denbigh View Post
There will be no child development expert there. So the judge only has two differnt view points to consider, both of which will have their own bias'.
You can ask for the OCL, or hire your own private custody assessment, that will make a recommendation to the courts. These professionals are trained in social work and have studied, researched and been educated in school that children love both parents and would benefit from meaningful relationship with both of them. When there is abuse or neglect, then that it different. Absent of that, 50-50 all the way.



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Originally Posted by denbigh View Post
As far as the article, this was comparing children of divorce and amount of access/ conflict. I wonder how similar thoughts would fair in intact families and comparing those with strong relationships with children vs. parent who are checked out and not building strong relationships with children. there are most certainly times when parents are married and live in the same home, yet are still not involved, neglectful and not building strong relationships. Also another point to consider is high conflict within marriage vs high conflict out of marriage. Surely neither is very good for children, but which one is worse? A rock and a hard place for sure.

That's a very good question. There is no perfect marriage, and married parents can and often do argue and fight in front of children, and have arguments about decisions. There is actually case law on this. There is no perfection in married families, so why should the standard of perfection be applied to separated families ?

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Hood J. captured the essence of this idea in Fry v. Silkalns, supra. at p. 176: “[Children] do not live in a perfect world when they live with their parents. Why should a perfect world be the test for joint custody?”
The gender bias in the system and the war and hostiles between dads and moms ignited by the system and our "resolution orientated" judged starts out from the Old laws in Canada that would allow men to automatically have custody. Feminists changed this and the law would then rule in favour of women because they stayed home and took care of children while men would work and pay. THis has now changed with both men and women working, but the old judges in the system (many of which are starting to retire (thanks god) have these old biases embedded in their brains as that is how they were raised and what they were raised to believe is normal.

Quote:
[15] There is no issue that the children’s time with both parents should be maximized as much as possible: see s. 16(10) of the Divorce Act. It is also true that shared custody is becoming increasingly frequent, especially in light of the fact that in today’s world both parents often work and equally share care of the children.

https://www.canlii.org/en/on/onsc/do...&resultIndex=2
yes sole custody seeking, every other weekend screw job to dad access seeking, and child support seeking moms - keep hammering at shared parenting so you can maximize your control and your monthly paycheques while alienating and denying the child an equal relationship with their caring and loving father who is a gentlemen who you are sweating day in and day out to portray as a criminal because of how much you hate and can't stand him - or can't stand your child spending so much time with him because of how much you hate him.

Last edited by trinton; 08-31-2017 at 04:42 PM.
  #12 (permalink)  
Old 09-05-2017, 10:10 AM
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But the article you quoted sites that shared parenting is a minimum of 35%. You're saying it's 50-50 all the way.

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Absent of that, 50-50 all the way.
Frankly a lot of what I see on Canlii and on this board is people (mainly dads) wanting their 50% and nothing less. Whether or not this upends the children's lives, involves increased commute time, forces a parallel parenting system (which is horrible) or more time with a third-party caregiver is irrelevant to them.
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Old 09-06-2017, 10:49 AM
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Originally Posted by ensorcelled View Post
Frankly a lot of what I see on Canlii and on this board is people (mainly dads) wanting their 50% and nothing less. Whether or not this upends the children's lives, involves increased commute time, forces a parallel parenting system (which is horrible) or more time with a third-party caregiver is irrelevant to them.
Should dads want less than an equal relationship and just give up?

Have you ever thought that it's causing children even more stress fighting day and night to deny an equal relationship to the other parent rather than simply trying it out?

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forces a parallel parenting system (which is horrible)
Parallel parenting is a wonderful regime that works for many parents.

Disgruntled mothers like you are what' wrong with the system.
  #14 (permalink)  
Old 09-06-2017, 01:18 PM
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Originally Posted by LovingFather32 View Post
Should dads want less than an equal relationship and just give up?

Have you ever thought that it's causing children even more stress fighting day and night to deny an equal relationship to the other parent rather than simply trying it out?


Parallel parenting is a wonderful regime that works for many parents.

Disgruntled mothers like you are what' wrong with the system.
1-You're assuming things are 'equal'. If a mom is fighting for 50% only to never see her kids because they're with caregivers on her parenting time, but needs that % because of some overarching belief system when dad would be available to take them on a larger % basis, what's wrong with that? Do parents love their children less when make kid-centered decisions based on these realities?

I have a colleague whose 13 year old just moved in full time into his mother's house because he plays some sort of instrument and the dad lives in an apartment and for an upcoming audition he needed to practice several hours a day. Is this dad less 'equal' because his son has immediate needs that required him to move?

2-I'm just curious - you bring up equality a lot. Are you doing things outside of posting on here that would actually advance equality for women so that they would not need to do things like be SAHMs? Are you writing to your MP for universal daycare or encouraging dads to take parental leave? Are you advocating for equal pay for equal work? Are you living and breathing the equality mantra, working to break down structural barriers, or is it just Family Law specific?
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Old 09-06-2017, 01:19 PM
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Sorry, guess I came across a lil' harsh in my last sentence above.

I felt like you were trying to say that the problem is that many dads want an equal relationship and nothing less. I don't see that as a problem, although as you know its case by case.
  #16 (permalink)  
Old 09-06-2017, 01:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ensorcelled View Post
1-You're assuming things are 'equal'. If a mom is fighting for 50% only to never see her kids because they're with caregivers on her parenting time, but needs that % because of some overarching belief system when dad would be available to take them on a larger % basis, what's wrong with that?
The Right of first refusal clauses are more complex and intricate than that.

Support systems, (such as my mom and g/f) are highly regarded in family court. No offense but all mothers should be out in the workforce also when the kids are in school....which would necessitate support at times also. They wont always run to dad...its no problem to have a support system on your time.

Quote:
-I'm just curious - you bring up equality a lot. Are you doing things outside of posting on here that would actually advance equality for women so that they would not need to do things like be SAHMs? Are you writing to your MP for universal daycare or encouraging dads to take parental leave? Are you advocating for equal pay for equal work? Are you living and breathing the equality mantra, working to break down structural barriers, or is it just Family Law specific?
I talk about children's rights to have equal relationships with both parents.

It has been noted by many justices in many cases that denying access to a loving parent is tantamount to child abuse...and I agree.

No, I'm not going to fight the feminists fight for them (to answer your question). But I will encourage parents to involve the other parent as much as humanly possible in the kids life if circumstances are right .. because that's what's best for the kids in a majority of the situations.

More should follow suit.
  #17 (permalink)  
Old 09-06-2017, 02:38 PM
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Originally Posted by LovingFather32 View Post
The Right of first refusal clauses are more complex and intricate than that.

Support systems, (such as my mom and g/f) are highly regarded in family court. No offense but all mothers should be out in the workforce also when the kids are in school....which would necessitate support at times also. They wont always run to dad...its no problem to have a support system on your time.

I talk about children's rights to have equal relationships with both parents.

It has been noted by many justices in many cases that denying access to a loving parent is tantamount to child abuse...and I agree.

No, I'm not going to fight the feminists fight for them (to answer your question). But I will encourage parents to involve the other parent as much as humanly possible in the kids life if circumstances are right .. because that's what's best for the kids in a majority of the situations.

More should follow suit.
You're not answering the questions.

I said if one parent is available on a higher % than the other, for whatever reason, does it not make sense for the child(ren) to have more consistent care with that parent? I'm not asking you what the courts say, I'm asking you what makes sense and what is reasonable.


Also? This

Quote:
No, I'm not going to fight the feminists fight for them (to answer your question).
is absurd.

You realise it's because of feminism that 50-50, change tables in men's bathrooms, parental (not maternity) leave exists, right? You realise that women cannot do this fight alone and that we have a long way to go before 'equality' (in family law, or elsewhere) is achieved? If you're going to sit on your hands and pine for 'the childrun!!!' when arguing your case you are missing the entire reason how we got here in the first place?

And I seriously laughed out loud when you suggested that all of us trucking back to the workforce once the kids are in school. Study after study has shown that re-entering the workforce after years away doesn't give you anywhere near the same salary, position or network you had before you left and those things can take years to build back up (if you're lucky).
Whatever you're smoking, please pass it along. I wish I lived in the fantasy world you seem to think women are both the problem and solution to.
  #18 (permalink)  
Old 09-06-2017, 03:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ensorcelled View Post
You're not answering the questions.

I said if one parent is available on a higher % than the other, for whatever reason, does it not make sense for the child(ren) to have more consistent care with that parent? I'm not asking you what the courts say, I'm asking you what makes sense and what is reasonable.


Also? This



is absurd.

You realise it's because of feminism that 50-50, change tables in men's bathrooms, parental (not maternity) leave exists, right? You realise that women cannot do this fight alone and that we have a long way to go before 'equality' (in family law, or elsewhere) is achieved? If you're going to sit on your hands and pine for 'the childrun!!!' when arguing your case you are missing the entire reason how we got here in the first place?

And I seriously laughed out loud when you suggested that all of us trucking back to the workforce once the kids are in school. Study after study has shown that re-entering the workforce after years away doesn't give you anywhere near the same salary, position or network you had before you left and those things can take years to build back up (if you're lucky).
Whatever you're smoking, please pass it along. I wish I lived in the fantasy world you seem to think women are both the problem and solution to.
My mother, grandma, aunt .. all women in my life had children then returned to the workforce.

We're not 1940 .. relax. Also, I never said women were a problem. You're twisting.
  #19 (permalink)  
Old 09-06-2017, 04:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LovingFather32 View Post
Disgruntled mothers like you are what' wrong with the system.
Disgusting, simplistic personal attack on what is a complicated, detailed problem.

Quote:
Originally Posted by LovingFather32 View Post
Also, I never said women were a problem. You're twisting.
Oh right! You didn't say that "women" were a problem, just disgruntled mothers.
  #20 (permalink)  
Old 09-06-2017, 05:25 PM
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Yes, you did (not sure if you see mothers as women but I do)

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Disgruntled mothers like you are what' wrong with the system.
Quote:
My mother, grandma, aunt .. all women in my life had children then returned to the workforce.

We're not 1940 .. relax. Also, I never said women were a problem. You're twisting.
Awesome. Did they make the same amount as the men in their lives? Did they have benefits, pensions, flexible work hours, career trajectories and all the nice things that come when you've been at the workforce for a long stretch and can command these things? My mother also worked but with a special needs child and a husband on shift work her career options were very limited. If they had split up she would have been even more screwed.

Not everyone lives in Ottawa where government jobs and benefits are aplenty. And women, even working women, fare worse off in divorce https://www.theatlantic.com/business...ce-gap/480333/

If you're not advocating for equality from the start (as in, when the kids are babies), then your arguments are moot. All of them. Unless there are structural options in place (e.g. affordable, quality daycare starting at 12 months) and you can show me that you've pressed for them, then you really don't stand behind any form of equality. You can wax poetic about how you stayed up until 3am plotting to get your daughter but for the rest of 'us', this is represents only a small slice of the problem.
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